Bard Song - hands free? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bard Song - hands free? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
FeyearthDM
07-07-07, 12:52 PM A bard has ranks only in Perform: percussion instrument, can she use Bard Song if holding (say) a sword and/or torch?
To the larger point: should a bard ever take ranks in Perform other than sing/recite, since it makes sense that any instrument requires 1 hand, and most require 2 (thus limiting combat flexibility)?

:rolleyes:
WackyOne
07-07-07, 01:00 PM With perform: percussion? Easier to do with a mace and an orc.

However, to incite bards to choose something else over vocals, there are quite a bit of enchanted horns or flutes around, and even strange bonuses for using masterwork instruments (should be in the Complete Adventurer).
Then again, for the classic skald, there are only songs (screams at the top of their lungs, to scare the enemy of course :P) and stories (reporting those screams to the younger generations) to perform... (disclamer: I don't know anything about skalds, other than the name - but if I was to sing around in a massive melee battle... I know what I would be doing ;))
Silverclaw
07-07-07, 02:16 PM Perform (dance)
nameneeded
07-07-07, 04:20 PM I have a Derrow that the GM lets me use its Ghost Sound ability as my bardic perform.

More for flavour than rules we know but fun! He waves his wand around like a little conductor when performing. Usally sounds like a small orgastra.
Dazzer
07-07-07, 04:33 PM In theory perform dance can never be used to make bardic music work

SRD states

Bard Class Players Handbook:
A bard can use his song or poetics to produce magical effects on those around him.

Song or poetics. It must have a song or poetic component. All the bard abilities, except countersong strangely enough, state that it must be a song or poem or some kindof making lots of noise thing.

As a DM I allow Perform Dance to work, as long as you express your dancing as loud. Tap Dancing, Dances that involve alot of striking of the self (claps, stomps etc...) But in theory by SRD it doesn't work.
TheRealOrion
07-07-07, 04:47 PM Our bard is a belly dancer with a scimitar (please feel free to picture it, she'd be delighted). She basically dances through the battle but also has chimes and bells sewn into her armour.
Fafnir
07-07-07, 06:54 PM Perform (kazoo). 'Nuff said.
Damuna
07-07-07, 07:13 PM I just claim that my bard has his instrument on a shoulder strap, and so he only needs one hand to play it. :D
mrpopstar
07-07-07, 08:15 PM FeyearthDM:

A bard has ranks only in Perform: percussion instrument, can she use Bard Song if holding (say) a sword and/or torch?I would rule that a Bard would be unable to produce Bardic Music with the banging of a sword or torch unless my chosen campaign setting was explicit in stating that sword and/or torch-banging is taught to bards endeavoring after skill in percussion instruments. :)

To the larger point: should a bard ever take ranks in Perform other than sing/recite, since it makes sense that any instrument requires 1 hand, and most require 2 (thus limiting combat flexibility)?Well, it all depends on what you require from your Bard! If you need him filling in for combat then playing an instrument may not be the best choice. However, if you have the luxury of letting your Bard 'be a Bard', then playing an instrument is a great way to amp up the game for all characters in the party.

Playing an instrument confers various bonuses to the applicable Bardic Music capabilities. Naturally it would behoove a Bard to produce his abilities at maximum efficiency. While limited in melee/ranged combat potential, an instrument playing Bard (Perform: Percussion Instrument +5, MELODIC CASTING, Masterwork Drum) is freely casting spells while producing and maintaining Inspire Courage with an added +1 bonus to weapon damage in comparison to a singing Bard who has full melee/ranged damage potential but a more limited ability to cast spells and lower conferred bonus from Inspire Courage in respect to weapon damage.

Instrument use (albeit Masterwork) also confers a +2 circumstance bonus to Perform checks involving its use. An instrument playing Bard is using Countersong and Fascinate at +2 higher than a singing Bard right out of the box, sans all other applicable bonuses related to either. The instrument playing Bard I used in the example above (having taken MELODIC CASTiNG) is using Countersong to levy the effects of a Command spell cast on his comrade while casting spells into the fray from a safe distance, all while his friends enjoy the instrument maximized benefits of his lingering Inspire Courage he produced in the previous round.

Its one of those party dependant descisions. Is it most beneficial for our Bard to be in combat with his chosen weapon, or is it better he refrain from combat and lend a higher bonus to the efficiency and effectiveness of our combaters? In answer to your question; yes there are many reasons why a Bard should take ranks in Perform other than sing/recite. :)

To the larger point: should a bard ever take ranks in Perform other than sing/recite, since it makes sense that any instrument requires 1 hand, and most require 2 (thus limiting combat flexibility)?I assume your definition of 'combat flexibility' is solely indicative of one's capability with a melee/ranged weapon. The instrument playing Bard in my above example is producing the effects of an augmented Inspire Courage and freely casting spells such as Glitterdust and Grease. He could even remain invisible while doing this since he is taking no offensive actions. This Bard is a singing, battlefield-controlling, friend-buffing, invisible menace that is difficult to deal with considering you are blind, dodging bonus-pumped melee swings from a fighter-type buddy of the Bard, struggling to maintain footing, and bracing against the impacts of a fire-slinging arcane-type buddy of the Bard. Few other classes offer combat flexibility such as that!

Jeesh; even more pressing is that, on average, the example Bard is difficult to decommission considering his Concentration check to maintain spells and Bardic Music effects surpass the disruptive capabilities of encounters of comparable level (MELODIC CASTING allows Perform checks in place of Concentration checks, therefore a Masterwork instrument playing Bard is making checks at +2 before considering all other applicable bonuses). :)

Note: The example instrument playing Bard is a very simple, low-level build who's weight is measured with only a single feat and a masterwork investment. I mention this so as to depict fully the awesome capabilities of an instrument playing Bard who is maximized.
key
07-07-07, 11:08 PM Take comedy and recite limericks and you'll meet any song/poetics requirement. There's a lot of good material on the net.
Fuzzly
07-08-07, 02:25 AM Dance can be poetic. =(

I've played Howard Roark in an interperative dance version of "The Fountainhead"

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
FeyearthDM 07-07-07, 12:52 PM	A bard has ranks only in Perform: percussion instrument, can she use Bard Song if holding (say) a sword and/or torch? To the larger point: should a bard ever take ranks in Perform other than sing/recite, since it makes sense that any instrument requires 1 hand, and most require 2 (thus limiting combat flexibility)? :rolleyes:
WackyOne 07-07-07, 01:00 PM	With perform: percussion? Easier to do with a mace and an orc. However, to incite bards to choose something else over vocals, there are quite a bit of enchanted horns or flutes around, and even strange bonuses for using masterwork instruments (should be in the Complete Adventurer). Then again, for the classic skald, there are only songs (screams at the top of their lungs, to scare the enemy of course :P) and stories (reporting those screams to the younger generations) to perform... (disclamer: I don't know anything about skalds, other than the name - but if I was to sing around in a massive melee battle... I know what I would be doing ;))
Silverclaw 07-07-07, 02:16 PM	Perform (dance)
nameneeded 07-07-07, 04:20 PM	I have a Derrow that the GM lets me use its Ghost Sound ability as my bardic perform. More for flavour than rules we know but fun! He waves his wand around like a little conductor when performing. Usally sounds like a small orgastra.
Dazzer 07-07-07, 04:33 PM	In theory perform dance can never be used to make bardic music work SRD states Bard Class Players Handbook: A bard can use his song or poetics to produce magical effects on those around him. Song or poetics. It must have a song or poetic component. All the bard abilities, except countersong strangely enough, state that it must be a song or poem or some kindof making lots of noise thing. As a DM I allow Perform Dance to work, as long as you express your dancing as loud. Tap Dancing, Dances that involve alot of striking of the self (claps, stomps etc...) But in theory by SRD it doesn't work.
TheRealOrion 07-07-07, 04:47 PM	Our bard is a belly dancer with a scimitar (please feel free to picture it, she'd be delighted). She basically dances through the battle but also has chimes and bells sewn into her armour.
Fafnir 07-07-07, 06:54 PM	Perform (kazoo). 'Nuff said.
Damuna 07-07-07, 07:13 PM	I just claim that my bard has his instrument on a shoulder strap, and so he only needs one hand to play it. :D
mrpopstar 07-07-07, 08:15 PM	FeyearthDM: A bard has ranks only in Perform: percussion instrument, can she use Bard Song if holding (say) a sword and/or torch?I would rule that a Bard would be unable to produce Bardic Music with the banging of a sword or torch unless my chosen campaign setting was explicit in stating that sword and/or torch-banging is taught to bards endeavoring after skill in percussion instruments. :) To the larger point: should a bard ever take ranks in Perform other than sing/recite, since it makes sense that any instrument requires 1 hand, and most require 2 (thus limiting combat flexibility)?Well, it all depends on what you require from your Bard! If you need him filling in for combat then playing an instrument may not be the best choice. However, if you have the luxury of letting your Bard 'be a Bard', then playing an instrument is a great way to amp up the game for all characters in the party. Playing an instrument confers various bonuses to the applicable Bardic Music capabilities. Naturally it would behoove a Bard to produce his abilities at maximum efficiency. While limited in melee/ranged combat potential, an instrument playing Bard (Perform: Percussion Instrument +5, MELODIC CASTING, Masterwork Drum) is freely casting spells while producing and maintaining Inspire Courage with an added +1 bonus to weapon damage in comparison to a singing Bard who has full melee/ranged damage potential but a more limited ability to cast spells and lower conferred bonus from Inspire Courage in respect to weapon damage. Instrument use (albeit Masterwork) also confers a +2 circumstance bonus to Perform checks involving its use. An instrument playing Bard is using Countersong and Fascinate at +2 higher than a singing Bard right out of the box, sans all other applicable bonuses related to either. The instrument playing Bard I used in the example above (having taken MELODIC CASTiNG) is using Countersong to levy the effects of a Command spell cast on his comrade while casting spells into the fray from a safe distance, all while his friends enjoy the instrument maximized benefits of his lingering Inspire Courage he produced in the previous round. Its one of those party dependant descisions. Is it most beneficial for our Bard to be in combat with his chosen weapon, or is it better he refrain from combat and lend a higher bonus to the efficiency and effectiveness of our combaters? In answer to your question; yes there are many reasons why a Bard should take ranks in Perform other than sing/recite. :) To the larger point: should a bard ever take ranks in Perform other than sing/recite, since it makes sense that any instrument requires 1 hand, and most require 2 (thus limiting combat flexibility)?I assume your definition of 'combat flexibility' is solely indicative of one's capability with a melee/ranged weapon. The instrument playing Bard in my above example is producing the effects of an augmented Inspire Courage and freely casting spells such as Glitterdust and Grease. He could even remain invisible while doing this since he is taking no offensive actions. This Bard is a singing, battlefield-controlling, friend-buffing, invisible menace that is difficult to deal with considering you are blind, dodging bonus-pumped melee swings from a fighter-type buddy of the Bard, struggling to maintain footing, and bracing against the impacts of a fire-slinging arcane-type buddy of the Bard. Few other classes offer combat flexibility such as that! Jeesh; even more pressing is that, on average, the example Bard is difficult to decommission considering his Concentration check to maintain spells and Bardic Music effects surpass the disruptive capabilities of encounters of comparable level (MELODIC CASTING allows Perform checks in place of Concentration checks, therefore a Masterwork instrument playing Bard is making checks at +2 before considering all other applicable bonuses). :) Note: The example instrument playing Bard is a very simple, low-level build who's weight is measured with only a single feat and a masterwork investment. I mention this so as to depict fully the awesome capabilities of an instrument playing Bard who is maximized.
key 07-07-07, 11:08 PM	Take comedy and recite limericks and you'll meet any song/poetics requirement. There's a lot of good material on the net.
Fuzzly 07-08-07, 02:25 AM	Dance can be poetic. =( I've played Howard Roark in an interperative dance version of "The Fountainhead"