Bard Revamp [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bard Revamp [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
CroupandVandemar
01-10-07, 02:05 AM Bard Revamp:
class special
Bard 1 Bardic music, Countersong, Fascinate, Inspire courage +1
Bard 2 Bardic knowledge or knack, Quickdraw item
Bard 3 Inspire competence
Bard 4 Intuitive whip combat
Bard 5 Suggestion
Bard 6 Quick cast 1/day
Bard 7 Inspire courage+2
Bard 8 Improved whip combat
Bard 9 Inspire greatness
Bard 10
Bard 11 Quick cast 2/day
Bard 12 Song of freedom
Bard 13 Oversized whip combat
Bard 14 Inspire courage +3
Bard 15 Inspire heroics
Bard 16 Quick cast 3/day
Bard 17
Bard 18 Mass suggestion
Bard 19
Bard 20 Inspire courage +4
New additions:
ť Bardic Knowledge or Knack (choose one; details in phb1-pg.28 or phb2-pg.35) moved to 2nd level
ť Quickdraw Item: Starting at 2nd level, a bard starts to rely on her items as much as her weapons, like the Feat Quickdraw but with items, a bard must have one or more free hand(s) to do this. This does not provoke an attack of opportunity.
ť Intuitive Whip Combat: Starting at 4th level, a bard can add her intelligence to any opposed strength check made to disarm or trip with a whip. If she is being tripped during her own trip attempt with her own whip and decides not to let her weapon go, she may add her intelligence to that opposed check.
ť Quick Cast: Beginning at 6th level, a bard can cast 1 spell in her spells known list as a swift action, this uses a spell per day slot of the same level. The spell casting time must be 1 standard action or less. At 11th level, she can cast 2 per day; and at 16th level, she can cast 3 per day. Aside from casting time all other rules for spellcasting apply.
ť Improved Whip Combat: Starting at 8th level, a bard does not provoke an attack of opportunity from when using her whip.
ť Oversized Whip Combat: Starting at 13th level, a bard is treated as one size larger for the purpose of tripping, disarming, and opposed checks with the whip.
_________________________
Please tell me what you think?
IdleAltruism
01-10-07, 03:03 AM Bards can be played as is.....They don't do gobs of damage or have save or die, but they were never meant to. They are decent combatants,healers,skill monkey and have an impressive music ability with a good spell selection to back it up(with prestige classes you can do so much more). This looks more like a whip master( I think there already is one, I think its in the sword and fist). So your "fix" for the bard is to give them a weak weapon that they don't have proficiency with?
CroupandVandemar
01-10-07, 03:15 AM Bards are proficient with whips, and what I was going for was not to overpower them (ie use or improve a great weapon), just to add another helpful ability so that way the party can benefit from her some more.

Thank you for your feedback. It is much appreciated.

Oh! and I love the Bard as is too, but no one I met seems to want to play one in my game. Hence the reason for my revamp / horrible statement at top.
IdleAltruism
01-10-07, 03:36 AM Whoops I completely missed that they actualy are proficient with whips. Its just such a horrible weapon as is(unless you have a lot of feats for things like disarming and tripping people and even then there are better weapons for that sort of thing). Bards don't appeal to alot of people(especialy in D&D) because alot of them can't see themselves singing. Its the flavor and roleplaying that detours people from it. Bards can already be overpowering with suggestion and fascination. Making them stronger won't bring people to them(only if its rigged).
Eyeless Blond
01-10-07, 03:55 AM How big is your group? Bards really shine in:

1) Very small parties. Talking 2-3 here. Druid/bard is the best 2-man team in existence, as each covers the other's weaknesses and both cover multiple non-overlapping spheres of influence fairly competently.

2) Very large parties. Talking at least 6 here, but 7 or more is even better, especially if a few are conjurers. A bard here is the ultimate crowd-pleaser. In large groups the effects of bardsong easily make him the most power contributer to every combat, especially if you put a little effort into your Inspire Courage song. For such groups, a single bard can double or even more the entire group's effectiveness; I've seen a large game like this where a bard came in and suddenly turned the tide of a losing battle.

This isn't to say that bards aren't useful in the traditional 4-man group. They just really can't fill any of the traditional 4 roles very well--trapfinding, healing, utility spellcasting, or fighting--so their class tends to fit more when being a 5th man than a central figure.

That said, bards tend to take the passive role in fights, much like a noncombatant, "walking band-aid type" cleric. If you're willing to sit on the sidelines in combat, knowing your contributions are helping everyone *else* win, and shining as an individual when the fighting is over, bard is for you. If you want notches on your belt, play a wizard, or a rogue, or a barbarian or something.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CroupandVandemar 01-10-07, 02:05 AM	Bard Revamp: class special Bard 1 Bardic music, Countersong, Fascinate, Inspire courage +1 Bard 2 Bardic knowledge or knack, Quickdraw item Bard 3 Inspire competence Bard 4 Intuitive whip combat Bard 5 Suggestion Bard 6 Quick cast 1/day Bard 7 Inspire courage+2 Bard 8 Improved whip combat Bard 9 Inspire greatness Bard 10 Bard 11 Quick cast 2/day Bard 12 Song of freedom Bard 13 Oversized whip combat Bard 14 Inspire courage +3 Bard 15 Inspire heroics Bard 16 Quick cast 3/day Bard 17 Bard 18 Mass suggestion Bard 19 Bard 20 Inspire courage +4 New additions: ť Bardic Knowledge or Knack (choose one; details in phb1-pg.28 or phb2-pg.35) moved to 2nd level ť Quickdraw Item: Starting at 2nd level, a bard starts to rely on her items as much as her weapons, like the Feat Quickdraw but with items, a bard must have one or more free hand(s) to do this. This does not provoke an attack of opportunity. ť Intuitive Whip Combat: Starting at 4th level, a bard can add her intelligence to any opposed strength check made to disarm or trip with a whip. If she is being tripped during her own trip attempt with her own whip and decides not to let her weapon go, she may add her intelligence to that opposed check. ť Quick Cast: Beginning at 6th level, a bard can cast 1 spell in her spells known list as a swift action, this uses a spell per day slot of the same level. The spell casting time must be 1 standard action or less. At 11th level, she can cast 2 per day; and at 16th level, she can cast 3 per day. Aside from casting time all other rules for spellcasting apply. ť Improved Whip Combat: Starting at 8th level, a bard does not provoke an attack of opportunity from when using her whip. ť Oversized Whip Combat: Starting at 13th level, a bard is treated as one size larger for the purpose of tripping, disarming, and opposed checks with the whip. _________________________ Please tell me what you think?
IdleAltruism 01-10-07, 03:03 AM	Bards can be played as is.....They don't do gobs of damage or have save or die, but they were never meant to. They are decent combatants,healers,skill monkey and have an impressive music ability with a good spell selection to back it up(with prestige classes you can do so much more). This looks more like a whip master( I think there already is one, I think its in the sword and fist). So your "fix" for the bard is to give them a weak weapon that they don't have proficiency with?
CroupandVandemar 01-10-07, 03:15 AM	Bards are proficient with whips, and what I was going for was not to overpower them (ie use or improve a great weapon), just to add another helpful ability so that way the party can benefit from her some more. Thank you for your feedback. It is much appreciated. Oh! and I love the Bard as is too, but no one I met seems to want to play one in my game. Hence the reason for my revamp / horrible statement at top.
IdleAltruism 01-10-07, 03:36 AM	Whoops I completely missed that they actualy are proficient with whips. Its just such a horrible weapon as is(unless you have a lot of feats for things like disarming and tripping people and even then there are better weapons for that sort of thing). Bards don't appeal to alot of people(especialy in D&D) because alot of them can't see themselves singing. Its the flavor and roleplaying that detours people from it. Bards can already be overpowering with suggestion and fascination. Making them stronger won't bring people to them(only if its rigged).
Eyeless Blond 01-10-07, 03:55 AM	How big is your group? Bards really shine in: 1) Very small parties. Talking 2-3 here. Druid/bard is the best 2-man team in existence, as each covers the other's weaknesses and both cover multiple non-overlapping spheres of influence fairly competently. 2) Very large parties. Talking at least 6 here, but 7 or more is even better, especially if a few are conjurers. A bard here is the ultimate crowd-pleaser. In large groups the effects of bardsong easily make him the most power contributer to every combat, especially if you put a little effort into your Inspire Courage song. For such groups, a single bard can double or even more the entire group's effectiveness; I've seen a large game like this where a bard came in and suddenly turned the tide of a losing battle. This isn't to say that bards aren't useful in the traditional 4-man group. They just really can't fill any of the traditional 4 roles very well--trapfinding, healing, utility spellcasting, or fighting--so their class tends to fit more when being a 5th man than a central figure. That said, bards tend to take the passive role in fights, much like a noncombatant, "walking band-aid type" cleric. If you're willing to sit on the sidelines in combat, knowing your contributions are helping everyone else win, and shining as an individual when the fighting is over, bard is for you. If you want notches on your belt, play a wizard, or a rogue, or a barbarian or something.