Bard Songs - Advise on Bard Strategy? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bard Songs - Advise on Bard Strategy? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
jeizhu
08-20-06, 06:10 PM I'm having trouble seeing where Bards shine the most in a campaign - in particular songs like Fascinate. It seems identicle to the spell Hypnotise, but the problem rests in the fact that drawing a sword, casting a spell, and many other factors seems to break fascinate.

Are there circumtances Fascinate is incredibly useful - or even 'tricks of the trade' and various combo's that make this song, or the Hypnotise spell, very useful?

What about other Bard abilities?

- Admittedly, my ulterior motives lie in trying to make a fun, and usefull Bard/Monk class. I haven't looked at any PrC for such a combo yet - that'll have to wait for another time.
Nephlite
08-20-06, 07:19 PM I'm having trouble seeing where Bards shine the most in a campaign - in particular songs like Fascinate. It seems identicle to the spell Hypnotise, but the problem rests in the fact that drawing a sword, casting a spell, and many other factors seems to break fascinate.

True, if you do not beat Initative, you can't fascinate. But most bagttles if win init can be beaten with fascinate/suggestion.

Look at he spell suggestion: a reasonable "suggestion" is take a dip in acid. according to the book.
Krugg
08-21-06, 01:10 AM I'm not too sure about the uses of Fascinate. I never really got a chance to use it when I played a Bard. I can see how you could use it as a decoy to allow your fighter or rogue to sneak around behind the enemy (as long as they don't look hostile...), or at least give allies a few rounds to get ready for another wave of combat, but it seems sort of weak to me. However, at higher levels (as previously mentioned), Suggestion seems like it could be awfully useful.

I do know, on the other hand, that there are a lot of other neat tricks you can do with a Bard that don't require your Bardic Music abilities.

For instance, say you're faced with some sort of relatively strong spellcaster. If you have a lot of ranks in Sleight of Hand, and as long as you are at least 4th level, you can use this trick. Just cast Silence, a 2nd level spell, on a coin, string, or other common item, and then sneak behind him (no need to roll a Move Silently check if you're holding an item that's been Silenced). Use Sleight of Hand to slip the coin into his bag/pouch, put the string somewhere on his clothes, etc. This stops the spellcaster from doing anything with a verbal component for at least 4 rounds. In addition, most things that would help the spellcaster overcome this have verbal components or would at least require him to figure out exactly what the spell has been cast on.

Also, don't forget that you're bound to have high Charisma. Use the Feint or Demoralize options (based on Bluff and Intimidate checks) if you're in combat, which will help you hit later. And outside of combat, why not use Intimidate, Bluff, or Diplomacy on those suspicious NPCs. And let's not forget what's awesome about being a Bard- you can make tons of gold if you make some relatively high rolls on Perform checks in a large town.

By the way, if you're looking at Bard/Monk, you could look into putting ranks in Perform (Weapons Drill). From what I understand, this let's you perform by essentially "practicing" your combat in front of others, and you get to add your BAB to the roll.
Darth Sephiroth
08-21-06, 01:36 AM Perform (Weapon Drill) can't be used with Bardic Music
jeizhu
08-21-06, 01:57 AM Good ideas - and yeah, Weapon Drill wouldn't work with Bardic Music, but I could still probably use it to make money with, perhaps.

The idea sounds really dumb, but I may as well make it public. I was thinking about playing a Hobgoblin Bard/Monk - eventually becoming a Dervish.

And here's the dumb idea. Basically, he's going to breakdance. Perform (Dance) to enhance how many rounds the Dervish can use their daily special abilities. All unarmed 'dancing' combat.

What's worse, the Bard abilities would come out through a combination of dancing and rapping. Not word-based rapping, I wish I knew what it was called, when a person cups their hands to their mouth and breaks out beats through sound effects.

The goal is to make a young, 16 year old, high charisma, martial artist, rapping hob-goblin. Its one part joke, one part serious, and one part stupid idea. Just something to make the guys at the game shop laugh, groan, but still respect in a combat encounter.
Generic Poster
08-21-06, 03:04 AM Krugg,
Why not cast silence on a tanglefoot bag instead? Now the spellcaster is glued to the spot and can't cast any verbal spells.
CaoSlayer
08-21-06, 07:21 AM since monks cant be non-lawful and bards cant be lawful you are going to have a hard time playing that, unless there is one of those feats that allows it.

Considering your character, a strong hobgoblin you should go martial, I recomend you better than monk/bard a fighter/bard/warchanter, get a midly low charisma and only take up to two levels of bard and the rest of fighter/barbarian/ranger until you can get into warchanter.
This combination will allow you to be something like a skald, a fighter who can use bardic music.

Seriously I dont use fascination too much, it is too conditional and unrealiable, the key of the bard it is buffing, with just inspire courage and haste you can make your party fight like demons, there are feats and spells that makes your bardic music stronger.

That it is my advice about a hobgoblin bard.
runestar
08-21-06, 07:25 AM I think the main use of fascinate is to distract the enemies while the rest of your party moves into postion, so in the very least, they are more prepared for battle than they normally would be. :) IE: rogue sneaks into flanking position, spellcasters ready their spells, fighter prepares to charge etc....drawing a weapon is part of your move action, or if you have quick draw... :)
jeizhu
08-21-06, 08:01 AM Yeah, I woke up this morning and realized that alignment issue between Monks and Bards. Blasphemy.

Regardless - with that in mind, if I did want to go with an unarmed character and chose to go Fighter in that regard, is there any way to increase my unarmed damage? Sure, you can get Improved Unarmed Attack - but I don't think your damage will ever scale up, like with a Monk?

Hmm.
CaoSlayer
08-21-06, 09:53 AM The monk´s belt magical item... but still you are going to suck attacking... and you are going to suck casting and singing cause multiclass and LA.

you can use spiked armor that can be enchanted as a weapon and it is close to an unarmed attack.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jeizhu 08-20-06, 06:10 PM	I'm having trouble seeing where Bards shine the most in a campaign - in particular songs like Fascinate. It seems identicle to the spell Hypnotise, but the problem rests in the fact that drawing a sword, casting a spell, and many other factors seems to break fascinate. Are there circumtances Fascinate is incredibly useful - or even 'tricks of the trade' and various combo's that make this song, or the Hypnotise spell, very useful? What about other Bard abilities? - Admittedly, my ulterior motives lie in trying to make a fun, and usefull Bard/Monk class. I haven't looked at any PrC for such a combo yet - that'll have to wait for another time.
Nephlite 08-20-06, 07:19 PM	I'm having trouble seeing where Bards shine the most in a campaign - in particular songs like Fascinate. It seems identicle to the spell Hypnotise, but the problem rests in the fact that drawing a sword, casting a spell, and many other factors seems to break fascinate. True, if you do not beat Initative, you can't fascinate. But most bagttles if win init can be beaten with fascinate/suggestion. Look at he spell suggestion: a reasonable "suggestion" is take a dip in acid. according to the book.
Krugg 08-21-06, 01:10 AM	I'm not too sure about the uses of Fascinate. I never really got a chance to use it when I played a Bard. I can see how you could use it as a decoy to allow your fighter or rogue to sneak around behind the enemy (as long as they don't look hostile...), or at least give allies a few rounds to get ready for another wave of combat, but it seems sort of weak to me. However, at higher levels (as previously mentioned), Suggestion seems like it could be awfully useful. I do know, on the other hand, that there are a lot of other neat tricks you can do with a Bard that don't require your Bardic Music abilities. For instance, say you're faced with some sort of relatively strong spellcaster. If you have a lot of ranks in Sleight of Hand, and as long as you are at least 4th level, you can use this trick. Just cast Silence, a 2nd level spell, on a coin, string, or other common item, and then sneak behind him (no need to roll a Move Silently check if you're holding an item that's been Silenced). Use Sleight of Hand to slip the coin into his bag/pouch, put the string somewhere on his clothes, etc. This stops the spellcaster from doing anything with a verbal component for at least 4 rounds. In addition, most things that would help the spellcaster overcome this have verbal components or would at least require him to figure out exactly what the spell has been cast on. Also, don't forget that you're bound to have high Charisma. Use the Feint or Demoralize options (based on Bluff and Intimidate checks) if you're in combat, which will help you hit later. And outside of combat, why not use Intimidate, Bluff, or Diplomacy on those suspicious NPCs. And let's not forget what's awesome about being a Bard- you can make tons of gold if you make some relatively high rolls on Perform checks in a large town. By the way, if you're looking at Bard/Monk, you could look into putting ranks in Perform (Weapons Drill). From what I understand, this let's you perform by essentially "practicing" your combat in front of others, and you get to add your BAB to the roll.
Darth Sephiroth 08-21-06, 01:36 AM	Perform (Weapon Drill) can't be used with Bardic Music
jeizhu 08-21-06, 01:57 AM	Good ideas - and yeah, Weapon Drill wouldn't work with Bardic Music, but I could still probably use it to make money with, perhaps. The idea sounds really dumb, but I may as well make it public. I was thinking about playing a Hobgoblin Bard/Monk - eventually becoming a Dervish. And here's the dumb idea. Basically, he's going to breakdance. Perform (Dance) to enhance how many rounds the Dervish can use their daily special abilities. All unarmed 'dancing' combat. What's worse, the Bard abilities would come out through a combination of dancing and rapping. Not word-based rapping, I wish I knew what it was called, when a person cups their hands to their mouth and breaks out beats through sound effects. The goal is to make a young, 16 year old, high charisma, martial artist, rapping hob-goblin. Its one part joke, one part serious, and one part stupid idea. Just something to make the guys at the game shop laugh, groan, but still respect in a combat encounter.
Generic Poster 08-21-06, 03:04 AM	Krugg, Why not cast silence on a tanglefoot bag instead? Now the spellcaster is glued to the spot and can't cast any verbal spells.
CaoSlayer 08-21-06, 07:21 AM	since monks cant be non-lawful and bards cant be lawful you are going to have a hard time playing that, unless there is one of those feats that allows it. Considering your character, a strong hobgoblin you should go martial, I recomend you better than monk/bard a fighter/bard/warchanter, get a midly low charisma and only take up to two levels of bard and the rest of fighter/barbarian/ranger until you can get into warchanter. This combination will allow you to be something like a skald, a fighter who can use bardic music. Seriously I dont use fascination too much, it is too conditional and unrealiable, the key of the bard it is buffing, with just inspire courage and haste you can make your party fight like demons, there are feats and spells that makes your bardic music stronger. That it is my advice about a hobgoblin bard.
runestar 08-21-06, 07:25 AM	I think the main use of fascinate is to distract the enemies while the rest of your party moves into postion, so in the very least, they are more prepared for battle than they normally would be. :) IE: rogue sneaks into flanking position, spellcasters ready their spells, fighter prepares to charge etc....drawing a weapon is part of your move action, or if you have quick draw... :)
jeizhu 08-21-06, 08:01 AM	Yeah, I woke up this morning and realized that alignment issue between Monks and Bards. Blasphemy. Regardless - with that in mind, if I did want to go with an unarmed character and chose to go Fighter in that regard, is there any way to increase my unarmed damage? Sure, you can get Improved Unarmed Attack - but I don't think your damage will ever scale up, like with a Monk? Hmm.
CaoSlayer 08-21-06, 09:53 AM	The monk´s belt magical item... but still you are going to suck attacking... and you are going to suck casting and singing cause multiclass and LA. you can use spiked armor that can be enchanted as a weapon and it is close to an unarmed attack.