Bard Variants seem popular lately! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bard Variants seem popular lately! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Xylem
01-28-07, 12:48 PM I've been noticing a lot of Bard variants on these boards lately -- something in the air, perhaps?

There have been:

Bard Varient: The Eclectic (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=780682) by kouryuu_the_leviathan;
The Definitive Bard (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=780538) by Rudiger_Smith;
Variant Bard: The Soulsinger (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=775126) by Rudiger_Smith;
Variant Bard: Warrior Bard (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=771954) by Xylem;
Spell-less variant Bard v.2 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=762266) by Shadowfax7;
Bard Revamp (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=769581) by CroupandVandemar;
The Hymnist (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11101692&postcount=5) by Otto the Bugbear;
The Skald (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11101696&postcount=6) by Otto the Bugbear; and
Non-Spellcasting Bard Variant (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=782186) by Yuri_Zhivago.

And I would not be surprised to have missed some. Looking these over, it seems to me that a primary motivation is not so much dissatisfaction with the mechanics of the class as a desire to tinker with the class' flavor. Many of these are attempts to change the fantasy archetype that the Bard fills, which is understandable, since Bards of the D&D sort are rare outside celtic fantasy and myth.

Even big names are not immune to this urge, consider Keith Baker's Thoughtsinger (http://www.bossythecow.com/TheThoughtsinger.pdf) class -- it's essentially a psionic Bard.
CroupandVandemar
02-01-07, 03:56 AM I actually attemped one of these failed attemps with a bard variant. Sadly I had no good feedback, I still think I didn't do a horrible job; since to me, the bard is the all around helper to any party and she is never not appreciated. Ergo: my additions that only help out the party ever-so much more. P.E.A.C.H. :)
Otto the Bugbear
02-01-07, 07:04 AM Hymnist (divine bard) and
Skald (savage bard) in my sig. Complete with alternate bardic music.
Xylem
02-01-07, 09:06 AM Hymnist (divine bard) and
Skald (savage bard) in my sig. Complete with alternate bardic music.
I added them to my list (note: I am not proposing to maintain a list of all variant Bards (that way lies madness), but for the moment I'll add ones people give me links for).

In Urban Arcana (the D20 Modern fantasy book), there are a number of illustrations of a Bugbear named Leonard, who dresses in a well-tailored three-piece suit. After reading your post, I now have the image of him carrying a violin case. It is not a reassuring image...

Edit: Here's Leonard:http://www.wizards.com/d20modern/images/ua_gallery/50023.jpg
Johnny_Angel
02-01-07, 03:59 PM I hate to be a buzzkill, but most of these "variant" bards are already covered by prestigue classes that were designed for the bard. I'm not saying any of the rewrites are bad; I just don't see the need to revamp the bard.

If you want a more combat oriented bard you can either take levels as a War Chanter or a Warrior Skald.

If you want a bard with some crazy supernatural abilities you can take levels as a Seeker Of Song.

I'm only scratching the surface; there are plenty of others such as Sublime Chord, Dirge Singer, and more.

Again, I'm not saying any of the variants that are popping up are bad; I'm just not sure that I believe the bard needs a rewrite. The bard doesn't have to be just a back up party member if they don't want to; it is possible to gear a bard toward fighting, healing, and/or spellcasting if you don't want to be the jack-of-all trades sort of bard.
Xylem
02-01-07, 05:06 PM I hate to be a buzzkill, but most of these "variant" bards are already covered by prestigue classes that were designed for the bard. I'm not saying any of the rewrites are bad; I just don't see the need to revamp the bard.
Unless you start at advanced levels, prestige classes don't help with the character's flavor, and as I noted above, these changes are primarily in search of a different flavor than the standard Bard.
Johnny_Angel
02-01-07, 07:28 PM Unless you start at advanced levels, prestige classes don't help with the character's flavor, and as I noted above, these changes are primarily in search of a different flavor than the standard Bard.

Well, yeah, I can definately see your point there. Again, I'm not against having variant classes; having more options is a good thing. I was just trying to point out that a lot of the "variants" mimic bard PrCs which are already available. As for a lower leveled character, I suppose I didn't really look at it that way, but I don't see why flavor is based on mechanics; I always felt that flavor was more of a fluff and roleplay aspect of the character. Again, I'm not saying that variants are bad; if it fits better in your campaign, that's all that really matters. I was just giving my opinion.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Xylem 01-28-07, 12:48 PM	I've been noticing a lot of Bard variants on these boards lately -- something in the air, perhaps? There have been: Bard Varient: The Eclectic (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=780682) by kouryuu_the_leviathan; The Definitive Bard (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=780538) by Rudiger_Smith; Variant Bard: The Soulsinger (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=775126) by Rudiger_Smith; Variant Bard: Warrior Bard (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=771954) by Xylem; Spell-less variant Bard v.2 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=762266) by Shadowfax7; Bard Revamp (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=769581) by CroupandVandemar; The Hymnist (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11101692&postcount=5) by Otto the Bugbear; The Skald (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11101696&postcount=6) by Otto the Bugbear; and Non-Spellcasting Bard Variant (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=782186) by Yuri_Zhivago. And I would not be surprised to have missed some. Looking these over, it seems to me that a primary motivation is not so much dissatisfaction with the mechanics of the class as a desire to tinker with the class' flavor. Many of these are attempts to change the fantasy archetype that the Bard fills, which is understandable, since Bards of the D&D sort are rare outside celtic fantasy and myth. Even big names are not immune to this urge, consider Keith Baker's Thoughtsinger (http://www.bossythecow.com/TheThoughtsinger.pdf) class -- it's essentially a psionic Bard.
CroupandVandemar 02-01-07, 03:56 AM	I actually attemped one of these failed attemps with a bard variant. Sadly I had no good feedback, I still think I didn't do a horrible job; since to me, the bard is the all around helper to any party and she is never not appreciated. Ergo: my additions that only help out the party ever-so much more. P.E.A.C.H. :)
Otto the Bugbear 02-01-07, 07:04 AM	Hymnist (divine bard) and Skald (savage bard) in my sig. Complete with alternate bardic music.
Xylem 02-01-07, 09:06 AM	Hymnist (divine bard) and Skald (savage bard) in my sig. Complete with alternate bardic music. I added them to my list (note: I am not proposing to maintain a list of all variant Bards (that way lies madness), but for the moment I'll add ones people give me links for). In Urban Arcana (the D20 Modern fantasy book), there are a number of illustrations of a Bugbear named Leonard, who dresses in a well-tailored three-piece suit. After reading your post, I now have the image of him carrying a violin case. It is not a reassuring image... Edit: Here's Leonard:http://www.wizards.com/d20modern/images/ua_gallery/50023.jpg
Johnny_Angel 02-01-07, 03:59 PM	I hate to be a buzzkill, but most of these "variant" bards are already covered by prestigue classes that were designed for the bard. I'm not saying any of the rewrites are bad; I just don't see the need to revamp the bard. If you want a more combat oriented bard you can either take levels as a War Chanter or a Warrior Skald. If you want a bard with some crazy supernatural abilities you can take levels as a Seeker Of Song. I'm only scratching the surface; there are plenty of others such as Sublime Chord, Dirge Singer, and more. Again, I'm not saying any of the variants that are popping up are bad; I'm just not sure that I believe the bard needs a rewrite. The bard doesn't have to be just a back up party member if they don't want to; it is possible to gear a bard toward fighting, healing, and/or spellcasting if you don't want to be the jack-of-all trades sort of bard.
Xylem 02-01-07, 05:06 PM	I hate to be a buzzkill, but most of these "variant" bards are already covered by prestigue classes that were designed for the bard. I'm not saying any of the rewrites are bad; I just don't see the need to revamp the bard. Unless you start at advanced levels, prestige classes don't help with the character's flavor, and as I noted above, these changes are primarily in search of a different flavor than the standard Bard.
Johnny_Angel 02-01-07, 07:28 PM	Unless you start at advanced levels, prestige classes don't help with the character's flavor, and as I noted above, these changes are primarily in search of a different flavor than the standard Bard. Well, yeah, I can definately see your point there. Again, I'm not against having variant classes; having more options is a good thing. I was just trying to point out that a lot of the "variants" mimic bard PrCs which are already available. As for a lower leveled character, I suppose I didn't really look at it that way, but I don't see why flavor is based on mechanics; I always felt that flavor was more of a fluff and roleplay aspect of the character. Again, I'm not saying that variants are bad; if it fits better in your campaign, that's all that really matters. I was just giving my opinion.