Bard Song and combat damage. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bard Song and combat damage. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Hoopy Frood
07-19-04, 10:46 AM The other day a question came across the Verbobonc (Living Greyhawk) listserv about what happens when a bard takes combat damage while performing a song. The poster wanted to know if a concentration check was required or not.

Oddly enough, it appears that the PHB makes no mention of the realtion to bardic songs and combat damage. It doesn't even list whether or not a bardic song provokes an Attack of Oppurtunity in the chart of common combat actions. The description of the concentration skill isn't too helpful, either, other than saying a concentration check for taking damage is generally only needed when the action itself would provoke an AoO if performed during combat. However, there are some obvious exceptions not mentioned in the skill description, like concentrating to maintain a spell doesn't provoke an AoO, but would require a skill check if hit with damage.

I figured that it might depend on the type of song. Since using spell-like abilities provokes AoO, but using a supernatural ability does not, you could logically extend that to bard songs depending on whether they are marked with Sp or Su. Another person on the listserv said that since it mentions that one can use the bard song ability while in combat (among other things), it can be inferred that one is fully expected to take damage as a bard and that the concentration check is a complete non-issue.

So which way is correct? Since the rulebooks don't seem to say (at least not that I've found) on what happens, either could technically be correct. I'm tended to lean toward the non-issue side, just because it's much simpler and avoids nerfing one of the most-important Bard abilities, but at the same time, performing isn't easy to do when you someone just took a gash out of your side.
smileybob1
07-19-04, 11:07 AM i would hardly say that the book has no info on this. you pretty much answered your own question. spell like abilities draw attacks of opportunity so if you are hit and you take damage you must make a concentration check. super-natural abilities however do not incur an Aoo, therefore they need not worry about concentration. i went ahead and listed each of the bardic songs for reference with its descriptor

Countersong (Su)
Fascinate (Sp)
Inspire Courage (Su)
Inspire Competence (Su)
Suggestion (Sp)
Inspire Greatness (Su)
Song of Freedom (Sp)
Inspire Heroics (Su)
Mass Suggestion (Sp)

and for further reference you can find this in the PHB or the SRD

Some bardic music abilities require concentration, which means the bard must take a standard action each round to maintain the ability. Even while using bardic music that doesn’t require concentration, a bard cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion (such as scrolls), or activate magic items by magic word (such as wands)

and when using a performing skill that does not keep your hands full or require concentration you can fight with a weapon. there is no need to make a concentration check if you get hit in the middle of combat while using one of the songs that does not require concentration.
CaoSlayer
07-19-04, 11:07 AM as it is said:

in the bard songs text, says which songs need concentration, like fascinate while the others dont need at all, so neither cause AoO (you can do anything while singing or playing).

and usually fascinate it is usually useless if can provoque an AoO (dont works in active fights).

so almost never a con check is needed, bards are hard trained in keeping their songs working while they are doing other stuff.
Hoopy Frood
07-19-04, 11:50 AM Originally posted by CaoSlayer
as it is said:

in the bard songs text, says which songs need concentration, like fascinate while the others dont need at all, so neither cause AoO (you can do anything while singing or playing).

and usually fascinate it is usually useless if can provoque an AoO (dont works in active fights).

so almost never a con check is needed, bards are hard trained in keeping their songs working while they are doing other stuff.

Anybody want to translate that?
smileybob1
07-19-04, 02:52 PM are you trying to be funny?

he is not from this country, so there is no need to be rude, just read my post i think you will find it to be quite clear
CaoSlayer
07-20-04, 05:22 AM Originally posted by Hoopy Frood
Anybody want to translate that?

I can write it better, but takes too many time to check the grammar and search the right words in a dictionary.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hoopy Frood 07-19-04, 10:46 AM	The other day a question came across the Verbobonc (Living Greyhawk) listserv about what happens when a bard takes combat damage while performing a song. The poster wanted to know if a concentration check was required or not. Oddly enough, it appears that the PHB makes no mention of the realtion to bardic songs and combat damage. It doesn't even list whether or not a bardic song provokes an Attack of Oppurtunity in the chart of common combat actions. The description of the concentration skill isn't too helpful, either, other than saying a concentration check for taking damage is generally only needed when the action itself would provoke an AoO if performed during combat. However, there are some obvious exceptions not mentioned in the skill description, like concentrating to maintain a spell doesn't provoke an AoO, but would require a skill check if hit with damage. I figured that it might depend on the type of song. Since using spell-like abilities provokes AoO, but using a supernatural ability does not, you could logically extend that to bard songs depending on whether they are marked with Sp or Su. Another person on the listserv said that since it mentions that one can use the bard song ability while in combat (among other things), it can be inferred that one is fully expected to take damage as a bard and that the concentration check is a complete non-issue. So which way is correct? Since the rulebooks don't seem to say (at least not that I've found) on what happens, either could technically be correct. I'm tended to lean toward the non-issue side, just because it's much simpler and avoids nerfing one of the most-important Bard abilities, but at the same time, performing isn't easy to do when you someone just took a gash out of your side.
smileybob1 07-19-04, 11:07 AM	i would hardly say that the book has no info on this. you pretty much answered your own question. spell like abilities draw attacks of opportunity so if you are hit and you take damage you must make a concentration check. super-natural abilities however do not incur an Aoo, therefore they need not worry about concentration. i went ahead and listed each of the bardic songs for reference with its descriptor Countersong (Su) Fascinate (Sp) Inspire Courage (Su) Inspire Competence (Su) Suggestion (Sp) Inspire Greatness (Su) Song of Freedom (Sp) Inspire Heroics (Su) Mass Suggestion (Sp) and for further reference you can find this in the PHB or the SRD Some bardic music abilities require concentration, which means the bard must take a standard action each round to maintain the ability. Even while using bardic music that doesn’t require concentration, a bard cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion (such as scrolls), or activate magic items by magic word (such as wands) and when using a performing skill that does not keep your hands full or require concentration you can fight with a weapon. there is no need to make a concentration check if you get hit in the middle of combat while using one of the songs that does not require concentration.
CaoSlayer 07-19-04, 11:07 AM	as it is said: in the bard songs text, says which songs need concentration, like fascinate while the others dont need at all, so neither cause AoO (you can do anything while singing or playing). and usually fascinate it is usually useless if can provoque an AoO (dont works in active fights). so almost never a con check is needed, bards are hard trained in keeping their songs working while they are doing other stuff.
Hoopy Frood 07-19-04, 11:50 AM	Originally posted by CaoSlayer as it is said: in the bard songs text, says which songs need concentration, like fascinate while the others dont need at all, so neither cause AoO (you can do anything while singing or playing). and usually fascinate it is usually useless if can provoque an AoO (dont works in active fights). so almost never a con check is needed, bards are hard trained in keeping their songs working while they are doing other stuff. Anybody want to translate that?
smileybob1 07-19-04, 02:52 PM	are you trying to be funny? he is not from this country, so there is no need to be rude, just read my post i think you will find it to be quite clear
CaoSlayer 07-20-04, 05:22 AM	Originally posted by Hoopy Frood Anybody want to translate that? I can write it better, but takes too many time to check the grammar and search the right words in a dictionary.