Post/Author/DateTime	Post
squally160 02-16-06, 10:55 AM	So im just getting back into 3rd Ed, and i was wondering what other books i should pick up to add a little to a barbarian? i have the "core" books, and im just looking for supplemental stuff. THanks :D
Puca 02-16-06, 11:01 AM	Barbarian doesnt benefit from supplements as much as some other classes do. If you are looking to buy, check out Complete Warrior. It is good for any combat class. I dont care much for the barb-oriented PrCs, but it has some combat and rage feats you should definately look at. Complete Adventurer also has some really good stuff you can use.
Dev Vim 02-16-06, 11:37 AM	PRCs dont help barbarians much, though im working on several for them myself. really if you want a good barbarian its all about feat selection, but like puca siad CW and CA are good books to start with, also get the Book of Exalted Deeds" if you want a barbarian with the holy/champion of good flavor and a real vicious ability set.
squally160 02-16-06, 12:02 PM	Thats really what im looking for, good feats. I was never a fan of PrC's for my chars, so i dont mind not having any real good ones available :) any tips on barb feats? IE, if i wanted a nice 2 hander barb, picking up this feat from here might help you out? thanks for pointing me in the right direction tho :D
Dev Vim 02-16-06, 12:06 PM	well if your talking feats the list goes on and on. power attack, cleave and great cleave are of corse the old standards. leap attack from CA is usefull as all get out. wreckless rage from races of stone is great too, as are many of the feats in the CW. there are tons and tonds of feats for barbarians to pick, the trick is kowing what KIND of barbarian you want, that could narrow things down a bit
Subedei 02-16-06, 12:07 PM	Well Barbarian is an incredibly good one level dip for other classes.
Dev Vim 02-16-06, 12:14 PM	actually ive never seen the point in dipping barbarian. the secret to a good barbarian progression is the rage. if you cant gain a full rage progression or something REALLY good to make up for not having it, then there really istn much of ar eason to dip, at least in my opinion
squally160 02-16-06, 12:16 PM	pshh, why dip when you can be 20 barb? :P id like a 2 hander barb that uses a Falchion, for RP reasons :) Just a high damage fun build :D BTW, im actually going to be playing from lvl 1 up, so somehting that doesnt flesh out till 10 or so, wouldnt really work
Puca 02-16-06, 12:17 PM	any tips on barb feats?I like Extra Rage (CW) at low levels, if you dont anticipate getting to high level play in the campaign or are going to mix in levels of fighter or a PrC. Being able to use your key ability evey encounter is pretty good. After about level 12, you can pretty much do that anyway though, so it really isnt the best in the long run if you are going to keep advancing as a barb. There are also combat style feats in CW. They let you pull off multiple different moves, like Shock Trooper which lets you direct a Bull Rush into an occupied square and knock both opponents down. Leap Attack from CAdv is nice: Jump and charge so the surface doesnt matter and you do extra damage if you Power Attack with a two-handed weapon on the leap.
Subedei 02-16-06, 12:21 PM	Say a Fighter takes it, he gains: Speed +10, +4 to con, +4 Str 1/day, Improved Fort Save, 2 extra skill points (or more if he takes this at first level) and 1d2 extra HP! He loses: A feat... If you want to take a second level of it then Uncanny Dodge isn't bad at all.
Dev Vim 02-16-06, 12:22 PM	well if thats what your going for then your goign to want power attack, cleave, great cleave, leap attack, alot of ranks in jump, and wreckless rage as a starter. still i just have to say again in case you ever feel like trying PRCs to keep champion of gwenyrwhyf in mind, full rage progression, immunity to mind controll and energy resistance, along with a short spell list, it can be fun.
ninjarabbit 02-16-06, 12:32 PM	Iron will and extend rage (CW) are also good feats for a barbarian.
Dev Vim 02-16-06, 12:33 PM	Say a Fighter takes it, he gains: Speed +10, +4 to con, +4 Str 1/day, Improved Fort Save, 2 extra skill points (or more if he takes this at first level) and 1d2 extra HP! He loses: A feat... If you want to take a second level of it then Uncanny Dodge isn't bad at all. ok, for a fighter that is true, but most other non-martial classes would have to give up some of his basic class abilitys, I guess it is good as a dip in some cases, but others it would be hindering
squally160 02-16-06, 12:34 PM	where is the Champ PrC located at? ill take a look at it also i like the jump idea, i had originally planned on spring attack, as id be droppin AC when i raged so i kinda would be a skirmsher of sorts, but i guess with d12 and decent gear, it would be ok to stick in the fray :D
Dev Vim 02-16-06, 12:39 PM	thats just how you have to do it, thats the thing with barbarians, you freak out and smash thigns and if you get hit it dosent matter that much cause you outpace everyone with HP. anyways look for the champion in the "book of exalted deeds", it requires two diffrent feats to work with but they are worth it for what you get in return. imagine, a barbarian who can cast "cure light wounds" on self, not bad huh?
Tony Vargas 02-16-06, 12:40 PM	pshh, why dip when you can be 20 barb? :P id like a 2 hander barb that uses a Falchion, for RP reasons :) Numerically the falchion is slightly inferior to the greatsword and great axe, but what the heck, enjoy the threat range. Good feats in the PH would include: Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave (taken ASAP), the first two at 1st, if human, GC at 6th if you're still facing things that are GC-able (otherwise maybe not - GC can come into play any time you face more than two opponents, even when they may not be single-hit kills; but, some campaigns tend heavily towards single BBEG 'boss' encounters, especially at high level). At 9th you can pick up Improved Crit with your Falchion (instead of getting a Keen Falchion, get Thundering, it's only +1 and it does extra sonic damage on a crit, which is kinda cool, as it makes crits meaningful against many non-critable creatures). Blindfight is nice to have for any melee type. There are several other feats that take Power Attack as a preq that can be worthwhile (Improved Sunder, bull rush, etc). With rage-fuled STR, grappling can also be worthwhile, though Improved Grapple take Improved Unarmed Strike, so is a bit of an investment. Also, since Barb's get Survival as a class skill, Track can be worthwhile if you're not going to have an actual Ranger in the party. Complete Warrior has some good feats for the Barb, the most obvious being Extra Rage, which nullifies your most glaring weakness at low level. Some of the other Rage feats are less desireable, some possibly good depending on the kinds of challenges you face. Some of the Tactical feats - like Shock Trooper - might be worth a look. Leap Attack, as has been mentioned, can certainly be very potent.
squally160 02-16-06, 12:40 PM	like id waste the time to cast a wimpy heal spell ;) haha, ill check it out, does sound fun tho having a little bit of magic to fall back on
Subedei 02-16-06, 12:48 PM	Karmic Strike could be quite fun if you're planning on getting hit and falling back on your HP and DR anyway. If you're a Warforged Barbarian you could take the Improved DR feat once you gain damage reduction.
Dev Vim 02-16-06, 12:49 PM	well that was just one example, personally i like using "shield other" alot, that way i can absorb my damage and theirs (then again i have a legacy weapon that lets me, among other things, use empathetic transfer three times per day) but really a champion can end up being the partys big defender along with a whirling force of melee
squally160 02-16-06, 12:51 PM	Thanks a lot for the info, but one last question, apart from imp crit (which i want with a falchion, hehe) should i pick up WF or more stuff like extra rage / wreckless rage? i feel so feat-limited, so much stuff that woul;d be nice, so few feats :(
Dev Vim 02-16-06, 01:01 PM	theres almost no reason for a barbarian to get weapon focus, ever. more rage feats and mroe feats that provide a decent improvement to damage are very good ideas, also try rapid metabolism from the psionic handbook. its not a psionic feat and increases your healingrate, definatly a nice one to have