Bard spell selection help requested. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bard spell selection help requested. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ereanor
02-17-07, 12:45 AM Hi,

9th level bard here looking for some advise regarding my spell choices. I like to play him as support character who will focus on buffing the group first with music and then trying to "disable" out opponents with enchantments. outside of combat I aim to be skill and knowledge oriented(in other words I am the face of the party and use my knowledge and gather information to collect relevant information to accomplish our missions). Listed below are the spells I currently know. Is this list ok and am I missing any "crucial" spells that should be swapped out when the opportunity presents itself? Also what are "must have" spells as I gain levels? I am all ready considering Dominate and Hold Monster for 4th level, Major Image, Displacement, Tiny Hut or Slow(as suggested by DrakaraGM in an earlier thread I posted) for 3rd level and once I get Hold Monster swapping out Hold Person for either Eagle's Splendor, Minor Image(if I don't take Major Image), Shatter or Invisibility.

Thanks.

PS This is an additional post to one I posted earlier regarding bards vs. undead. I'm just trying to get a general sense of my spell selection and if perhaps I am missing some key spells to make my character more useful. I admit I have always played melee-oriented characters and don't really know the value of arcane magic.

Current Spells:
0. Read Magic, Detect Magic, Mending, Message, Prestidigitation, Resistance.
1. Cure Light Wounds, Grease, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Inspirational Boost.
2. Alter Self, Mirror Image, Hold Person, Glitterdust.
3. Glibness, Sculpt Sound, Confusion.

Human Bard 9
Stats:
Str 10
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 16
Wis 10
Cha 18

Current Feats:
Bonus: Improved Initiative
1. Spell Focus; Enchantment
3. Versitile Performer
6. Leadership
9. Subsonics
Upcoming feat selection:
12. Greater Spell Focus; Enchantment
15. Spell Penetration
18. Greater Spell Penetration
CaoSlayer
02-17-07, 04:31 AM take haste, soon or later is one of the best buffs in the game mass targeret and everybody gets a benefit from it.

For another good buff in the future try greater heroism, seems a bad spell because provides morales bonus and so dont stack well with inspire courage, but the +4 to skills and saves is great, cast it in the party´s rogue and he will get a +4 bonus to hide, move silently, search, spot, listen, disable device and open locks.. and a +4 save if he triggers a trap. The only trouble of the spell is that for a 5 level slot you can take better stuff.

Is a shame you didnt tried the sublime chord prc is perfect for a casting bard granting level 9 spellcasting while staying bardic.
Ereanor
02-17-07, 09:37 AM hey, thanks for the advise. I avoided Haste because our sorcerer has it and loves casting at the start of every battle. Greater Heroism is definitely a solid option.

I did consider going into Sublime Chord but decided to stay straight bard. I was actually thinking of dropping Subsonics (as you mentioned in my bard vs. undead thread) and grabbing Weapon Finesse instead. Our group has lost a couple of members lately and my previous character has died so we could really use some melee help.

BTW, I read your Bard Guide often. It is very informative and useful. It is saved in my favorites and I consult it often.
ninjarabbit
02-17-07, 09:48 AM I'd dump cure light wounds, a wand will be just as effective, I'd go with charm person or silent image instead
Deus_Proelii
02-17-07, 04:58 PM My humble opinion is that you should get suggestion instead of hold person. Yes, you have suggestion as a class ability, but in order to use it you have to fascinate a creature first... impossible in impending combat situations where both sides already have their weapons drawn. Now the spell suggestion can be used in combat and certainly against opponents you're engaged in combat with. Just suggest that they join your party in exchange for a share of the loot. Eminently reasonable suggestion there. :D

Hold person on the other hand gives the target a new save every round that it is in effect.

Meanwhile, Charm is a mainly non-combat spell. You can't order a Charmed enemy to go against its basic nature, a caveat which a strict DM might interpret as forbidding lawful creatures from turning against their erstwhile comrades. Suggestion has no such caveat, save that you cannot suggest an obviously suicidal course of action.

I see Charm as being used mainly for non-combat situations with neutral parties... which your fascinate ability would render obsolete. Suggestion meanwhile is good for combat, and a good stopgap till you get Dominate Person.
crowclub
02-17-07, 07:04 PM 2. Alter Self, Mirror Image, Hold Person, Glitterdust.
3. Glibness, Sculpt Sound, Confusion.

2.
Alter Self and Mirror Image are both great spells, but do you really need both? If you're going to use Alter Self for reasons other than to increase your AC (Troglodyte, Crucian) then fine, but if not, they are both defensive spells and I would take Mirror Image over Alter Self as a Bard.
Miser's Envy (SpC) is very effective and great fun (I want those shoes!)
3.
Consider Slow, it's an amazing de-buffer and can decimate a horde of warrior (low Will save) types.
Love's Lament (SpC) 60 ft. Cone, 1d6 Wis damage and Nauseates for 1d4 rounds.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ereanor 02-17-07, 12:45 AM	Hi, 9th level bard here looking for some advise regarding my spell choices. I like to play him as support character who will focus on buffing the group first with music and then trying to "disable" out opponents with enchantments. outside of combat I aim to be skill and knowledge oriented(in other words I am the face of the party and use my knowledge and gather information to collect relevant information to accomplish our missions). Listed below are the spells I currently know. Is this list ok and am I missing any "crucial" spells that should be swapped out when the opportunity presents itself? Also what are "must have" spells as I gain levels? I am all ready considering Dominate and Hold Monster for 4th level, Major Image, Displacement, Tiny Hut or Slow(as suggested by DrakaraGM in an earlier thread I posted) for 3rd level and once I get Hold Monster swapping out Hold Person for either Eagle's Splendor, Minor Image(if I don't take Major Image), Shatter or Invisibility. Thanks. PS This is an additional post to one I posted earlier regarding bards vs. undead. I'm just trying to get a general sense of my spell selection and if perhaps I am missing some key spells to make my character more useful. I admit I have always played melee-oriented characters and don't really know the value of arcane magic. Current Spells: 0. Read Magic, Detect Magic, Mending, Message, Prestidigitation, Resistance. 1. Cure Light Wounds, Grease, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Inspirational Boost. 2. Alter Self, Mirror Image, Hold Person, Glitterdust. 3. Glibness, Sculpt Sound, Confusion. Human Bard 9 Stats: Str 10 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 16 Wis 10 Cha 18 Current Feats: Bonus: Improved Initiative 1. Spell Focus; Enchantment 3. Versitile Performer 6. Leadership 9. Subsonics Upcoming feat selection: 12. Greater Spell Focus; Enchantment 15. Spell Penetration 18. Greater Spell Penetration
CaoSlayer 02-17-07, 04:31 AM	take haste, soon or later is one of the best buffs in the game mass targeret and everybody gets a benefit from it. For another good buff in the future try greater heroism, seems a bad spell because provides morales bonus and so dont stack well with inspire courage, but the +4 to skills and saves is great, cast it in the party´s rogue and he will get a +4 bonus to hide, move silently, search, spot, listen, disable device and open locks.. and a +4 save if he triggers a trap. The only trouble of the spell is that for a 5 level slot you can take better stuff. Is a shame you didnt tried the sublime chord prc is perfect for a casting bard granting level 9 spellcasting while staying bardic.
Ereanor 02-17-07, 09:37 AM	hey, thanks for the advise. I avoided Haste because our sorcerer has it and loves casting at the start of every battle. Greater Heroism is definitely a solid option. I did consider going into Sublime Chord but decided to stay straight bard. I was actually thinking of dropping Subsonics (as you mentioned in my bard vs. undead thread) and grabbing Weapon Finesse instead. Our group has lost a couple of members lately and my previous character has died so we could really use some melee help. BTW, I read your Bard Guide often. It is very informative and useful. It is saved in my favorites and I consult it often.
ninjarabbit 02-17-07, 09:48 AM	I'd dump cure light wounds, a wand will be just as effective, I'd go with charm person or silent image instead
Deus_Proelii 02-17-07, 04:58 PM	My humble opinion is that you should get suggestion instead of hold person. Yes, you have suggestion as a class ability, but in order to use it you have to fascinate a creature first... impossible in impending combat situations where both sides already have their weapons drawn. Now the spell suggestion can be used in combat and certainly against opponents you're engaged in combat with. Just suggest that they join your party in exchange for a share of the loot. Eminently reasonable suggestion there. :D Hold person on the other hand gives the target a new save every round that it is in effect. Meanwhile, Charm is a mainly non-combat spell. You can't order a Charmed enemy to go against its basic nature, a caveat which a strict DM might interpret as forbidding lawful creatures from turning against their erstwhile comrades. Suggestion has no such caveat, save that you cannot suggest an obviously suicidal course of action. I see Charm as being used mainly for non-combat situations with neutral parties... which your fascinate ability would render obsolete. Suggestion meanwhile is good for combat, and a good stopgap till you get Dominate Person.
crowclub 02-17-07, 07:04 PM	2. Alter Self, Mirror Image, Hold Person, Glitterdust. 3. Glibness, Sculpt Sound, Confusion. 2. Alter Self and Mirror Image are both great spells, but do you really need both? If you're going to use Alter Self for reasons other than to increase your AC (Troglodyte, Crucian) then fine, but if not, they are both defensive spells and I would take Mirror Image over Alter Self as a Bard. Miser's Envy (SpC) is very effective and great fun (I want those shoes!) 3. Consider Slow, it's an amazing de-buffer and can decimate a horde of warrior (low Will save) types. Love's Lament (SpC) 60 ft. Cone, 1d6 Wis damage and Nauseates for 1d4 rounds.