Barbarians, any good? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Barbarians, any good? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
swindy
10-25-07, 08:32 AM Just need some tips on my Blackscaled lizard folk barb. I dont think i want to go FB from what ive heard im more of a liability. I was also thinking going barb up till 20th, i like the idea of the 5/- and the immense raging abilities at that level. Any good tips would be great.
Lokathor
10-25-07, 08:50 AM >_> Power Attack... No, really, there've been number crunches. Barbarbians can keep up damage potential with even the Tome Of Battle folks if they boost the power attack with things like Leap Attack.

If your DM allows retraining, grab Extra Rage early on and then swap it out for something else later. Even if your DM doesn't allow retraining, it might not be a bad idea (maybe get it with a flaw, if you use them). Also, two levels in fighter doesn't hurt too much if you place them both at key levels to pick up an extra feat, like Shock Trooper.
Mookie37
10-25-07, 10:45 AM Listen to Lokathor, Power Attack, Power Attack, POWER ATTACK.
Leap attack is a must, with your strength, especially while raging, you can make the jump check easily. Grab Combat Brute (iirc) to subract the PA penalty from AC instead of attack bonus and your charges become a thing of utter death.
If complete champion is available then take the Lion Totem substitute ability, loose fast movement to gain Pounce.
20th lvl: PA+Leap Attack+Combat Brute+Pounce-> 4 attacks on a charge with no penalty to hit and +120 extra damage(If using a two hander) before strength or weapon die is even factored in.
RobbyPants
10-25-07, 12:18 PM First and formost, I cannot stress this enough: I 100% agree with the above two posters. Not only is Power Attack made of pure win for barbarians, but feats like Leap Attack and Combat Brute (that both boost Power Attack) make it even better.

Also, remember to rage. This is a wonderful class feature that can drastically improve your effectiveness. Assuming you're a good little barbarian and are using a two-hander, the +4 Str give you +2 to hit and +3 to damage. Now, if you decide you don't need the bonus to hit, and simply convert it into Power Attack damage, that +4 Str gives you +7 to damage! With Leap Attack or Combat Brute, you get +9 to damage for free (and some free HP and a Will boost to boot).

One thing that' disapointed me in the game I'm running is I have a player runnign a halfling barbarian (yes, I know). She's a consitant hitter and she has a decent AC, but she never uses Rage or Power Attack. She could be five times better if she would do this.

Sadly, a barbarian won't keep up with a caster at mid/high levels, but compared to a fighter or monk, they're much better. I think they might even come out ahead of rangers.
DwarfPcfan
10-25-07, 12:44 PM If barbarians weren't powerful, The marvel Mini-series "World War Hulk" would'nt be going in the direction it's currently going....

But seriously, I also put my vote to agree that power attack is tTHE barbarian feat.

Also, here are a few suggestions I'd make for 2 barbarian builds

The first:
Barbarian18/Fighter2
Lv1 (Barb1): Power Attack
Lv2(Barb2):-
Lv3(Barb2/Fighter1):Improved Bull rush, Improved Sunder
Lv4(Barb2/Fighter2):Cleave
Lv5(Barb3/Fighter2):-
Lv6(Barb4/fighter2):Leap attack
Lv7(Barb5/Fighter2):-
Lv8(BarB6/Fighter2):-
Lv9(Barb7/Fighter2):Shock Trooper
Lv10(Barb8/Fighter2):-
Lv11(Barb9/Fighter2):-
Lv12(Barb10/Fighter2): Combat Brute
Lv13(Barb11/Fighter2):-
Lv14(barb12/Fighter2):-
Lv15(Barb13/Fighter2):Reckless Rage
Lv16(Barb14/fighter2):-
Lv17(Barb15/Fighter2):-
Lv18(Barb16/Fighter2)Instantaneous Rage
Lv19(Barb17/Fighter2):-
L20(Barb18/Fighter2:-

The other would be: Barb7/BearWarrior8/Berserker5(Demigods)

With similar feats, but bear form into a Dire Bear and get a +20 to strenght along with rage bonuses (+8 or 10 if my memory serves my right)!!!
Mookie37
10-25-07, 12:57 PM I can't believe I forgot Cleave, I feel so ashamed:raincloud

Also, back on the Power Attack note. I find it helps to keep my barbarians written like they wrote the stats for General Greivous in SW Saga, ALWAYS POWER ATTACKING. Seriously, when not charging you can usually safely power attack for the amount of +to ht gained from rage and still have a good chance to hit if you keep your strength up, which should be a given.

Edit: Now that I think about it, I think it might be Shock Trooper that allows you to take the PA penalty from AC instead of BaB, but being AFB I can't tell.
dman11235
10-25-07, 02:56 PM The Bear Warrior bonuses replace those of rage, they do not stack. And the feat is shock trooper, and it only applies on charges.
Argaud
10-25-07, 03:02 PM Barbarian is, perhaps, the best class to start playing D&D 3.5. The barbarian is a one trick pony with a very good trick: they smash stuff.

Simple. And fun. A good design of a class, and very strong at low level.

That said, once a player has some experience with the game, going past barbarian 1 is probably not a good idea for any meleer. They are completely front-loaded, and very scarce of real tactical options.
bloodtalon
10-25-07, 04:00 PM might also want to take instant rage
helps out when your surprised
InkBlot
10-25-07, 04:16 PM That said, once a player has some experience with the game, going past barbarian 1 is probably not a good idea for any meleer. They are completely front-loaded, and very scarce of real tactical options.

They can be very tactically straight forward, that's true. Multiclassing to get more round-by-round options is one thing, but for more power is another. Barbarians don't have any dead levels. Taking enough levels for your first point of DR/-, for Improved Uncanny Dodge, or just so you have enough uses of rage to last through a very busy day, is by no means a bad idea. It's not like Extra Rage, Extend Rage, and Greater Resiliency are fighter feats.
emeraldstreak
10-25-07, 05:21 PM Just need some tips on my Blackscaled lizard folk barb. I dont think i want to go FB from what ive heard im more of a liability. I was also thinking going barb up till 20th, i like the idea of the 5/- and the immense raging abilities at that level. Any good tips would be great.

If you mean to play the Blackscale lizardfolk from Eberron, detailed in MM 3, first note that Blackscales have 4 racial hit dice and +3 Level Adjustment, so it is effectively a 7th level character already. You'll only be able to advanced it to barb level 13 by the time your companions will be 20.

On the plus side, Blackscales are large, have +8 str and +4 Con (and -2 Int -4 Cha). My advice is to choose a reach weapon, like a guisarme, and consider Combat Reflexes if you have positive Dex.

Your 4 racial monstrous humanoid dice aren't bad with 4 BAB and +4 on your Reflex and Will saves and you get 2 feats and one ability increase from them.

Blackscales also get +7 natural armor, which is great for a barbarian.

Basic stuff like Power Attack is a must, beyond that consider either a more defensive style of fighting using a reach weapon for AoOs and your natural armor as a base to achieve decent AC. With Enlarge, your trip modifier will be really nice too. Alternatively, make a charger build for tons of damage, if you indeed play Eberron don't forget it has some charger-specific feats that excel for size. By the way, if you get 25+ strength you can take Awesome Blow for fun.
swindy
10-28-07, 03:43 PM Well, my friend changed it slightly cos we are doing a campaign with level adjustment +2, and he got rid of the bonus hit die and extra feats.
Calling it +2 instead. And its not eberron setting either lol.

But, thanks for all the good advice dudes. My Barb is currently 4th like the others and has power attack and cleave. Wields a huge greataxe and power attacks constantly, has 26 strength. 17 dex too plus 22 con.

I was thinking going straight barb for whenver we get to 20th the +8 to strength and con would be rather nice imo.

Thanks for the help guys.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
swindy 10-25-07, 08:32 AM	Just need some tips on my Blackscaled lizard folk barb. I dont think i want to go FB from what ive heard im more of a liability. I was also thinking going barb up till 20th, i like the idea of the 5/- and the immense raging abilities at that level. Any good tips would be great.
Lokathor 10-25-07, 08:50 AM	>_> Power Attack... No, really, there've been number crunches. Barbarbians can keep up damage potential with even the Tome Of Battle folks if they boost the power attack with things like Leap Attack. If your DM allows retraining, grab Extra Rage early on and then swap it out for something else later. Even if your DM doesn't allow retraining, it might not be a bad idea (maybe get it with a flaw, if you use them). Also, two levels in fighter doesn't hurt too much if you place them both at key levels to pick up an extra feat, like Shock Trooper.
Mookie37 10-25-07, 10:45 AM	Listen to Lokathor, Power Attack, Power Attack, POWER ATTACK. Leap attack is a must, with your strength, especially while raging, you can make the jump check easily. Grab Combat Brute (iirc) to subract the PA penalty from AC instead of attack bonus and your charges become a thing of utter death. If complete champion is available then take the Lion Totem substitute ability, loose fast movement to gain Pounce. 20th lvl: PA+Leap Attack+Combat Brute+Pounce-> 4 attacks on a charge with no penalty to hit and +120 extra damage(If using a two hander) before strength or weapon die is even factored in.
RobbyPants 10-25-07, 12:18 PM	First and formost, I cannot stress this enough: I 100% agree with the above two posters. Not only is Power Attack made of pure win for barbarians, but feats like Leap Attack and Combat Brute (that both boost Power Attack) make it even better. Also, remember to rage. This is a wonderful class feature that can drastically improve your effectiveness. Assuming you're a good little barbarian and are using a two-hander, the +4 Str give you +2 to hit and +3 to damage. Now, if you decide you don't need the bonus to hit, and simply convert it into Power Attack damage, that +4 Str gives you +7 to damage! With Leap Attack or Combat Brute, you get +9 to damage for free (and some free HP and a Will boost to boot). One thing that' disapointed me in the game I'm running is I have a player runnign a halfling barbarian (yes, I know). She's a consitant hitter and she has a decent AC, but she never uses Rage or Power Attack. She could be five times better if she would do this. Sadly, a barbarian won't keep up with a caster at mid/high levels, but compared to a fighter or monk, they're much better. I think they might even come out ahead of rangers.
DwarfPcfan 10-25-07, 12:44 PM	If barbarians weren't powerful, The marvel Mini-series "World War Hulk" would'nt be going in the direction it's currently going.... But seriously, I also put my vote to agree that power attack is tTHE barbarian feat. Also, here are a few suggestions I'd make for 2 barbarian builds The first: Barbarian18/Fighter2 Lv1 (Barb1): Power Attack Lv2(Barb2):- Lv3(Barb2/Fighter1):Improved Bull rush, Improved Sunder Lv4(Barb2/Fighter2):Cleave Lv5(Barb3/Fighter2):- Lv6(Barb4/fighter2):Leap attack Lv7(Barb5/Fighter2):- Lv8(BarB6/Fighter2):- Lv9(Barb7/Fighter2):Shock Trooper Lv10(Barb8/Fighter2):- Lv11(Barb9/Fighter2):- Lv12(Barb10/Fighter2): Combat Brute Lv13(Barb11/Fighter2):- Lv14(barb12/Fighter2):- Lv15(Barb13/Fighter2):Reckless Rage Lv16(Barb14/fighter2):- Lv17(Barb15/Fighter2):- Lv18(Barb16/Fighter2)Instantaneous Rage Lv19(Barb17/Fighter2):- L20(Barb18/Fighter2:- The other would be: Barb7/BearWarrior8/Berserker5(Demigods) With similar feats, but bear form into a Dire Bear and get a +20 to strenght along with rage bonuses (+8 or 10 if my memory serves my right)!!!
Mookie37 10-25-07, 12:57 PM	I can't believe I forgot Cleave, I feel so ashamed:raincloud Also, back on the Power Attack note. I find it helps to keep my barbarians written like they wrote the stats for General Greivous in SW Saga, ALWAYS POWER ATTACKING. Seriously, when not charging you can usually safely power attack for the amount of +to ht gained from rage and still have a good chance to hit if you keep your strength up, which should be a given. Edit: Now that I think about it, I think it might be Shock Trooper that allows you to take the PA penalty from AC instead of BaB, but being AFB I can't tell.
dman11235 10-25-07, 02:56 PM	The Bear Warrior bonuses replace those of rage, they do not stack. And the feat is shock trooper, and it only applies on charges.
Argaud 10-25-07, 03:02 PM	Barbarian is, perhaps, the best class to start playing D&D 3.5. The barbarian is a one trick pony with a very good trick: they smash stuff. Simple. And fun. A good design of a class, and very strong at low level. That said, once a player has some experience with the game, going past barbarian 1 is probably not a good idea for any meleer. They are completely front-loaded, and very scarce of real tactical options.
bloodtalon 10-25-07, 04:00 PM	might also want to take instant rage helps out when your surprised
InkBlot 10-25-07, 04:16 PM	That said, once a player has some experience with the game, going past barbarian 1 is probably not a good idea for any meleer. They are completely front-loaded, and very scarce of real tactical options. They can be very tactically straight forward, that's true. Multiclassing to get more round-by-round options is one thing, but for more power is another. Barbarians don't have any dead levels. Taking enough levels for your first point of DR/-, for Improved Uncanny Dodge, or just so you have enough uses of rage to last through a very busy day, is by no means a bad idea. It's not like Extra Rage, Extend Rage, and Greater Resiliency are fighter feats.
emeraldstreak 10-25-07, 05:21 PM	Just need some tips on my Blackscaled lizard folk barb. I dont think i want to go FB from what ive heard im more of a liability. I was also thinking going barb up till 20th, i like the idea of the 5/- and the immense raging abilities at that level. Any good tips would be great. If you mean to play the Blackscale lizardfolk from Eberron, detailed in MM 3, first note that Blackscales have 4 racial hit dice and +3 Level Adjustment, so it is effectively a 7th level character already. You'll only be able to advanced it to barb level 13 by the time your companions will be 20. On the plus side, Blackscales are large, have +8 str and +4 Con (and -2 Int -4 Cha). My advice is to choose a reach weapon, like a guisarme, and consider Combat Reflexes if you have positive Dex. Your 4 racial monstrous humanoid dice aren't bad with 4 BAB and +4 on your Reflex and Will saves and you get 2 feats and one ability increase from them. Blackscales also get +7 natural armor, which is great for a barbarian. Basic stuff like Power Attack is a must, beyond that consider either a more defensive style of fighting using a reach weapon for AoOs and your natural armor as a base to achieve decent AC. With Enlarge, your trip modifier will be really nice too. Alternatively, make a charger build for tons of damage, if you indeed play Eberron don't forget it has some charger-specific feats that excel for size. By the way, if you get 25+ strength you can take Awesome Blow for fun.
swindy 10-28-07, 03:43 PM	Well, my friend changed it slightly cos we are doing a campaign with level adjustment +2, and he got rid of the bonus hit die and extra feats. Calling it +2 instead. And its not eberron setting either lol. But, thanks for all the good advice dudes. My Barb is currently 4th like the others and has power attack and cleave. Wields a huge greataxe and power attacks constantly, has 26 strength. 17 dex too plus 22 con. I was thinking going straight barb for whenver we get to 20th the +8 to strength and con would be rather nice imo. Thanks for the help guys.