Bard without the Music [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bard without the Music [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Favored Enemy
12-22-04, 11:38 PM I'm trying to work on an NPC Bard for my campaign. I'd like him to fit the theme of the Bard, being a jack-of-all-trades and knowing a little bit about everything. A seasoned traveler very familiar with the world.

However, I don't want to include the whole music/singing/performing thing.

What is the best way to minimize this aspect of the Bard? It seems very difficult since its practically the Bard's whole special nature. Also, no multiclassing.
Lotus Crane
12-22-04, 11:43 PM You realize that (Oratory) is one of the Perform subtypes, right? So you don't have to sing or play an instrument or do any other kind of actual "performance" it can be as simple as a rousing battlecry, a stirring speech, a relevant anecdote, or an entertaining story, any of which can reflect his years of experience without actually making him seem too spoony.
shadow mage
12-22-04, 11:58 PM I'm trying to work on an NPC Bard for my campaign. I'd like him to fit the theme of the Bard, being a jack-of-all-trades and knowing a little bit about everything. A seasoned traveler very familiar with the world.

However, I don't want to include the whole music/singing/performing thing.
You want a bard that's not a bard? :confused:

Here's a couple easily accessible definitions.

1. One of an ancient Celtic order of minstrel poets who composed and recited verses celebrating the legendary exploits of chieftains and heroes.

2. A poet, especially a lyric poet.

The music thing I can understand. Not all story-tellers are proficient with music. The performing thing I oculd never understand, because that is what a bard does. They perform, put on shows, act, all of that. Bards are by definition storytellers.

That said, take Lotus Crane's advice and just put plenty of skill points into Perform (oratory). How you can tell a story that'll produce the effects of bardic "music" is another story, but I like to entertain the thought of inspire heroics being merely a badly told story that is so greatly irritating friendly PCs do everything to get away from it, even take on enormous odds with renewed vigor. ;)
bard_4_life
12-23-04, 01:11 AM You could always just make him a mime :).

But seriously, a bard without music is just not a bard. Some possible alternatives for a bard that pop into my head are drumming, whistling, humming, chanting, tap dancing, spoon-slapping, bee-boping (I'm running low here, bear with me), clapping, body noise making, grass whistling, and doing that weird thing where you run your finger over glasses with liquid in them to make different pitches. But then again, all of these can be technically considered music.
Nani?
12-23-04, 01:56 AM Why not try either an expert or a rogue. Perhaps consider the appropiate racial paradign classes from UA.

All the Best,

Nani?
Razoreface
12-23-04, 03:01 AM Maybe he wants the magic too.

Bard without being annoyingly lyrical? Don't take ranks in Perform, don't use the bardic music abilities. It's not really crippling, but you might have players whining about the character not inspiring them, but you can ignore that. :) People I play with tend to be whiney because my clerics don't buff, and most of their spells are gone when they want the healing train to come around, and my bards have better things to do than inspire.
Psyker Nel'Restynn
12-23-04, 03:17 AM hmm I knwo what you're talking about.

A Bard who isnt a damn minstrel

Lets see, keep skill points the same, keep bardic knowledge (change the name to Wanderer's Intuition or something), give him d10 HD, take away spell casting, extra feats say every three or four levels.

Now you got your Jack-of-All-Trades, who can kick ass.

;)
Razoreface
12-23-04, 03:30 AM No reason to change the class.. you just don't use something that's there. Not all monks go around tripping and disarming, just because they have the abilities.
Darion Fenix
12-23-04, 04:46 AM I've actually got a variant class for just this thing.

The Scholar

Identical to the Bard unless otherwise noted below.

Scholars add Heal and Ride to their class skills.
Scholars have a Poor Reflex save.
Scholars replace Bardic Knowledge with Scholastic Knowledge, the effect is the same.
Scholars do not gain any of the bardic song/performance abilities.
Scholars gain a Bonus Feat at 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th and 20th level.
Scholars may use either Intelligence or Charisma as their spell casting ability, either way they cast spells spontaneously.

Bonus Feats may include any combat feat that does not have another feat as a prerequisite, any meta-magic or item creation feat, or skill focus.

The Scholar's Spell List includes all of the Sorcerer's spells from Abjuration, Divination, Enchantment, Illusion, Transmutation and Universal. They may not learn spells from Conjuration, Evocation, or Necromancy.

The Scholar represents a well rounded, well learned individual from a wealthy family. They've had lessons in swordplay as well as magic. They have learned first aid and are typically good riders. Because of the opportunities they've had and due in part to their infinite curiosity they're very skillful and versatile.
Bluntpencil2001
12-23-04, 08:07 PM Ask the DM if you can use Perform (Jest). Basically inspires with bad jokes either about the enemy or the allies being inspired ("Is your sword that big to overcompensate for something or is it for killing our foes?!").

A lot of really bad 'Your mum/sister/girlfriend' jokes could be appropriate ("Ha! He may be a half-orc, but his mother was a gnome!").

Excuse the examples, I obviously have no ranks in Perform (Jest), but you get the idea.

As a note - in literature, the fool or jester is often very intelligent - This is where bardic knowledge comes in.

.................or you could just play a rogue with a lot of knowledge skills and gather information ranks.
magicmarker13
12-25-04, 10:20 PM the bard i'm using in an upcoming campaign has perform oratory, but that's just for mechanics, his "idiom" or how he works in the campaign world is slightly different. it's just a skill representing his mastery in another form of magic. just think a form of magic that really just has a verbal component.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Favored Enemy 12-22-04, 11:38 PM	I'm trying to work on an NPC Bard for my campaign. I'd like him to fit the theme of the Bard, being a jack-of-all-trades and knowing a little bit about everything. A seasoned traveler very familiar with the world. However, I don't want to include the whole music/singing/performing thing. What is the best way to minimize this aspect of the Bard? It seems very difficult since its practically the Bard's whole special nature. Also, no multiclassing.
Lotus Crane 12-22-04, 11:43 PM	You realize that (Oratory) is one of the Perform subtypes, right? So you don't have to sing or play an instrument or do any other kind of actual "performance" it can be as simple as a rousing battlecry, a stirring speech, a relevant anecdote, or an entertaining story, any of which can reflect his years of experience without actually making him seem too spoony.
shadow mage 12-22-04, 11:58 PM	I'm trying to work on an NPC Bard for my campaign. I'd like him to fit the theme of the Bard, being a jack-of-all-trades and knowing a little bit about everything. A seasoned traveler very familiar with the world. However, I don't want to include the whole music/singing/performing thing. You want a bard that's not a bard? :confused: Here's a couple easily accessible definitions. 1. One of an ancient Celtic order of minstrel poets who composed and recited verses celebrating the legendary exploits of chieftains and heroes. 2. A poet, especially a lyric poet. The music thing I can understand. Not all story-tellers are proficient with music. The performing thing I oculd never understand, because that is what a bard does. They perform, put on shows, act, all of that. Bards are by definition storytellers. That said, take Lotus Crane's advice and just put plenty of skill points into Perform (oratory). How you can tell a story that'll produce the effects of bardic "music" is another story, but I like to entertain the thought of inspire heroics being merely a badly told story that is so greatly irritating friendly PCs do everything to get away from it, even take on enormous odds with renewed vigor. ;)
bard_4_life 12-23-04, 01:11 AM	You could always just make him a mime :). But seriously, a bard without music is just not a bard. Some possible alternatives for a bard that pop into my head are drumming, whistling, humming, chanting, tap dancing, spoon-slapping, bee-boping (I'm running low here, bear with me), clapping, body noise making, grass whistling, and doing that weird thing where you run your finger over glasses with liquid in them to make different pitches. But then again, all of these can be technically considered music.
Nani? 12-23-04, 01:56 AM	Why not try either an expert or a rogue. Perhaps consider the appropiate racial paradign classes from UA. All the Best, Nani?
Razoreface 12-23-04, 03:01 AM	Maybe he wants the magic too. Bard without being annoyingly lyrical? Don't take ranks in Perform, don't use the bardic music abilities. It's not really crippling, but you might have players whining about the character not inspiring them, but you can ignore that. :) People I play with tend to be whiney because my clerics don't buff, and most of their spells are gone when they want the healing train to come around, and my bards have better things to do than inspire.
Psyker Nel'Restynn 12-23-04, 03:17 AM	hmm I knwo what you're talking about. A Bard who isnt a damn minstrel Lets see, keep skill points the same, keep bardic knowledge (change the name to Wanderer's Intuition or something), give him d10 HD, take away spell casting, extra feats say every three or four levels. Now you got your Jack-of-All-Trades, who can kick ass. ;)
Razoreface 12-23-04, 03:30 AM	No reason to change the class.. you just don't use something that's there. Not all monks go around tripping and disarming, just because they have the abilities.
Darion Fenix 12-23-04, 04:46 AM	I've actually got a variant class for just this thing. The Scholar Identical to the Bard unless otherwise noted below. Scholars add Heal and Ride to their class skills. Scholars have a Poor Reflex save. Scholars replace Bardic Knowledge with Scholastic Knowledge, the effect is the same. Scholars do not gain any of the bardic song/performance abilities. Scholars gain a Bonus Feat at 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th and 20th level. Scholars may use either Intelligence or Charisma as their spell casting ability, either way they cast spells spontaneously. Bonus Feats may include any combat feat that does not have another feat as a prerequisite, any meta-magic or item creation feat, or skill focus. The Scholar's Spell List includes all of the Sorcerer's spells from Abjuration, Divination, Enchantment, Illusion, Transmutation and Universal. They may not learn spells from Conjuration, Evocation, or Necromancy. The Scholar represents a well rounded, well learned individual from a wealthy family. They've had lessons in swordplay as well as magic. They have learned first aid and are typically good riders. Because of the opportunities they've had and due in part to their infinite curiosity they're very skillful and versatile.
Bluntpencil2001 12-23-04, 08:07 PM	Ask the DM if you can use Perform (Jest). Basically inspires with bad jokes either about the enemy or the allies being inspired ("Is your sword that big to overcompensate for something or is it for killing our foes?!"). A lot of really bad 'Your mum/sister/girlfriend' jokes could be appropriate ("Ha! He may be a half-orc, but his mother was a gnome!"). Excuse the examples, I obviously have no ranks in Perform (Jest), but you get the idea. As a note - in literature, the fool or jester is often very intelligent - This is where bardic knowledge comes in. .................or you could just play a rogue with a lot of knowledge skills and gather information ranks.
magicmarker13 12-25-04, 10:20 PM	the bard i'm using in an upcoming campaign has perform oratory, but that's just for mechanics, his "idiom" or how he works in the campaign world is slightly different. it's just a skill representing his mastery in another form of magic. just think a form of magic that really just has a verbal component.