Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jktrondarr 10-12-04, 04:08 AM	i've based my barbarian on a mixture of the 3.5 PHB version, the diablo II: diablerie version, and a few remenants of the 2nd edition complete barbarians handbook. except where noted below, it's the same as the 3.5 PHB version. feedback is always welcome, & in fact, encouraged. 1) : my barbarian gains spot as a class skill. 2) : removed the trap sense ability at lvls 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, & 18: a raging ball of chaotic fury being as intuitive about sensing traps as a rogue makes absolutely no sense to me. 3) : you cannot multiclass into this class unless you have previous lvls in it. you either start as a barbarian or you don't. likewise, multiclassing out of this class doesn't automatically negate your illiteracy or metal aversion like the PHB barbarian does. i included this rule because i realize this version is more powerful than the PHB version, and needed something to help keep it balanced. 4) : added the following abilities at the listed lvls. note that he still gains an ability at every lvl. 1st lvl - METAL AVERSION: if a barbarian uses weapons or armor made of metal, or mostly of metal, he suffers a -2 penalty to attack and damage rolls, & an additional -2 armor check penalty. each lvl after 1st, he may spend 2 skill points to reduce these penalties by 1 (minimum of 0). this represents the barbarian gradually overcoming his initial superstitions about metal weapons and armor. 15th lvl - HOWL: a barbarian can cut loose with a bone chilling howl as a full round action that does not provoke an AoO. opponents within 30' that hear this cry must attempt a will save (DC = 10+1/2 barbarian lvl+cha mod). those that fail flee from you for 1d4 rounds+1 round for every 5 full lvls in the barbarian class. this is a mind-affecting fear effect useable x3/day. 3rd lvl - INCREASED STAMINA: gain the endurance feat for free. 6th lvl - HEART FEAST: many barbarians believe that consuming the hearts of their enemies provide strenght and healing. x1/day you may take 1 full minute to harvest & prepare the heart from a once-living foe vanquished by yourself in battle within the past hour. consuming the heart restores a # of HP equal to 1d8+1/2 your barbarian lvl (round down), and grants you a +2 morale bonus to all saving throws for the next hour. any hitpoints gained over your normal maximum are added as temporary hitpoints. no other character, not even another barbarian can benefit from your heart feast. 9th lvl - LEAP ATTACK: you may attempt a leap attack x1/round by making a successful jump check. you may leap and attack any foe within 15' with standing jump, or any foe within 30' with a running start of at least 10'. this ability counts as a full-round action that does not provoke AoOs. you gain a +2 bonus to attack and damage rolls with this ability. 3rd lvl - BATTLE CRY: you let loose with a bloodcurdling yell as a standard action. opponents within 30' that hear you must make a will save (DC= 10+1/2 barbarian lvl+cha mod). those that fail suffer a -2 morale penalty to AC, and all attack & damage rolls for 1d4 rounds. useable x3/day, but not more than once per combat encounter. 18th lvl - IRON SKIN: the barbarians flesh literally becomes more dense through exercise, diet, & conditioning(excessive battle scarring). when an opponent makes a critical conformation roll against you, your AC is treated as if 4 points higher than normal. (example: a blackguard rolls a critical threat against your AC of 17. in order to confirm the crit, he must hit AC 21 on his conformation roll).
jktrondarr 10-15-04, 01:22 AM	bump
Steelgryphon 10-15-04, 08:33 AM	Im not a big balance person, as in I cant figure out balance not that I dont like it. But to me this seens WAY to powerful, your removing a moderetly good ability and replaceing it with 8 good abilitys. Its not balanced
jktrondarr 10-17-04, 01:15 AM	yes, he gains several new abilities, but metal aversion is a pretty big drawback. however, i edited out barbaric surge, & reduced gained skill points. how does it look now?
Steelgryphon 10-17-04, 09:44 AM	it looks good now. but if you want to play a godly character go play diablo lol. But where did you find the mod for diablo that you mentioned and will it work with a cracked version?
TheGnomishWizard 10-17-04, 11:03 AM	The Diablorie (or however it is spelled) isn't for the cmputer game... it's a small booklet of d20 rules using diablo 2 characters and abilities. Now I saw a few things I didn't like about your class. First off, trap sense, as the original barb gains it I understand when in the woods, "Hmm, that pile of leaves not look good. *poke* (leaves break away to a pit trap). So I don't mind it too much. Now, for your changes. The skill points per level. 2+int, that's fine except that made it so he sucks with animals, that seems very un-barbarian-like (to me). The leap attack is just silly. I know how it works in Diablo, but are you going to try and explain that the force at which the barb hits the ground is strong enough to send everyone adjacent to him sprawling backwards? Lastly, I have only a problem with heart feast healing the barb... morale bonuses are fine, but there is no reason that it should heal him.
jktrondarr 10-27-04, 08:38 PM	thanks for the comments steelgryphon and gnomishwizard. everyone else must think that it's so awesome that there's no need to reply.
jktrondarr 11-18-04, 04:02 AM	bump
TyraaloftheFist 11-18-04, 04:07 PM	I like it, and it seems balanced, because who really has time to rip out and eat some hearts? I would add toughness a few times if this is based on Diablo 2 barbarian, and drop the Howl. IMHO, enemies running away is just an irritating excuse for the DM to drop more enemies on you than you can handle. Also, I have an explanation for the Leap Attack's bull rush: Enemies move out of the way or he stomps/kicks/slugs them back.
NehpetsTtocs 11-18-04, 05:19 PM	Wow, I really like this class. I think that it would be a nice alternative to the barbarian class proper, in one of the campaigns in which I am currently playing. Would you mind if I printed out your version and showed it to my DM?
jktrondarr 11-18-04, 05:35 PM	Wow, I really like this class. I think that it would be a nice alternative to the barbarian class proper, in one of the campaigns in which I am currently playing. Would you mind if I printed out your version and showed it to my DM? i would be honored.
NehpetsTtocs 11-19-04, 02:34 PM	Thanx!
ab0b0 11-20-04, 02:33 AM	First off, I definitely like the multi-classing restriction. You're either a barbarian or you're not. You shouldn't be able to just "pick up" a level of barbarian after living your whole life as a civilized person. This should go for all barbarians not just your variant. my barbarian only recieves 2+int mod skill points/lvl(x4 at 1st) vs the PHB version. he also trades handle animal and ride for spot. I really don't think this is necessary from a balance perspective. It won't really serve to balance any combat abilities of any significant power. From a flavor perspective I think that dropping Handle Animal and Ride doesn't really make the class more barbaric unless you want the barbarian to be so primitive that even basic animal husbandry is too advanced for him. removed the trap sense ability at lvls 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, & 18: a raging ball of chaotic fury being as intuitive about sensing traps as a rouge makes absolutely no sense to me. I've never been a big fan of trap sense for the barbarian either. You can take or leave it because IMO sometimes it makes sense and sometimes it doesn't. By the way, since when did make-up help you sense traps? :) 1st lvl - METAL AVERSION: if a barbarian uses weapons or armor made of metal, or mostly of metal, he suffers a -2 penalty to attack and damage rolls, & an additional -2 armor check penalty. each lvl after 1st, he may spend 2 skill points to reduce these penalties by 1 (minimum of 0). this represents the barbarian gradually overcoming his initial superstitions about metal weapons and armor. I think that this is overly punitive especially when combined with a reduced number of skill points. Though, it isn't entirely out of line from a flavor perspective. 3rd lvl - HOWL: a barbarian can cut loose with a bone chilling howl as a full round action that does not provoke an AoO. opponents within 30' that hear this cry must attempt a will save (DC = 10+1/2 barbarian lvl+cha mod). those that fail flee from you for 1d4 rounds+1 round for every 5 full lvls in the barbarian class. this is a mind-affecting fear effect useable x3/day. Way, way too powerful for a 3rd level ability. I'd make it a standard action and swap it with the one you give at 15th lv. Giving Endurance for free is reasonable. 6th lvl - HEART FEAST: many barbarians believe that consuming the hearts of their enemies provide strenght and healing. x1/day you may take 1 full minute to harvest & prepare the heart from a once-living foe vanquished by yourself in battle within the past hour. consuming the heart restores a # of HP equal to 1d8+1/2 your barbarian lvl (round down), and grants you a +2 morale bonus to all saving throws for the next hour. no other character, not even another barbarian can benefit from your heart feast. I think that this is cool from a flavor perspective, but from a rules perspective I would alter it. I would change the 1d8+.5 class Lv HP healed to 2 temp HP gained per HD of the victim with a maximum HP total equal to double the barbarian's class level. I also agree that there should be a strict daily limit on this ability. I don't care how barbaric someone is, they can only eat so many people's hearts in a single day! 9th lvl - LEAP ATTACK: you can perform a bull rush against several foes by jumping into the midst of them. you must precede the attack with a jump(move-equivalant action). each foe adjacent to your landing point must make an opposed str check against you or be knocked backward 5'. the standard size modifiers for the bull rush still apply,however, you gain a +2 bonus to the opposed check for each 5' that you jumped. any foe that rolls equal to or better than you doesn't move at all. This is just too mechanically clunky. It might work if you rewrite it or change how it works. 15th lvl - BATTLE CRY: you let loose with a bloodcurdling yell as a standard action. opponents within 30' that hear you must make a will save (DC= 10+1/2 barbarian lvl+cha mod). those that fail suffer a -2 morale penalty to AC, and all attack & damage rolls for 2d4 rounds. useable x3/day, but not more than once per combat encounter.I'd swap this with the 3rd Lv ability, but I'd also weaken it slightly. I'd make it a -1 penalty lasting for an (Intimidate check divided by 5) number of rounds. 18th lvl - IRON SKIN: the barbarians flesh literally becomes more dense through exercise, diet, & conditioning(excessive battle scarring). he gains a +2 natural armor bonus to AC. The barbarian just doesn't need this because from a flavor and rules standpoint he already gets DR. Besides, he's already good enough without it. Overall I like the idea of a more feral barbarian. I think it makes a good alternative for someone who wants more of a savage than a conan clone. I also have one final suggestion. Why not make some of these abilities into feats for people who don't want to adopt a new class? I think that Howl and Battle Cry would be easy to make into related feats. Heart Feast also could be a feat. Even Leap Attack could be a feat if you cleaned it up a bit. If you did that it would modularize most of your ideas. This is never a bad thing because it makes them easier to balance as well as easier for a DM to adopt into his game. I really think that with a bit of work you could make a nice, streamlined rules set for a variant "Savage" barbarian. Take it to the next level, Bill
jktrondarr 11-24-04, 10:37 PM	thanks for the critique. i'll take your advice under concideration.
jktrondarr 02-09-05, 03:41 AM	re-revised, updated, and bumped.
Gilean 02-09-05, 06:55 AM	Too good compared to standard barbarian. Trap sense is not that good. See Szatany's ultimate barbarian for ideas.
Ismaul 02-09-05, 12:59 PM	Metal Aversion is a drawback at low levels. Now you just made him less useful at low levels, and use this as an excuse to power up high levels. Every level should be balanced, not a 20th level character. I suggest you give something at 1st level to compensate for metal aversion, and reduce a bit in power higher levels of the class.
pheonixfrostmourn 02-16-05, 11:59 PM	you've got a winner here. i completely agree with the multiclass restrictions(see my instant-multiclassing thread), and the savage nature that you've given back to the barbarian. it does seem a bit overpowered, but not enough to worry about. overall i think this is an awesome version of the barbarian. good job.
jktrondarr 04-17-05, 05:20 AM	to gilean: it's not about how good or bad trap sence is, but about the fact that it doesn't fit my vision of the barbarian. i have checked out the ultimate barbarian, and while it was pretty cool, it ultimately doesn't fit my concept of the barbarian any better than the PHB version. to ismaul: what would you suggest giving him at 1st lvl? the metal aversion is a cultural part of a barbarians background in my game world, and i think a neccessary balancing factor. to pheonixfrostmourn thank you.
lucky2 04-17-05, 03:14 PM	It seems cool, but it's done somewhat unorganizedly. (Is that even a word....No...) I like the idea though, the multi-classing restriction makes sense. However, the non-immediately literate can make for some confusion(I wanna be a wizard-barbarian! What? How do I read my spells!?) Otherwise, I like it!
jktrondarr 05-28-05, 03:08 AM	bump
CJDragon 05-28-05, 03:38 AM	Its a cool idea. Just one question, shouldn't the howl abilty be a verbal one, or are you going on the fact he looks scary when he does it too? You didn't actually write that in the description, if you meant to... As for the abilty at 1st lvl I would say have the heart feast abilty, just powered down. Like you said, the metal aversion is a cultureal thing, and so is the eating of foes, so it makes sense to have it from 1st lvl. Also, you could POSSIBLY consider that only evil barbarians can eat members of the same race (hey, if rangers can't take 'em as favoured enemies, then barbarians shouldn't be able to eat 'em) The metal aversion seems a little underpowered to me. I would say it cost a feat instead of the skill points, like weapon proficiency, since this is much more painful to the player. That way the player is more likely to think about using non-metal weapons and armour, thus roleplaying it better, than just spend the skill points to overcome the inconvenience.
jktrondarr 07-08-05, 03:19 AM	The metal aversion seems a little underpowered to me. I would say it cost a feat instead of the skill points, like weapon proficiency, since this is much more painful to the player. That way the player is more likely to think about using non-metal weapons and armour, thus roleplaying it better, than just spend the skill points to overcome the inconvenience. that's a cool idea. thanks.
Jammin8915 07-30-05, 08:10 PM	very good job. ill have to update my barb. :P
JStegmaier 07-30-05, 09:55 PM	This looks like a very good idea if you think the barbarian should be limited to savages only. Since that is obviously the case, you've done an excellent job in setting up your class. Of course, I disagree with that stance and to that end have renamed the barbarian in my campaign to "berserker" and removed the features of the class that are there solely to indicate his "savage" nature. Instead of being a cultural class, my berserker is simply another way of doing battle. Your class essentially asserts that no one born to a non-barbaric culture could ever learn to harness their anger in battle in any meaningful way. If a man was raised among civilized, rural folk and took his first class level in fighter, but then lived on his own in the wild, defending himself from savage humanoids (perhaps after the area he lived in was conquered or destroyed by such humanoids), and having neither time nor opportunity to practice the fine fighting styles he had learned in his youth, under your rules he would never have the ability to take a single level in the barbarian class, no matter if he spent years upon years living so "savagely." That point I disagree with completely, and I do not much like of either the metal aversion or the heart-eating ability. I suppose if this class were simply the barbarian class of one world, in which all barbarians share these beliefs it would be fine, but if this is meant to be a more generic class (one to fit all or even most barbarian warriors) then those two points especially hurt it. If it is meant to be a generic barbarian class, then those two abilities mean that no "un-civilized" people can ever, under any circumstances, learn to use metal normally without immediately becoming civilized, and that all those not of the civilized world believe consuming an enemy's heart makes you stronger. Both those assertions, I'm fairly confident, are unfounded. However, the ideas for the abilities of savages are good, if a bit misplaced within an actual class, and with your permission, I'll look into using them as feats (as was suggested above) in order to allow my players the ability to make their "berserker" more barbaric.
Nephlite 07-30-05, 10:22 PM	6th lvl - HEART FEAST: many barbarians believe that consuming the hearts of their enemies provide strenght and healing. x1/day you may take 1 full minute to harvest & prepare the heart from a once-living foe vanquished by yourself in battle within the past hour. consuming the heart restores a # of HP equal to 1d8+1/2 your barbarian lvl (round down), and grants you a +2 morale bonus to all saving throws for the next hour. any hitpoints gained over your normal maximum are added as temporary hitpoints. no other character, not even another barbarian can benefit from your heart feast. Can't you just gain this from downing a foe: do we have to eat the heart. My Barbs aren't canaboles lol. But decent ability. 9th lvl - LEAP ATTACK: you may attempt a leap attack x1/round by making a successful jump check. you may leap and attack any foe within 15' with standing jump, or any foe within 30' with a running start of at least 10'. this ability counts as a full-round action that does not provoke AoOs. you gain a +2 bonus to attack and damage rolls with this ability. Why not make it like the feat in Complete Adventurer? Or it gives you the feat even if you don't meet the prequisutes like Monk does with some feats. Leap attack: prequisites PA, jump rank 8. You can combine a charge with a jump against an oppponent. Must cover 10 horizontal feet in jump and land in a sqaure that threatens your target, you add double extra damage gained from Power attack. If you used a 2 handed weapon, you add triple the extra damage. Basically follow charge rules except ignore rough terrain where jumped. So the ability could read: 9th lvl - LEAP ATTACK: You gain the feat Leap Attack even if you do not meet the prequisites. For reference, Leap attack allows you to combine a charge with a jump against an oppponent. You must cover 10 horizontal feet in jump and land in a sqaure that threatens your target, you add double extra damage gained from Power attack. If you used a 2 handed weapon, you add triple the extra damage. Basically follow charge rules except ignore rough terrain where jumped. Due to limited skill points, you might not have jump with 8 ranks. If not you still gain the feat, but without power attack can't use it. But few Barbarains forget PA. So like this? BARBARIAN Alignment: Any nonlawful. Hit Die: d12. Class Skills The barbarian's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str). Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x?4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier. Table: The Barbarian Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special 1st +1 +2 +0 +0 Fast movement, illiteracy, rage 1/day, METAL AVERSION 2nd +2 +3 +0 +0 Uncanny dodge 3rd +3 +3 +1 +1 INCREASED STAMINA, BATTLE CRY 4th +4 +4 +1 +1 Rage 2/day 5th +5 +4 +1 +1 Improved uncanny dodge 6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +2 HEART FEAST 7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +2 Damage reduction 1/— 8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +2 Rage 3/day 9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +3 LEAP ATTACK 10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +3 Damage reduction 2/— 11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +3 Greater rage 12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +4 Rage 4/day, trap sense +4 13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +4 Damage reduction 3/— 14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +4 Indomitable will 15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +5 HOWL 16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +5 Damage reduction 4/—, rage 5/day 17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5 Tireless rage 18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +6 IRON SKIN 19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +6 Damage reduction 5/— 20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +6 Mighty rage, rage 6/day