Post/Author/DateTime	Post
laurent1 01-13-06, 07:48 PM	Hi. As a Dm, I used every classes at least once to create my bad guys, except one; the bard. I think it's probably the class i'm the least familiar with. Not that I think that it's weak or useless but I have difficulties finding ideas to make a bard as a major villain for my campaign. Do any of you has some ideas? I general, to they make great bad guys? Any advices for making him a graet villain? Thanks a lot
malignor 01-13-06, 08:40 PM	I've ran evil bards. 2 are in my current campaign, and they're terrific villans. Manipulative abilities (suggestion, enchantment spells) mean they get to keep a steady supply of goons to tackle the party. Bards can also control the social aspect of the game. The PCs may be the good guys, but they're also the ones framed for murder, rape and robbery (thanks to the enemy's trickery and silver tongue). Lastly, they're part-time illusionists, so they likely would use alot of trickery or traps to throw the party off. Bards are like the ultimate "sophisticated mastermind" arch-villan.
Anshin Mandango 01-13-06, 10:27 PM	for even more evil bardostity, check out the dirge singer Prc from libris mortis. at 5th level they gain the ability to raise a corpse with dirgesong so that it retains all skills, feats, uncast spells and special abilities, Ex, Sp, and Su abilities and is also completly under the control of the dirgesinger until he stops playing, at which point it becomes a simple corpse again, very nasty if you kill the party wiz/sorc via con poison first so you can raise them and unleash all those spells on the party. also are two bardic flavored inteligent undead monsters, the crypt chanter and the spectral lyricist, the first uses it's music to daze, enthrall, then energy drain in that order, the second has a touch attack that deals 1d6 points of permament charisma drain and the standard bardic music ablities of fascinate and suggestion and could qualify for the dirgesinger Prc with just a single level of bard.
JulesCARV 01-13-06, 10:45 PM	Bard as sophisticated evil mastermind is a possibility, as noted by malignor (and, of course, as exemplified by Nale in Burlew's Order of the Stick, even though he isn't a true bard). Another possibility is a bard as a totally selfish sort of musical star. Think of the stereotypical rock star who uses his fame for tasteless displays of wealth and privilege, circumvention of laws (like using illicit drugs), and easy sex with adoring groupies. Now, imagine that sort of run-of-the-mill hedonism and selfishness, enabled by musical success, multiplied manyfold, so that instead of using fame and money to circumvent laws against using illicit drugs, he's using it to circumvent laws against burning people's homes down for minor greivances, or simply on impulse, or instead of using groupies as a source of easy sex, use them for dirty work, like spreading malicious rumors, etc. In short, be the very opposite of an manipulative mastermind: be a selfish, cruel, lazy, hedonistic lout with a silver tongue, who, far from planning for years in advance for an evil triumph, hardly plans more than a few minutes in advance. Just throwing out an alternative possibility.
arkerpay 01-13-06, 11:24 PM	An evil bard could be a learned man, like a sage. High intelligence and charisma - maxing out knowledge and social skills. His perform skill is in oratory, his spells enchantments. He can be the evil mastermind hiding in plain sight. Or the advisor to someone powerful, who is secretly executing his own agenda.
KelanenPrinceofSwords 01-13-06, 11:36 PM	MORDRIC, THE GAUNT PIPER CR 14 Male human bard 6/thrall of Orcus 8 CE Medium humanoid Init +3; Senses Listen +4, Spot +10 Aura carrion stench (10 ft., DC 18, -2 attack, damage, saves, skills, ability checks for 8 rounds) Languages Common, Abyssal ________________________________________ _____________________________________ AC 19, touch 15, flat-footed 16; Dodge, Mobility hp 59 (14 HD) Fort +8, Ref +10, Will +11 ________________________________________ _____________________________________ Speed 30 ft. (6 squares), fly 30 ft. (average) with demon wings Melee +1 unholy bastard sword +17/+12/+7 (1d10+7/19-20) Melee touch +16/+11/+6 (death, DC 22 Fortitude save negates) Ranged composite longbow (+4 Strength bonus) +15/+10/+5 (1d8+4/x3) Base Atk +12; Grp +16 Special Actions bardic music 6/day (suggestion [DC 17], inspire competence, inspire courage +1, fascinate 2 creatures, countersong), death touch (+16/+11/+6 touch, DC 22), touch of fear 3/day (as cause fear, DC 15, CL 10th) Combat Gear 3 potions of cat’s grace, 2 potions of cure serious wounds (CL 10th), 2 potions of heroism (+2 attack, saves, skills), wand of ghoul touch (heightened to 4th level) (DC 16) 39 Bard Spells Known (CL 9th): 3rd (3/day) -- haste, haunting tune* (DC 17), wounding whispers* (1d8+9) 2nd (4/day) -- cure moderate wounds, invisibility, reveille*, wave of grief* (DC 16) 1st (4/day) -- charm person (DC 15), disguise self, feather fall, Tasha’s hideous laughter (DC 15) 0 (3/day) -- detect magic, ghost sound (DC 14), know direction, light, lullaby (DC 14), read magic * Spell in Spell Compendium. ________________________________________ _____________________________________ Abilities Str 19, Dex 17, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 18 SQ bardic knowledge +7, demon wings at will, pallor of death 1/day (aura of fear, 25 ft., CL 6th), skeletal visage, summon undead 1/day (as summon monster spell, CL 8th, 1d4 ghouls, 1d3 shadows, 1 wight, or 1 wraith) Feats Deformity (guant)*, Dodge, Evil Brand*, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword), Lichloved*, Mobility, Thrall to Demon* Skills Bluff +14, Concentration +15, Diplomacy +12, Disguise +7 (+9 acting), Escape Artist +8, Hide +8, Intimidate +11, Knowledge (arcana) +5, Knowledge (religion) +7, Listen +4, Move Silently +8, Perform (wind instruments) +15, Sense Motive +5, Spellcraft +6, Spot +10, Tumble +6, Use Magic Device +13 Possessions combat gear plus +1 unholy bastard sword, composite longbow (+4 Strength bonus), 10 arrows, 10 adamantine arrows, ring of protection +2, amulet of natural armor +1, belt of giant strength +4, bone pipes (see below), bracers of armor +3 Bone Pipes: Crafted from the carpal bones of an ogre, and imbued with necromantic power, these pipes function as masterwork pipes with minor necromantic effects when played by someone with 1 or more ranks in Perform (wind instruments). By playing the proper notes, such a musician can use command undead (DC 13) and scare (DC 13) once per day each. A musician with 5 or more ranks in Perform (wind instruments) can coax additional necromantic effects from this instrument. By playing the proper notes on the pipes, such a performer can generate blindness/deafness (DC 13), gentle repose, or fear (DC 16) effect. Each of these abilities is usable once per day. Moderate necromancy; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item; blindness/deafness, command undead, fear, gentle repose, scare, creator must have 5 ranks in Perform (wind instruments); Price 46,620 gp; Weight 3 lb.
Pandaemoni 01-14-06, 12:38 AM	I've never run a bard as the BBEG either, but it would be fascinating. It's not just a question of his using his abilities on the PCs in dorect combat...it's that he can manipulate people into fighting the PCs for him. No matter how much good the PCs do, nor how bracely they face danger, he can convince most people that they're the real problem. That makes bards natural evil masterminds. Personally, I'd like to combine the notion of bard as evil mastermind and bard as stuck up superstar. Even a celebrity can have evil schemes, just look at Barbra Streisand. Not only does the trash the PCs and lay his evil plans, but everyone (other than the PCs) knows and loves him! Even if they catch him red-handed in some misdeed, he can Bluff the authorities into thinking the PC's planted the evidence to hide their own guilt. All my BBEGs play a "behind the scenes" (one might say "social" role) for a while before they reveal themselves and expose themselves to actual danger at the PC's hands. If anything I am a bit concerned that the bard might be too good at such a role. No PC wants to be thought of as a prick (or worse, a criminal) all the time by *every* significant NPC, and even a moderately talented bard has the ability to do just that. In order to make things fair, you would need to re-write the Diplomacy and Bluff rules to make them more reasonable. Otherwise bards dominate at Diplomacy by their mid-levels and the glibness completely breaks Bluff (in essence the +30 it gives to Bluff on top of the bards normal ranks ensures the bard can people to believe pretty much any lie, no matter how outrageous, so long as it's not completely impossible for someone to believe--it takes only one "I overheard them plotting to assassinate the king!" to ruin the PCs week...and that's a pretty tame lie by the "I'm a polymorphed lammasu" standards given in the skill description.) Even with less broken versions of the skills the bard would be powerful. With the broken skills in place I'm reasonably certain he could simply get the PCs executed without ever confronting them directly. That makes for a powerful villain, but is perhaps unfair.
Dhavaer 01-14-06, 01:10 AM	The Harbinger is good. Bard variant, any non-lawful non-good, most of the bardic music is reversed, so they have instill fear, dirge of binding and drain prowess. Very cool. In Dragon #337.
CaoSlayer 01-14-06, 04:07 AM	one of the most interesting aptitudes of the bards BBEGs it is to make the players think that other person it is the BBEG and he is just an useless bard. A bard can perfectly use geas or dominate person to control the throne of a country... Also they works wonders an as NPC on the party, other of the good things it is that bards get the aligment undetectable spell at level 1, so that fellow npc who have been hiring you for founding stolen stuff it is a thief who have manipulated your party to bring him the components of a powerful artifact.
laurent1 01-16-06, 10:46 AM	thank you all for those greats ideas. Can't wait to use them in creating a good bard villain.
gamefiend 01-16-06, 11:07 AM	in terms of combat, a Bard with Leadership can be pretty deadly. Inspiration Boost + Bard Song + other buffs for a lot of low level followers (assuming they're low level fighter) = ow. I did this to a party of 6th level characters. The fighters crunched pretty easily, but the party was outnumbered and the minions could hit almost as well the characters (1st level minions versus 6th level characters). And the Bard's cohort was pretty nasty as well.
Thantrax 01-16-06, 11:33 AM	My main advice would be this : NEVER have that bard act solo. If possible, he should avoid directly fighting at all. Always use minions. Have him disguise himself so the PCs don't recognize him until it's too late. If he's participating in the fight, have him do it invisibly and using buffs upon his minions. You'd have fights that have background music, assassins clashing with the PCs with action music playing and boosting the thugs! Bards also have another great advantage for if they are caught/brought out into the open. Great escape tactics. Blink spells to run through walls. Invisibility. Skills such as Hide and Disguise for more mundane escapes. Bards could be FABULOUS BBEGs.
BW0222 01-16-06, 12:00 PM	Some ideas for you.... 1) Con man. Has some scam which he used to bilk the PCs. Selling junk magical items, selling them tickets to a concert which has been cancelled, sell them a magical cloak (stolen from the head of the local wizard's guild), etc. A good bard could easily seriously rip off the PCs. 2) Bad mouth the PCs. Go around conning other folks to make the PCs look terrible. Spread rumors that the PCs are criminals, use evil magic, having been saying that the city watch are a bunch of wimps, etc. He could even disquise himself as one of the PCs and say rob a prominent merchant, assault the bishops sister-in-law, or raid the camp of some barbarians ahead of where the PCs will be heading by. 3) Spying. Join the PCs and find out everything they know. Steal small items from them to leave at a crime scene. Allow them to find various bits of 'good' information and and then set them up to raid an evil wizard's lair -- which turns out to be the summer cottage of the Grand Duke. 4) Direct Lackies. With a high charisma and disquise, bluff, some coin, and some intelligence on the PCs and somehow the local street gang knew exactly which pouch contained the parties most valuable magical item. They knew exactly which room the PCs sleep in and the druid's leopard was somehow (potion of sleep) asleep. Arrange for others to hit the party. Use middle-men, magical messages, or notes to hire and get hold of folks. A good bad guy could drive the party nuts with lots of endless attacks to waste resources, steal items, etc. with little chance of finding the ultimate cause. 5) Political Power or Position. A higher-level bard could easily get herself into a safe or trusted position. The advisor to a king, the son-in-law to the Duke, a seat on the town council, the head of a guild house, etc. From there, such a person could use political power to attack the PCs with little fear of reprisals from them. 6) Cohorts. Leadership is great for an evil bard. Nothing says the cohort couldn't be someone of influence -- a evil female bard sleeping with the Duke's son, or a male bard who got himself elected Captain of the Watch has a rogue cohort (say his cousin) who runs the local thieves guild. Someone gives the watch a tip that the PCs stole something and funny it is found in their room. On the way to jail, the local thieve's guild ambushed the guards and kills a number of them, allowing the PCs to escape. Obviously, the PCs are now guilty and for the deaths of guardmen now also. The bard might try some blackmail or ask the king for some aid in capturing these dangerous criminals. 7) Combat. Try use magical device and some choice scrolls or wands. Ensure they have a good number of lackies and some of the higher-level bard spells are fairly effective. A bard might be a fairly effective hide and move silent person, so ambushes are easy. Illusions, traps, hit and run tactics, etc. Finally, invisibility or similiar spells can make escaping over and over extremely easy. Charming, domination, suggestions, etc. can put neutrals or innocents in the way -- forcing some tough moral decisions from some PCs. An evil bard can be one of the worst opponents to fight, since they can excel at under-handed tactics, trickery, and non-combat methods of going after PCs. This can be a welcome change from the big combat encounters and often forces groups to think and roleplay. You typically can't just slaughter the entire town guard.
grelna 01-17-06, 10:43 PM	I like the options posted above for making bard BBEGs, but thought I'd mention that they can also be surprisingly convincing in a role as thugs/enforcers/lieutenants of the BBEG if you throw in a level of Fighter and Spellsword, and give them the Battle Caster feat. No chance of spell failure while wearing Medium (or mithral Heavy) armor and holding a light shield, almost full BAB, buffing spells like Invisibility, Heroism, Alter Self, and Haste - they can actually be pretty nasty. Especially if you go all out and start adding levels of Dragon Disciple for the stat boosts and the extra spells at the bard's highest levels. And bards don't have to hold a musical instrument in their hands; they might use oratory, recite Zen koans, sing, or just whistle to cast their spells. As a GM, I wouldn't do this sort of thing more than once or twice over the course of a campaign, as bards aren't really meant to be combat monsters, but every now and again it's fun to confound player's expectations.