Post/Author/DateTime	Post
shades of eternity 01-14-07, 10:31 AM	Bard and spell lists kinda a crazy idea. I had to throw together a bard at the last minute for a quick meat grinder and got thinking. Would having full access to the bard's list of spells instead of having to select a couple like the sorceror fix the bard, or would it become unbalenced? It's not like spells are the main focus and it would give bard's a greater versatility to the character. your thoughts?
CaoSlayer 01-14-07, 11:41 AM	Bards dont need a fix in first place. While his would bump his power in spellcasting nearly to the level of a sorcerer without a doubt will be totally broken when you bring into the table the sublime chord because you will have a caster able to cast at will any level 1-9 sorcerer/bard spell; bard will be the most powerful caster surpasing the versatility of the wizard adding the flexibility of the sorcerer.
shades of eternity 01-14-07, 11:44 AM	so a prestige class would break this, not the core bard itself. even with this fix the sorceror has more spell levels, actual spell choices and greater spellcasting overall. as long as that prestige class is banned, I don't think there is a problem.
CaoSlayer 01-14-07, 12:05 PM	so a prestige class would break this, not the core bard itself. even with this fix the sorceror has more spell levels, actual spell choices and greater spellcasting overall. as long as that prestige class is banned, I don't think there is a problem. The thing of the bard spell list is that while is shorter and more focused in two schools, is a very dense spell list I means that with some spells being one or two levels lower and with unique spells or cleric spells result that exist a spell perfect for each situation being the main balancing factor that a bard only can learn so few spells. If you still wants to do something similar, simply allow a bard to learn all the spells from enchantment school for free since enchantment is their natural focus.
shades of eternity 01-14-07, 12:37 PM	actually that might be a more balenced way of doing this. let me pull out my phb and take a look let me compare with the bard list in the phb - enchantment spells only I'm sure I missed a spell or two, but at least we can use this as a frame of reference. enchantment only 1st charm person hypnotism Confusion, lesser sleep tasha's uncontrolable laughter 2nd animal trance daze monster heroism Hypnotic pattern Rage Suggestion 3rd Charm monster clairaudience/Clairvboyance Confusion Crushing dispair Deep Slumber Good Hope 4t dominate person modify memory 5th heroism, greater song of discord 6th Charm monster, mass geas/Quest Otto's irresitable dance *********************** so what your saying is they get these spells plus others as per a sorceror and it should be balenced?
CaoSlayer 01-14-07, 12:46 PM	Yes, the bard would get a good power boost while not resulting too overpowered. Considering some of those spells are very situational or unnused the benefit would be equivalent to about 2 extra spells know per level.
shades of eternity 01-14-07, 01:05 PM	that's what I was looking for a much needed increase in versatility this also allows the spells per day to be selected elsewhere to allow a bard to have the option of what to do. I like it :)
Redmoon 01-14-07, 04:07 PM	I allowed a bard who prepared spells like a wizard one time. Learned 2 spells per level (not all cantrips- 2 cantrips at lvl 1), and could pay to learn more. Needed Intelligence to scribe spells, but used Cha for bonus spells & DCs. I thought using INT for bonus & DCs would be too overpowered. Made for a nice boost to spellcasting. It makes the bard stronger, but really, the bard isn't a weak class- the problem with it is that you can't just sit down and play one, like you can most of the other classes. It takes planning & careful choices of skills, spells, and feats.
shades of eternity 01-15-07, 09:08 AM	what you created sounds an awful like the learned bard that mossfoot published in kodt. man does that class rock.