Bard Tweak - Balance Issues? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bard Tweak - Balance Issues? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Angered Roach
03-07-04, 03:49 PM Okay, in a campaign i'm running, I want to make a little fix for Bards. Not a big, humongously complex change...just giving them the more Martial BAB progression (BAB = Level, as a fighter).

Now, before you start going "What?!", allow me to explain myself. Now...the Bard is often cited as a Jack Of All Trades class. They've got their fingers in everything, supposedly, but aren't a master of any of it. Now...does the Bard -really- have it's fingers in Melee? No more so than a rogue.

Also, it's not as though Bards will suddenly start replacing Fighters with this BAB progression, not any more so than a Ranger does, infact, probably far less than a Ranger. They first of all tend to not have very good STR or CON due to necessity of most other stats. Additionally, like Rangers, It's almost a necessity for them to wear Light armours, so they don't have great AC. And finally, abominal hit dice prevents them from being uber-meleers.

Now, all that aside, you may wonder "Why?"? Well, think about it this way. Before they became the PCs that they are, they probably did alot of traveling, and chances are saw a fair bit of combat along the way. Secondly, Bards are often described as having minds for epic deeds and grand heroism, so it would stand to reason that many of them would practice the art of sword play a fair bit before becoming a PC...at least more so than say, a cleric, druid, or rogue.

All that aside...what balance issues do you all think there would be with a Bard having a Fighter's BAB progression?
BlaineTog
03-07-04, 04:16 PM Originally posted by Angered Roach
Secondly, Bards are often described as having minds for epic deeds and grand heroism, so it would stand to reason that many of them would practice the art of sword play a fair bit before becoming a PC...at least more so than say, a cleric, druid, or rogue.All those epic deeds? 'Twas told to you in a song by a bar,d yes yes? Yeah: those are known as "exaggerations." :schemes:

All that aside...what balance issues do you all think there would be with a Bard having a Fighter's BAB progression?Well, quite a few, actually. You suddenly have a bard that can be better than a ranger at archery. That's a little strange.

I don't think a martial bard would be a bad idea, but you'de need to take something from them to balance it.
Serath_Aunik
03-07-04, 04:24 PM First off bards are my favorite class, been playing them since 2nd ed. and they have absolutely no need of a fighter's BAB. Bards are a definative support class, ie they excel at nothing. by making this change you haven't taken into account any other bard abilities, such as music, you can fight while you use music and a higher BAB would create a marvelous killing machine. Also don't forget the bard's large collection of buffs, many of them self buffs, coupled with the ability to wear light armor while casting. Altogether these make a formidable character. Adding a fighter's BAB would make the class terribly broken.

As a side note i've run several melee bards and the lower BAB didn't hinder my effectiveness overall, i was average, not bad, not good average, which is exactly what a bard is supposed to be
Angered Roach
03-07-04, 04:24 PM Well, The rangers that are overly concerned about Archery still get their Combat Style: Archery stuff. Your average bard and average ranger will probably be about even on the archery stuff, they tend to have the same DEX scores, and with the same BAB progressions...

I suppose I could agree with -something- being taken away, or nerfed a bit...but what? Hmm..
zodiki
03-07-04, 04:31 PM Bards don't get any bonus fighter feats like rangers and fighters so I don't see how having a better BAB will break the balance. If it entices more people to play bards, that can only be a good thing.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Angered Roach 03-07-04, 03:49 PM	Okay, in a campaign i'm running, I want to make a little fix for Bards. Not a big, humongously complex change...just giving them the more Martial BAB progression (BAB = Level, as a fighter). Now, before you start going "What?!", allow me to explain myself. Now...the Bard is often cited as a Jack Of All Trades class. They've got their fingers in everything, supposedly, but aren't a master of any of it. Now...does the Bard -really- have it's fingers in Melee? No more so than a rogue. Also, it's not as though Bards will suddenly start replacing Fighters with this BAB progression, not any more so than a Ranger does, infact, probably far less than a Ranger. They first of all tend to not have very good STR or CON due to necessity of most other stats. Additionally, like Rangers, It's almost a necessity for them to wear Light armours, so they don't have great AC. And finally, abominal hit dice prevents them from being uber-meleers. Now, all that aside, you may wonder "Why?"? Well, think about it this way. Before they became the PCs that they are, they probably did alot of traveling, and chances are saw a fair bit of combat along the way. Secondly, Bards are often described as having minds for epic deeds and grand heroism, so it would stand to reason that many of them would practice the art of sword play a fair bit before becoming a PC...at least more so than say, a cleric, druid, or rogue. All that aside...what balance issues do you all think there would be with a Bard having a Fighter's BAB progression?
BlaineTog 03-07-04, 04:16 PM	Originally posted by Angered Roach Secondly, Bards are often described as having minds for epic deeds and grand heroism, so it would stand to reason that many of them would practice the art of sword play a fair bit before becoming a PC...at least more so than say, a cleric, druid, or rogue.All those epic deeds? 'Twas told to you in a song by a bar,d yes yes? Yeah: those are known as "exaggerations." :schemes: All that aside...what balance issues do you all think there would be with a Bard having a Fighter's BAB progression?Well, quite a few, actually. You suddenly have a bard that can be better than a ranger at archery. That's a little strange. I don't think a martial bard would be a bad idea, but you'de need to take something from them to balance it.
Serath_Aunik 03-07-04, 04:24 PM	First off bards are my favorite class, been playing them since 2nd ed. and they have absolutely no need of a fighter's BAB. Bards are a definative support class, ie they excel at nothing. by making this change you haven't taken into account any other bard abilities, such as music, you can fight while you use music and a higher BAB would create a marvelous killing machine. Also don't forget the bard's large collection of buffs, many of them self buffs, coupled with the ability to wear light armor while casting. Altogether these make a formidable character. Adding a fighter's BAB would make the class terribly broken. As a side note i've run several melee bards and the lower BAB didn't hinder my effectiveness overall, i was average, not bad, not good average, which is exactly what a bard is supposed to be
Angered Roach 03-07-04, 04:24 PM	Well, The rangers that are overly concerned about Archery still get their Combat Style: Archery stuff. Your average bard and average ranger will probably be about even on the archery stuff, they tend to have the same DEX scores, and with the same BAB progressions... I suppose I could agree with -something- being taken away, or nerfed a bit...but what? Hmm..
zodiki 03-07-04, 04:31 PM	Bards don't get any bonus fighter feats like rangers and fighters so I don't see how having a better BAB will break the balance. If it entices more people to play bards, that can only be a good thing.