Post/Author/DateTime	Post
EvilVegan 02-08-07, 01:15 PM	Why are all bards forced to be inspirational? Why not a depressing, reverse bard? They could sing about their girlfriend leaving them . . . These could be done as bard feats, but I'm imagining more of a "bardic style", similar to "combat style" for rangers. I was also wondering if there were any other effects that a bard could possibly pull off. Perhaps pull abilities from PrCs and make them feats or class chains? Why? I'm bored at work and I don't have any books on me. The bardic music progression is currently set up like this: 1st Fascinate (Enchantment ability) Countersong (Anti-sound ability) Primary Focus Ability (standard bard is inspiration) 3rd level they get a secondary focus ability that is in the same vein as their primary focus, but less combat oriented (competence for standard bard) 6th level they get suggestion. (Enchantment ability) 8th they get primary +2 9th they get a tertiary focus ability. This affects less targets but has a greater effect. 12th they get song of freedom. This removes several negative effects. Similar in flavor to counter song, this is a primarly defensive/restorative ability. 14th they get primary +3 15th they get their final ability tied to their focus 18th they get mass suggestion, another enchantment ability. 20th they get primary +4 7 inspire based (4 abilities, 3 improvements). 3 Linked Enchantment. 2 Counter measures. So how about these variants, I'm pulling these out of nowhere as I type, so please help correct any glaring balance issues and suggest changes or new variants: Foci Speed Focus Primary Focus: Elicit Speed (no comments about MMORPGS!), +1 dodge bonus to AC, to hit, and reflex saves (+2/+3/+4), +10 enhancement to speed (+30/+60/+90). Secondary Focus: Elicit Endurance. As long as bard maintains song all allies who hear him may hustle overland without accruing penalties until the end of their journey. At the end of the journey they take the full non-lethal damage they would have taken and are fatigued. A bard may maintain this song for 8 hours without problem. Each hour after the 8th requires a concentration check (DC = 15 + 2 per hour after the 8th) to maintain the song. Tertiary Focus: Elicit haste. Target creature gains one extra attack on a full attack at highest Attack Bonus, +2 competence bonus to hit. Final Focus: Elicit Alacrity. Target creature gains one extra standard action or move action per round. Rage Focus Primary Focus: Incite Rage +2 str/con (+4 /+6 /+8 ), -2 AC and fatigue afterwards. The effect lasts for as long as the ally hears the bard sing and for up to 5 rounds thereafter. Secondary Focus: Incite Force +4 on strength checks to smash, break, or burst things. Also treat strength as 4 higher for purposes of encumbrance/lifting. These effects last for as long as the bard continues singing to a maximum of 2 minutes. Tertiary Focus: Incite Frenzy. Target must succeed at a will save (DC = 10 + half bard level + cha mod) or fly into a frenzy. This grants the subject +6 strength and Constitution, -4 AC and they are forced to attack the nearest available target regardless of friendship. While in a frenzy the subject takes 1 point of nonlethal damage every round. Frenzy lasts for a number of rounds equal to 3 + their newly improved constitution modifier or for as long as the bard maintains concentration, whichever is shorter. When frenzy ends the subject is fatigued. Incite frenzy is a mind-affecting ability. Final Focus: Incite Devastation. Target gains +4 bonus on Sunder, Bullrush, and Overrun attempts. Target gains +8 bonus to grapple checks. The effect lasts for as long as the ally hears the bard sing and for up to 5 rounds thereafter. Despair Focus Primary Focus: Instigate Despair. Will save (DC = 10 +1/2 bard level + cha mod) or suffer -1 penalty to hit, damage, saves vs fear/charm (-2/-3/-4). Secondary Focus: Instigate Failure. Will save (DC = 10 +1/2 bard level + cha mod) or suffer -4 on all skill checks. Tertiary Focus: Instigate Worthlessness. Will save (DC = 10 +1/2 bard level + cha mod) or gain 2 negative levels. Final Focus: Instigate Cowardace. Will save (DC = 10 +1/2 bard level + cha mod) or suffer -4 penalty to AC and saves. Inspiration Focus Primary Focus: Inspire Courage. As standard bard. Secondary Focus: Inspire Competence. As standard bard. Tertiary Focus: Inspire Greatness. As standard bard. Final Focus: Inspire Heroics. As standard bard. Counters Movement Primary Counter: Song of movement. May sing to grant others the ability to move when they'd otherwise be unable to do so. Dazed creatures may make a single move action while dazed. Entangled creatures may move at normal speed if unanchored. Fatigued targets can charge (but cannot run). Exhausted targets move at full speed (but cannot charge or run). Blinded creatures move at full speed. Cowering creatuers may move at half speed. Stunned and flat-footed creatures may take a 5-foot step. Dead creatures can move 6-feet straight down, if assisted by a person with a shovel. Secondary Counter: Song of freedom (of movement). One target within 30 feet gains freedom of movement as the spell while bard maintains concentration. A bard can't use song of freedom of movement on himself. Rest Primary Counter: Stave off Tiredness While the bard sings and maintains concentration all feelings of fatigue and exhaustion are supressed. All allies within 30 feet are immune to the effects of fatigue, exhaustion, or sleep while they are capable of hearing the bard. When the bard ceases to sing the full effects of fatigue, exhaustion, and sleep return and the duration of the song does not count towards the duration of any spells or effects that create fatigue, exhaustion, or sleep. Secondary Counter: Song of Restfulness. Removes the effects of fatigue. Changes exhaustion to fatigue. Takes 10 minutes of uninterrupted concentration and music. Enchantment Counters Primary Counter: Countersong. As standard bard. Secondary Counter: Song of Freedom. As standard bard. Enchantments Fear Primary Enchantment: Cower. Subject must succeed at a will save (DC = perform check result) or cower in fear. This is an enchantment (compulsion), mind-affecting, fear effect. (Otherwise same as fascinate. Can't be done during combat. Broken by potential/obvious threats.) Linked Enchantment: Frighten. A creature must succeed on a will save (DC = 10 + 1/2 bard level + cha mod) or be frightened by the bard. (A frightened creature flees from the source of its fear unless unable to do so. They take -2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks. They may use special abilities including spells to flee and must do so if that is their only means.) Mass Enchantment: Mass Frighten. As frighten, but affects any number of creatures already cowered. Sleep Enchantment Primary Enchantment: Lullaby. The bard sings a lullaby that causes the target to be slightly drowsy. They are effectively fascinated. Linked Enchantment: Greater Lullaby. Subjects under the effects of lullaby must make a will save (DC = 10 + half-bard level + cha mod) or fall asleep for 1 minute per bard level. Mass Enchantment: Mass lullaby. As greater lullaby but affects any number of creatures lullaby affected by lullaby. Fascination Enchantment Primary Enchantment: Fascinate. As standard bard. Linked Enchantment: Suggestion. As standard bard. Mass Enchantment: Suggestion, Mass. As standard bard. Well that's a few I could think of off the top of my head. Anyone else got any suggestions?
JulesCARV 02-08-07, 01:19 PM	Now I'm trying to figure out whether Cacofonix would be a despair bard or a fear-oriented enchantment bard.
EvilVegan 02-08-07, 02:01 PM	Both? You have to pick a focus and an enchantment line.' But he would most likely belong to my PrC of greensingers that can call weather.
Archangel62 02-08-07, 02:35 PM	Well, ther is the dirge singer prestige class in Libris Mortis. My own opinon on the issue is that they figured it was easier to give the bard buffing class abilities and debuffing spells.
JulesCARV 02-08-07, 02:46 PM	Both? You have to pick a focus and an enchantment line.' But he would most likely belong to my PrC of greensingers that can call weather. Oh, I get it! Whoops. I misunderstood your post at first.
EvilVegan 02-08-07, 03:41 PM	Well, ther is the dirge singer prestige class in Libris Mortis. My own opinon on the issue is that they figured it was easier to give the bard buffing class abilities and debuffing spells. Easier is boring! Why not give them debuffing abilities and buffing spells? :)
EvilVegan 02-08-07, 04:19 PM	Additional variants I thought might be cool but don't feel like writing up entirely: Foci Spell Focus: Improves spell casting abilities of self and allies. (Improve save DC +1/+2/+3/+4; Improve resting abilities for spell preparation/recovery;Improve metamagic application;Improve overcoming spell resistance) Nature Focus not sure what this would do specifically, but it would involve plants, weather, animals, and energy resistance. Healing Focus grants fast healing (1,2,4,8); perform check in place of heal checks for longterm care; Bonus temporary hit points; regeneration 10. All require concentration and don't last the extra 5 rounds after stopping. Righteousness: Grants bonuses for attacking members of particular alignment or faction (+bard's cha mod to hit, + 1/2 bard's level to damage, once per song); bonus on diplomacy checks with regards to same faction/alignment; inspire grace (Add bard's charisma to saves and immune to fear); zeal (target fights without regards to hit points until effect wears off, like deathless frenzy). Counters Ability Damage / Status Condition counter. Starts by suppressing ability damage, penalties, daze, staggered, nauseated, etc. Secondary eliminates ability damage, drain, and status effects (as heal without hp healing). Mind control/alignment change counters: Prevents mind control from functioning like a protection from alignment spell. Secondary functions like atonement. Enchantments Domination enchantment: Starts with a friendly demeanor (diplomacy check, but really perform). Goes to Dominate Person and then Mass Charm Monster. Harder to pull off somehow. Conversion: Begins with diplomacy check. Secondary does a conversion effect that changes alignment (like evangelist or Emissary of Barachiel). Mass does a mass conversion. The more powerful abilities above would come with more restrictions (like righteousness requiring an alignment).
kadeity 02-08-07, 04:43 PM	Why are all bards forced to be inspirational? Why not a depressing, reverse bard? They could sing about their girlfriend leaving them . . . ....Despair Focus Primary Focus: Instigate Despair. Will save (DC = 10 +1/2 bard level + cha mod) or suffer -1 penalty to hit, damage, saves vs fear/charm (-2/-3/-4). Secondary Focus: Instigate Failure. Will save (DC = 10 +1/2 bard level + cha mod) or suffer -4 on all skill checks. Tertiary Focus: Instigate Worthlessness. Will save (DC = 10 +1/2 bard level + cha mod) or gain 2 negative levels. Final Focus: Instigate Cowardace. Will save (DC = 10 +1/2 bard level + cha mod) or suffer -4 penalty to AC and saves. They have this. Called Harbinger. its a bardic music variant in Dragon Magazine. Issue 337 i think. Similar to yours, except the last one grants negative levels. They keep suggestion & fascinate too.
Skerlnik 02-09-07, 10:10 PM	Heh heh, an Emo Bard..... Dresses in black, always whines to the party that nobody understands him, etc.
Jaxgaret 02-09-07, 11:05 PM	They have this. Called Harbinger. its a bardic music variant in Dragon Magazine. Issue 337 i think. Similar to yours, except the last one grants negative levels. They keep suggestion & fascinate too. Yep, Dragon 337. It's eerie how similar the OP's changes were to the Harbinger's... do I smell a CoC violation?
EvilVegan 02-10-07, 11:17 AM	I hope not. I've haven't read a dragon magazine in over a decade. Also, I'd be a bit miffed if just putting a "-" in front of the standard bard abilities was seen as copying from a dragon magazine.
Regularguy 02-10-07, 03:59 PM	No accusations or anything, but I'd like to suggest the 2e Bard kits: Chanters who screw with enemy initiative, Thespian con artists who ruin the opposition's morale, Jesters who taunt people into making foolish mistakes -- oh, and the knife-throwing juggler type who can just plain make foes run the heck away, provided he cinematically swings his arms to and fro while showing that he can twirl a blade wherever he feels like putting it. Plus, they threw in guys who didn't do inspirational stuff or "depressing, reverse bard" stuff: Charlatans who excel at faking skills and swindling money, Gallants who charm the heck out of people but only ever rack up bonuses for themselves, all of it. Update any of it for 3e and it might stick pretty well.