Bard and Wand of CLW [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bard and Wand of CLW [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
RobTzu
06-24-04, 08:15 PM Is it worth it for a bard to learn "cure light wounds", or should he just get a wand. I see the benefit of the Cure serious and critical, as they are useful in battle. What is the opinion of the boards?
Jell_Moo
06-24-04, 08:42 PM Cure Light Wounds isn't useless as a spell known. At early levels it can really pay off to have another character capable of casting CLW.

The flip side is that it is always good for your character to have a wand of CLW. In a standard campaign, I go by the thinking that if you have a character that can cast CLW, he should make it a priority to get a wand of CLW. It'll save your butt.
ninjarabbit
06-24-04, 08:47 PM Get it for the earlier levels and swap it out once wands of CLW are readily available and affordable to the party.
RobTzu
06-24-04, 08:48 PM So, take it at 1st level, then swap out at 8th level?
BlaineTog
06-24-04, 08:53 PM Originally posted by RobTzu
So, take it at 1st level, then swap out at 8th level? Thats workable, although I like to always have it around. 1st level spells are sweet, but so is this spell (since it will basically always be able to pick dying friends up onto their feet).
Sildatorak
06-24-04, 08:58 PM Another thing that is nice about a wand of CLW is that if an intelligent enemy decides to kill off the buffers and healers first, you can still have a rogue UMD until you're back on your feet.
ninjarabbit
06-24-04, 09:31 PM Originally posted by RobTzu
So, take it at 1st level, then swap out at 8th level?

That's a good idea, since bards do have some other pretty good level 1 spells and by then hopefully you should be able to get several wands of CLW.
meabolex
06-24-04, 09:37 PM Originally posted by RobTzu
Is it worth it for a bard to learn "cure light wounds", or should he just get a wand. I see the benefit of the Cure serious and critical, as they are useful in battle. What is the opinion of the boards?
My answer is:

It depends :rolleyes:

If you have no party healing source, getting healing as soon as possible should be your priority. While the wand looks great on paper (50 cure light wounds for ONLY 750gp), take a closer look. The most you'll get out of it is 1d8 + 1 per casting. At all but the earliest levels, 5.5 average points of healing per round isn't that much. You should be spending your time either using better buffs or better healing spells.

If you have a spontaneous-cure-casting cleric in the party, I wouldn't bother with the CLW spell. I'd go straight to CMW if possible. If you have a druid, it might be worth it to supplement his healing spells early on with CLW. Definitely get every possible source of healing imaginable if you're the primary healer.

The wand slowly fades in combat usefulness, but out of combat it's great. You can just ping it over and over to restore a party to full. EVERYONE that can use a wand of CLW should get one ASAP. Just don't try to rely on it in combat.
RobTzu
06-24-04, 09:41 PM Right, I know it(CLW) is useless in combat past level 3 or so, hence the 8th level swap out. I feel that it isn't worth it to take up a spell known spot.
meabolex
06-24-04, 09:50 PM Originally posted by RobTzu
Right, I know it(CLW) is useless in combat past level 3 or so, hence the 8th level swap out. I feel that it isn't worth it to take up a spell known spot.
Taking up the spell-known shouldn't be your biggest problem. The biggest problem is making up for lost group functionality. If you don't have a wizard/cleric/rogue, you need to be thinking about what you're missing and what your team needs.

Bards get PLENTY of spells known. You typically get as many spells known as you have spell slots. That's a big change from the sorcerer. I wouldn't be afraid to take CLW if a) I don't have a team cleric or b) there's only one cleric for a very large team.
ninjarabbit
06-24-04, 09:56 PM True it does depend on who else is in the party, but by level 8 CLW has outlived its usefulness for a known spell even if there are no other healers in the party and if the party has no other healers, a wand of CLW becomes that much more valuable.
LoricDAHPaladin
06-24-04, 10:19 PM That bards get CLW is awful. I understand designing a character, but sometimes it rubs me wrong when it seems so scientific the way players choose abilities. I do the same thing, so I am as much the problem as anyone else...I wish there were a better way to write it than simple "cost effectiveness".
RobTzu
06-24-04, 10:23 PM Yeah, I don't like my character being a collection of numbers and abilities either. I do want him to be survivable and beneficial to the party. I am planning on a Viking Type Skald (sp?) type character. A horn blowing epic telling Great Axe swinging gritty salty dog. I plan on taking a few (3 or 4) levels of Barbarian for flavour. I have no idea what every one else will be, I plan on being a tracker, backup combatant, and utility spellcaster, and of course use my bardic songs, and social skills.
meabolex
06-24-04, 10:29 PM Originally posted by ninjarabbit
True it does depend on who else is in the party, but by level 8 CLW has outlived its usefulness for a known spell even if there are no other healers in the party and if the party has no other healers, a wand of CLW becomes that much more valuable.
I have no problem with the swap out of CLW at 8th level, particularly if you've got CMW and CSW. In that case, you're probably the primary healer on the team. If you don't have the wand of CLW, you're probably crazy (:

The only reason I'm sorta hesitant to use an 8th level swap on CLW is because of the need to get rid of a low-level enchantment spell. CLW is probably going to work the whole game without problems. But Tasha's/Lesser Confusion/Charm Person probably won't be cast as often when you've got Hold Monster/Confusion/Charm Monster that should be cast instead. You rarely want to use a weaker version of a saving throw based spell when you've got a more powerful one to cast instead. Trading out an enchantment spell for a utility spell like Alarm, Undetectable Alignment, or Obscure Object might be a very good idea.
ninjarabbit
06-24-04, 11:00 PM Originally posted by meabolex
I have no problem with the swap out of CLW at 8th level, particularly if you've got CMW and CSW. In that case, you're probably the primary healer on the team. If you don't have the wand of CLW, you're probably crazy (:

The only reason I'm sorta hesitant to use an 8th level swap on CLW is because of the need to get rid of a low-level enchantment spell. CLW is probably going to work the whole game without problems. But Tasha's/Lesser Confusion/Charm Person probably won't be cast as often when you've got Hold Monster/Confusion/Charm Monster that should be cast instead. You rarely want to use a weaker version of a saving throw based spell when you've got a more powerful one to cast instead. Trading out an enchantment spell for a utility spell like Alarm, Undetectable Alignment, or Obscure Object might be a very good idea.

Good point, but it really depends on what other spells you chose and considering at level 8 you're only going to be able to cast your level 3 spells once or twice a day, it is worthwhile to keep your lower level enchantments just in case and casting low level enchantments from a wand or scroll is a bad idea since they'll have lower DCs than if you cast them yourself while CLW doesn't have a DC and the hp difference from casting it yourself or from a wand is only 4hps, not a huge difference at level 8.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RobTzu 06-24-04, 08:15 PM	Is it worth it for a bard to learn "cure light wounds", or should he just get a wand. I see the benefit of the Cure serious and critical, as they are useful in battle. What is the opinion of the boards?
Jell_Moo 06-24-04, 08:42 PM	Cure Light Wounds isn't useless as a spell known. At early levels it can really pay off to have another character capable of casting CLW. The flip side is that it is always good for your character to have a wand of CLW. In a standard campaign, I go by the thinking that if you have a character that can cast CLW, he should make it a priority to get a wand of CLW. It'll save your butt.
ninjarabbit 06-24-04, 08:47 PM	Get it for the earlier levels and swap it out once wands of CLW are readily available and affordable to the party.
RobTzu 06-24-04, 08:48 PM	So, take it at 1st level, then swap out at 8th level?
BlaineTog 06-24-04, 08:53 PM	Originally posted by RobTzu So, take it at 1st level, then swap out at 8th level? Thats workable, although I like to always have it around. 1st level spells are sweet, but so is this spell (since it will basically always be able to pick dying friends up onto their feet).
Sildatorak 06-24-04, 08:58 PM	Another thing that is nice about a wand of CLW is that if an intelligent enemy decides to kill off the buffers and healers first, you can still have a rogue UMD until you're back on your feet.
ninjarabbit 06-24-04, 09:31 PM	Originally posted by RobTzu So, take it at 1st level, then swap out at 8th level? That's a good idea, since bards do have some other pretty good level 1 spells and by then hopefully you should be able to get several wands of CLW.
meabolex 06-24-04, 09:37 PM	Originally posted by RobTzu Is it worth it for a bard to learn "cure light wounds", or should he just get a wand. I see the benefit of the Cure serious and critical, as they are useful in battle. What is the opinion of the boards? My answer is: It depends :rolleyes: If you have no party healing source, getting healing as soon as possible should be your priority. While the wand looks great on paper (50 cure light wounds for ONLY 750gp), take a closer look. The most you'll get out of it is 1d8 + 1 per casting. At all but the earliest levels, 5.5 average points of healing per round isn't that much. You should be spending your time either using better buffs or better healing spells. If you have a spontaneous-cure-casting cleric in the party, I wouldn't bother with the CLW spell. I'd go straight to CMW if possible. If you have a druid, it might be worth it to supplement his healing spells early on with CLW. Definitely get every possible source of healing imaginable if you're the primary healer. The wand slowly fades in combat usefulness, but out of combat it's great. You can just ping it over and over to restore a party to full. EVERYONE that can use a wand of CLW should get one ASAP. Just don't try to rely on it in combat.
RobTzu 06-24-04, 09:41 PM	Right, I know it(CLW) is useless in combat past level 3 or so, hence the 8th level swap out. I feel that it isn't worth it to take up a spell known spot.
meabolex 06-24-04, 09:50 PM	Originally posted by RobTzu Right, I know it(CLW) is useless in combat past level 3 or so, hence the 8th level swap out. I feel that it isn't worth it to take up a spell known spot. Taking up the spell-known shouldn't be your biggest problem. The biggest problem is making up for lost group functionality. If you don't have a wizard/cleric/rogue, you need to be thinking about what you're missing and what your team needs. Bards get PLENTY of spells known. You typically get as many spells known as you have spell slots. That's a big change from the sorcerer. I wouldn't be afraid to take CLW if a) I don't have a team cleric or b) there's only one cleric for a very large team.
ninjarabbit 06-24-04, 09:56 PM	True it does depend on who else is in the party, but by level 8 CLW has outlived its usefulness for a known spell even if there are no other healers in the party and if the party has no other healers, a wand of CLW becomes that much more valuable.
LoricDAHPaladin 06-24-04, 10:19 PM	That bards get CLW is awful. I understand designing a character, but sometimes it rubs me wrong when it seems so scientific the way players choose abilities. I do the same thing, so I am as much the problem as anyone else...I wish there were a better way to write it than simple "cost effectiveness".
RobTzu 06-24-04, 10:23 PM	Yeah, I don't like my character being a collection of numbers and abilities either. I do want him to be survivable and beneficial to the party. I am planning on a Viking Type Skald (sp?) type character. A horn blowing epic telling Great Axe swinging gritty salty dog. I plan on taking a few (3 or 4) levels of Barbarian for flavour. I have no idea what every one else will be, I plan on being a tracker, backup combatant, and utility spellcaster, and of course use my bardic songs, and social skills.
meabolex 06-24-04, 10:29 PM	Originally posted by ninjarabbit True it does depend on who else is in the party, but by level 8 CLW has outlived its usefulness for a known spell even if there are no other healers in the party and if the party has no other healers, a wand of CLW becomes that much more valuable. I have no problem with the swap out of CLW at 8th level, particularly if you've got CMW and CSW. In that case, you're probably the primary healer on the team. If you don't have the wand of CLW, you're probably crazy (: The only reason I'm sorta hesitant to use an 8th level swap on CLW is because of the need to get rid of a low-level enchantment spell. CLW is probably going to work the whole game without problems. But Tasha's/Lesser Confusion/Charm Person probably won't be cast as often when you've got Hold Monster/Confusion/Charm Monster that should be cast instead. You rarely want to use a weaker version of a saving throw based spell when you've got a more powerful one to cast instead. Trading out an enchantment spell for a utility spell like Alarm, Undetectable Alignment, or Obscure Object might be a very good idea.
ninjarabbit 06-24-04, 11:00 PM	Originally posted by meabolex I have no problem with the swap out of CLW at 8th level, particularly if you've got CMW and CSW. In that case, you're probably the primary healer on the team. If you don't have the wand of CLW, you're probably crazy (: The only reason I'm sorta hesitant to use an 8th level swap on CLW is because of the need to get rid of a low-level enchantment spell. CLW is probably going to work the whole game without problems. But Tasha's/Lesser Confusion/Charm Person probably won't be cast as often when you've got Hold Monster/Confusion/Charm Monster that should be cast instead. You rarely want to use a weaker version of a saving throw based spell when you've got a more powerful one to cast instead. Trading out an enchantment spell for a utility spell like Alarm, Undetectable Alignment, or Obscure Object might be a very good idea. Good point, but it really depends on what other spells you chose and considering at level 8 you're only going to be able to cast your level 3 spells once or twice a day, it is worthwhile to keep your lower level enchantments just in case and casting low level enchantments from a wand or scroll is a bad idea since they'll have lower DCs than if you cast them yourself while CLW doesn't have a DC and the hp difference from casting it yourself or from a wand is only 4hps, not a huge difference at level 8.