Bard questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bard questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Arlin
11-30-06, 05:04 PM 1. Could anybody please give me a practical example of the bard's fascinate ability at level 1?

2. Shouldn't the footnote below Table 3-5 be under Table 3-4? (PHB)

Thanks
Batshido
11-30-06, 05:12 PM 1. Could anybody please give me a practical example of the bard's fascinate ability at level 1?

2. Shouldn't the footnote below Table 3-5 be under Table 3-4? (PHB)

Thanks

1. The Bard is performing onstage, and the party realizes that there is a cleric of (insert evil deity) or a local thug or some other type of ne'er do well in the audience. The bard Fascinates them, and the party surrounds them before they break the trance.

1-a. Fascinated characters make very good targets for pickpockets and cutpurses.

1-b. Fascinated guards tend to lose track of their posts, and tend to have a hard time remembering anyone who happens to walk past them while they were effected.

2 I don't have my PHB handy, but the SRD page is here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/bard.htm). See if it helps.
Throg
11-30-06, 05:24 PM Hmm, lets see.

Level 1 Fascinate, you are targeting a lets say guard to distract him while your allies sneak by.

You roll 1d20 + Your total in Perform (Probably around 6-8ish, maybe more if you take Skill Focus). The Total you get on that roll is what the guard has to roll on a Will save else he'll stand there, listening to your song and mostly oblivious to everything around him (Netting him a -4 to Spot and Listen Checks). If he doesn't see your allies, then they successfully get by. But if he managed to see them even with the negative, then you have to make another Perform Check, he gets a new will save vs this new check in order to keep his undivided attention.

As soon as the fascination is broken/saved(Either by his will save, or if an ally attempts to attack your target), you cannot try again against the same target for 24 hours.

As for your second question, if you somehow don't have a bonus spell for 1st level spells (By for some reason, not having a 12+ charisma... but it's more for higher levels), then you don't have access to the 2 1st level spells you get at 2nd level since you don't have any 1st level spells to cast.
Arlin
11-30-06, 05:25 PM Thanks, Batshido

1. This is what I don't understand: the bard is distracting somebody while his allies move around. But the rule says it lasts one round per bard level. At level 1 it lasts 1 round, or 6 seconds. I'm trying to picture the scene here. The bard is singing and his allies are nearby. How do the allies know when the bard started using the ability? They only have 6 seconds to act.

2. The footnote refers to spells known. Shoudn't it refer to spells per day?
Throg
11-30-06, 05:41 PM Thanks, Batshido

1. This is what I don't understand: the bard is distracting somebody while his allies move around. But the rule says it lasts one round per bard level. At level 1 it lasts 1 round, or 6 seconds. I'm trying to picture the scene here. The bard is singing and his allies are nearby. How do the allies know when the bard started using the ability? They only have 6 seconds to act.

2. The footnote refers to spells known. Shoudn't it refer to spells per day?

If you didn't see my post, the answer to your second question is that it's talking about this. At 2nd level, you can only cast 0 1st level spells IF your charisma score is under 12 (IE, only 11). So at 2nd level, you wouldn't be able to cast any 1st level spells yet, so it's referencing that fact.
Batshido
11-30-06, 05:47 PM Thanks, Batshido

1. This is what I don't understand: the bard is distracting somebody while his allies move around. But the rule says it lasts one round per bard level. At level 1 it lasts 1 round, or 6 seconds. I'm trying to picture the scene here. The bard is singing and his allies are nearby. How do the allies know when the bard started using the ability? They only have 6 seconds to act.

Throg did a pretty good job of covering this above.

The thing to remember is that 6 seconds is an eternity when it comes to gaining stealthy entry into, say, a guarded warehouse or keep. Like most 1st level abilities, it's going to be just enough to make an attempt viable, but not automatic. At higher levels, you can Fascinate for upwards of a minute. Plenty of time to break in, loot, and get out. ;)
Arlin
11-30-06, 08:34 PM I got the tricky part about the footnote. Thanks.

But regarding the fascinate ability, the players know when the bard player rolls his dice for the fascinate ability, but how do their characters know when the bard character got his magic going so they can use their six seconds wisely?
Batshido
11-30-06, 08:43 PM I got the tricky part about the footnote. Thanks.

But regarding the fascinate ability, the players know when the bard player rolls his dice for the fascinate ability, but how do their characters know when the bard character got his magic going so they can use their six seconds wisely?

If a character fails his save against a Fascinate attempt, it is usually fairly obvious. It's up to the DM, but likely it includes him/her swaying to the music, getting glassy-eyed, or generally just diverting attention solely to the Bard. I would say that characters that were looking for it would see it. Maybe requiring a Sense Motive check, or something.
TheDanishCartoonist
11-30-06, 09:37 PM The bard could set some sort of queue for the party, that, for instance, when he sings the line about the maiden escaping from the engorged troll, the fascinate will begin its effect and they can get to work.

Alternatively, the wizard/sorc/cleric/druid/caster could probably take a spellcraft check to notice the effect.
Roivas
11-30-06, 10:39 PM All the bard has to do is put it into song.

Now it is time to rob the place blind
Get past this guard while I hold his mind
If you don't he may put us to harm
and if I get stabbed I'm beaking your arm

Then just continue with the song as normal. That protion only takes about 8 seconds to actually say, but if the characters know the signal they can act the second they hear the word now. With six seconds to bypass a lone guard they would have to all be dwarves in mountain plate to not be inside in one move action.
Lael
11-30-06, 10:59 PM Use it to on a single big bad to give you're allies an advantage in combat by getting into a better postion to flank / sneak attack / whatever. It's quite good at doing that.
Throg
11-30-06, 11:20 PM Use it to on a single big bad to give you're allies an advantage in combat by getting into a better postion to flank / sneak attack / whatever. It's quite good at doing that.

You can't use it during combat. Anything like that, and it automatically fails.
Arlin
12-01-06, 09:11 AM I think the cue settles it, especially when the allies are hiding around a corner or something, out of sight. When they hear the cue, they can act. Now it makes sense. Thank you guys.
jaros
12-01-06, 10:05 AM Another question, does the target remember it was fascinated? And what about keywords inserted in the song?
Nephlite
12-01-06, 10:31 AM You can't use it during combat. Anything like that, and it automatically fails.

You can use it prior to combat say your Bard was first in initiatived/surprise round: he can use it. As long as no one else does anything hostile while fadcinate going on.
Lael
12-04-06, 10:42 PM You can use it prior to combat say your Bard was first in initiatived/surprise round: he can use it. As long as no one else does anything hostile while fadcinate going on.

Exactly what I was getting at.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arlin 11-30-06, 05:04 PM	1. Could anybody please give me a practical example of the bard's fascinate ability at level 1? 2. Shouldn't the footnote below Table 3-5 be under Table 3-4? (PHB) Thanks
Batshido 11-30-06, 05:12 PM	1. Could anybody please give me a practical example of the bard's fascinate ability at level 1? 2. Shouldn't the footnote below Table 3-5 be under Table 3-4? (PHB) Thanks 1. The Bard is performing onstage, and the party realizes that there is a cleric of (insert evil deity) or a local thug or some other type of ne'er do well in the audience. The bard Fascinates them, and the party surrounds them before they break the trance. 1-a. Fascinated characters make very good targets for pickpockets and cutpurses. 1-b. Fascinated guards tend to lose track of their posts, and tend to have a hard time remembering anyone who happens to walk past them while they were effected. 2 I don't have my PHB handy, but the SRD page is here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/bard.htm). See if it helps.
Throg 11-30-06, 05:24 PM	Hmm, lets see. Level 1 Fascinate, you are targeting a lets say guard to distract him while your allies sneak by. You roll 1d20 + Your total in Perform (Probably around 6-8ish, maybe more if you take Skill Focus). The Total you get on that roll is what the guard has to roll on a Will save else he'll stand there, listening to your song and mostly oblivious to everything around him (Netting him a -4 to Spot and Listen Checks). If he doesn't see your allies, then they successfully get by. But if he managed to see them even with the negative, then you have to make another Perform Check, he gets a new will save vs this new check in order to keep his undivided attention. As soon as the fascination is broken/saved(Either by his will save, or if an ally attempts to attack your target), you cannot try again against the same target for 24 hours. As for your second question, if you somehow don't have a bonus spell for 1st level spells (By for some reason, not having a 12+ charisma... but it's more for higher levels), then you don't have access to the 2 1st level spells you get at 2nd level since you don't have any 1st level spells to cast.
Arlin 11-30-06, 05:25 PM	Thanks, Batshido 1. This is what I don't understand: the bard is distracting somebody while his allies move around. But the rule says it lasts one round per bard level. At level 1 it lasts 1 round, or 6 seconds. I'm trying to picture the scene here. The bard is singing and his allies are nearby. How do the allies know when the bard started using the ability? They only have 6 seconds to act. 2. The footnote refers to spells known. Shoudn't it refer to spells per day?
Throg 11-30-06, 05:41 PM	Thanks, Batshido 1. This is what I don't understand: the bard is distracting somebody while his allies move around. But the rule says it lasts one round per bard level. At level 1 it lasts 1 round, or 6 seconds. I'm trying to picture the scene here. The bard is singing and his allies are nearby. How do the allies know when the bard started using the ability? They only have 6 seconds to act. 2. The footnote refers to spells known. Shoudn't it refer to spells per day? If you didn't see my post, the answer to your second question is that it's talking about this. At 2nd level, you can only cast 0 1st level spells IF your charisma score is under 12 (IE, only 11). So at 2nd level, you wouldn't be able to cast any 1st level spells yet, so it's referencing that fact.
Batshido 11-30-06, 05:47 PM	Thanks, Batshido 1. This is what I don't understand: the bard is distracting somebody while his allies move around. But the rule says it lasts one round per bard level. At level 1 it lasts 1 round, or 6 seconds. I'm trying to picture the scene here. The bard is singing and his allies are nearby. How do the allies know when the bard started using the ability? They only have 6 seconds to act. Throg did a pretty good job of covering this above. The thing to remember is that 6 seconds is an eternity when it comes to gaining stealthy entry into, say, a guarded warehouse or keep. Like most 1st level abilities, it's going to be just enough to make an attempt viable, but not automatic. At higher levels, you can Fascinate for upwards of a minute. Plenty of time to break in, loot, and get out. ;)
Arlin 11-30-06, 08:34 PM	I got the tricky part about the footnote. Thanks. But regarding the fascinate ability, the players know when the bard player rolls his dice for the fascinate ability, but how do their characters know when the bard character got his magic going so they can use their six seconds wisely?
Batshido 11-30-06, 08:43 PM	I got the tricky part about the footnote. Thanks. But regarding the fascinate ability, the players know when the bard player rolls his dice for the fascinate ability, but how do their characters know when the bard character got his magic going so they can use their six seconds wisely? If a character fails his save against a Fascinate attempt, it is usually fairly obvious. It's up to the DM, but likely it includes him/her swaying to the music, getting glassy-eyed, or generally just diverting attention solely to the Bard. I would say that characters that were looking for it would see it. Maybe requiring a Sense Motive check, or something.
TheDanishCartoonist 11-30-06, 09:37 PM	The bard could set some sort of queue for the party, that, for instance, when he sings the line about the maiden escaping from the engorged troll, the fascinate will begin its effect and they can get to work. Alternatively, the wizard/sorc/cleric/druid/caster could probably take a spellcraft check to notice the effect.
Roivas 11-30-06, 10:39 PM	All the bard has to do is put it into song. Now it is time to rob the place blind Get past this guard while I hold his mind If you don't he may put us to harm and if I get stabbed I'm beaking your arm Then just continue with the song as normal. That protion only takes about 8 seconds to actually say, but if the characters know the signal they can act the second they hear the word now. With six seconds to bypass a lone guard they would have to all be dwarves in mountain plate to not be inside in one move action.
Lael 11-30-06, 10:59 PM	Use it to on a single big bad to give you're allies an advantage in combat by getting into a better postion to flank / sneak attack / whatever. It's quite good at doing that.
Throg 11-30-06, 11:20 PM	Use it to on a single big bad to give you're allies an advantage in combat by getting into a better postion to flank / sneak attack / whatever. It's quite good at doing that. You can't use it during combat. Anything like that, and it automatically fails.
Arlin 12-01-06, 09:11 AM	I think the cue settles it, especially when the allies are hiding around a corner or something, out of sight. When they hear the cue, they can act. Now it makes sense. Thank you guys.
jaros 12-01-06, 10:05 AM	Another question, does the target remember it was fascinated? And what about keywords inserted in the song?
Nephlite 12-01-06, 10:31 AM	You can't use it during combat. Anything like that, and it automatically fails. You can use it prior to combat say your Bard was first in initiatived/surprise round: he can use it. As long as no one else does anything hostile while fadcinate going on.
Lael 12-04-06, 10:42 PM	You can use it prior to combat say your Bard was first in initiatived/surprise round: he can use it. As long as no one else does anything hostile while fadcinate going on. Exactly what I was getting at.