Barbarian/Druid [Archive] - Wizards Community

Barbarian/Druid [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
mobius2702
01-15-07, 07:39 PM First off, greetings to all of you.

Now, the question:

When a druid/barbarian wildshapes into say a bear, per the errata, his hit points do not change, regardless of the bear's CON score.

Then, while in bear form, the druid gets very angry and rages.

What happens to his hit points?

Do they increase 2 hp/level, as per normal barbarian rules?
Or does the CON score effect the Bear Form only, and the bonus hit points are lost?

After providing interpretation on that, here's another twister...

War Shapers Morphic Body also applies a +4 to CON while in alternate form. Is there a hp bonus to this?

Of course, this leads to the combination question... raging and morphic body, and bear's endurance cast on a wild-shaped druid, for that matter.

And please, oh please... I understand all about how the wild shape rules are unclear. In some cases downright silly. Still broken/nerfed beyond recognition. This is not meant to rehash that whole discussion.

Just wondering, with the rules and errata as it is, how these combos work.

Thanks.
Nephlite
01-15-07, 07:50 PM First off, greetings to all of you.

Now, the question:

When a druid/barbarian wildshapes into say a bear, per the errata, his hit points do not change, regardless of the bear's CON score.

Then, while in bear form, the druid gets very angry and rages.

What happens to his hit points?

Do they increase 2 hp/level, as per normal barbarian rules?
Or does the CON score effect the Bear Form only, and the bonus hit points are lost?

After providing interpretation on that, here's another twister...

War Shapers Morphic Body also applies a +4 to CON while in alternate form. Is there a hp bonus to this?

Of course, this leads to the combination question... raging and morphic body, and bear's endurance cast on a wild-shaped druid, for that matter.

And please, oh please... I understand all about how the wild shape rules are unclear. In some cases downright silly. Still broken/nerfed beyond recognition. This is not meant to rehash that whole discussion.

Just wondering, with the rules and errata as it is, how these combos work.

Thanks.

Coorect.
Adding amulet of health to bear also improves Con by that amount.
Even bettr buy two. One human sized and one bear sized: you get both by RAW with new rules (weird as that sounds) because first melds into bear but still upper Con before changfe so you work off that con foir health. add second one which improves the new con.

It works, but it takes more time since you need someone to put amulet on as bear.
Thomas_Covenant
01-15-07, 07:51 PM Thinking about the RAW in this case gives me unpleasant tremors, but Rage works ok.

Rage (Ex): A barbarian can fly into a rage a certain number of times per day. In a rage, a barbarian temporarily gains a +4 bonus to Strength, a +4 bonus to Constitution, and a +2 morale bonus on Will saves, but he takes a –2 penalty to Armor Class. The increase in Constitution increases the barbarian’s hit points by 2 points per level, but these hit points go away at the end of the rage when his Constitution score drops back to normal. (These extra hit points are not lost first the way temporary hit points are.) Emphasis mine.
So, Rage still gives hps like it logically should, because it outright says it does.

For War Shaper, you could honestly argue either way at this point.
I think the RAW leans towards *NOT* increasing Hps, which is quite stupid.

As a DM or Player, I don't care too much, because I can't imagine the RAW being followed for this case.
Strict RAW, it is very possible none of the other cases increase Hps.
mobius2702
01-15-07, 08:05 PM Thinking about the RAW in this case gives me unpleasant tremors, but Rage works ok.

Emphasis mine.
So, Rage still gives hps like it logically should, because it outright says it does.

Thanks for the rage insight. I re-read that entry many times, but had my blinders on for some reason.

For War Shaper, you could honestly argue either way at this point.
I think the RAW leans towards *NOT* increasing Hps, which is quite stupid.

As a DM or Player, I don't care too much, because I can't imagine the RAW being followed for this case.
Strict RAW, it is very possible none of the other cases increase Hps.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that's what I figured. Our DM is very RAW-oriented, which is ok by me since we're all on a level playing field in that regard. But where RAW is somewhat vague and/or makes no sense at all, it's good to have some back-up to quote as I hash this out with him prior to our session.

Thanks for the input.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mobius2702 01-15-07, 07:39 PM	First off, greetings to all of you. Now, the question: When a druid/barbarian wildshapes into say a bear, per the errata, his hit points do not change, regardless of the bear's CON score. Then, while in bear form, the druid gets very angry and rages. What happens to his hit points? Do they increase 2 hp/level, as per normal barbarian rules? Or does the CON score effect the Bear Form only, and the bonus hit points are lost? After providing interpretation on that, here's another twister... War Shapers Morphic Body also applies a +4 to CON while in alternate form. Is there a hp bonus to this? Of course, this leads to the combination question... raging and morphic body, and bear's endurance cast on a wild-shaped druid, for that matter. And please, oh please... I understand all about how the wild shape rules are unclear. In some cases downright silly. Still broken/nerfed beyond recognition. This is not meant to rehash that whole discussion. Just wondering, with the rules and errata as it is, how these combos work. Thanks.
Nephlite 01-15-07, 07:50 PM	First off, greetings to all of you. Now, the question: When a druid/barbarian wildshapes into say a bear, per the errata, his hit points do not change, regardless of the bear's CON score. Then, while in bear form, the druid gets very angry and rages. What happens to his hit points? Do they increase 2 hp/level, as per normal barbarian rules? Or does the CON score effect the Bear Form only, and the bonus hit points are lost? After providing interpretation on that, here's another twister... War Shapers Morphic Body also applies a +4 to CON while in alternate form. Is there a hp bonus to this? Of course, this leads to the combination question... raging and morphic body, and bear's endurance cast on a wild-shaped druid, for that matter. And please, oh please... I understand all about how the wild shape rules are unclear. In some cases downright silly. Still broken/nerfed beyond recognition. This is not meant to rehash that whole discussion. Just wondering, with the rules and errata as it is, how these combos work. Thanks. Coorect. Adding amulet of health to bear also improves Con by that amount. Even bettr buy two. One human sized and one bear sized: you get both by RAW with new rules (weird as that sounds) because first melds into bear but still upper Con before changfe so you work off that con foir health. add second one which improves the new con. It works, but it takes more time since you need someone to put amulet on as bear.
Thomas_Covenant 01-15-07, 07:51 PM	Thinking about the RAW in this case gives me unpleasant tremors, but Rage works ok. Rage (Ex): A barbarian can fly into a rage a certain number of times per day. In a rage, a barbarian temporarily gains a +4 bonus to Strength, a +4 bonus to Constitution, and a +2 morale bonus on Will saves, but he takes a –2 penalty to Armor Class. The increase in Constitution increases the barbarian’s hit points by 2 points per level, but these hit points go away at the end of the rage when his Constitution score drops back to normal. (These extra hit points are not lost first the way temporary hit points are.) Emphasis mine. So, Rage still gives hps like it logically should, because it outright says it does. For War Shaper, you could honestly argue either way at this point. I think the RAW leans towards NOT increasing Hps, which is quite stupid. As a DM or Player, I don't care too much, because I can't imagine the RAW being followed for this case. Strict RAW, it is very possible none of the other cases increase Hps.
mobius2702 01-15-07, 08:05 PM	Thinking about the RAW in this case gives me unpleasant tremors, but Rage works ok. Emphasis mine. So, Rage still gives hps like it logically should, because it outright says it does. Thanks for the rage insight. I re-read that entry many times, but had my blinders on for some reason. For War Shaper, you could honestly argue either way at this point. I think the RAW leans towards NOT increasing Hps, which is quite stupid. As a DM or Player, I don't care too much, because I can't imagine the RAW being followed for this case. Strict RAW, it is very possible none of the other cases increase Hps.[/QUOTE] Yeah, that's what I figured. Our DM is very RAW-oriented, which is ok by me since we're all on a level playing field in that regard. But where RAW is somewhat vague and/or makes no sense at all, it's good to have some back-up to quote as I hash this out with him prior to our session. Thanks for the input.