Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Perseus_Stoned 03-30-07, 12:29 AM	Hey everybody, I love the "Jack of All Trades" approach the Bard has, but I want something a little less musically oriented. I'm thinking more like a skills-monkey, but one who dabbles in everything (sort of like a non-martial monk for flavor). Does anyone know a class that would suit this?
ZeronHitaro 03-30-07, 12:32 AM	Factotem from Dungeonscape fits the description perfectly.
Perseus_Stoned 03-30-07, 12:34 AM	Dang... I fear I do not possess that book. *raises a hopeful eyebrow* Any chance its open content somewhere (even older versions of dungeonscape)? Alternatively can you outline some of the major abilities of the Factotem to aid in my making a homebrewed class? (for instance the bard "uses musical abilities to influence allies/enemies, gains weak spells, and has a lot of different skill-oriented abilities)
Nifft 03-30-07, 12:36 AM	Factotum from Dungeonscape sounds like it was made for this, but I don't actually have the book, so hopefully someone else will correct me. :) The Chameleon (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041210b&page=1) is excellent, but requires 5 levels of other stuff before you can enter. Recommended "prefix" builds usually include a few Rogue levels, and often a few levels of Ranger, Barbarian, Fighter or Cleric. Very fun is Rogue 1 / Paladin 4 / Chameleon 10... but you may want more skill points than Paladin provides. :) If your DM is open to alternate magic systems, take a look at the Binder (from Tome of Magic) and the Incarnate (from Magic of Incarnum). Both offer excellent daily flexibility. Cheers, -- N
Bladesinger Boy 03-30-07, 12:40 AM	Maybe implement a Bard variant where, for giving up all Bardic Music abilities, you get stuff like Trapfinding, maybe some of those +2/+2 skill feats, a Skill Focus of your choice, ability to "take 10" on a few chosen skills, Monk unarmored speed boosts, probably the Run feat and/or that Bardic Knowledge boosting feat (is it +3?). Note too, running and high speed go well with Jump skill; try jumping more. At high level, when the other party members are looking at you going "bard, wtf? where's our +4 to hit and damage?" you need to pull some crazy stuff off to make them realize you don't suck donkey backside. If you had crazy hide checks and here a Shadowdancer... man... and you could dress in a purple spandex suit and look like Billy Zane (who is a crappy actor).
Perseus_Stoned 03-30-07, 12:42 AM	Maybe implement a Bard variant where, for giving up all Bardic Music abilities, you get stuff like Trapfinding, maybe some of those +2/+2 skill feats, a Skill Focus of your choice, ability to "take 10" on a few chosen skills, Monk unarmored speed boosts, probably the Run feat and/or that Bardic Knowledge boosting feat (is it +3?). Note too, running and high speed go well with Jump skill; try jumping more. At high level, when the other party members are looking at you going "bard, wtf? where's our +4 to hit and damage?" you need to pull some crazy stuff off to make them realize you don't suck donkey backside. If you had crazy hide checks and here a Shadowdancer... man... and you could dress in a purple spandex suit and look like Billy Zane (who is a crappy actor). I agree, those are all good ideas. I might plan on implementing something like this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bard). Although the lack of "no-performance" bards in alternative rule sets was disappointing. Thanks for the warning about higher levels too, thats a really good point (Purple spandex rocks!).
epifreak 03-30-07, 04:32 AM	So a bard minus the music, preferably with a few nice things to compensate. Why not just play a rogue? Human rogue with decent intelligence should give you more than enough skill points to play with.
CaoSlayer 03-30-07, 05:03 AM	I would say play a berguiller. Or a custom bard with 9 level spells like the berguiller.
StalkerEntreri 03-30-07, 06:20 AM	Skill monkey...jack of all trades...ummm...Human rogue
crowclub 03-30-07, 08:25 AM	Looks like you need to invest in Dungeonscape, Factotum is what you're looking for. Beguiler would be my second choice, followed by Human Rogue.
Regularguy 03-30-07, 02:25 PM	Alternatively can you outline some of the major abilities of the Factotem to aid in my making a homebrewed class? For what it's worth, you might want to homebrew a class based on the 2e Bard mechanics: there was one published variant that eschewed all the 'aid another' bonuses and musical stuff in order to take a fair shot at every type of skill check -- and to have extra ranks in a bunch of skills anyway, and to wield any weapon and wear any armor, and to come away from most transactions with a little extra money thanks to a bit of fast-talk. And there was another, also nonmusical and not a team player, who just picked up a flat bonus to pretty much everything -- along with assorted second chances if they failed the first attempt, plus a boost to UMD stuff and an added knack for languages.
Shadowfax7 03-30-07, 06:55 PM	Also, if you want to exchange the bard's bardic Music Ability I would say it's worth 7 feats or feat-like abilities. Bardic Music Ability feats in various books usually grant an add'l Bardic Music Ability. For example, Trapfinding, UD, IUD, plus 4 bonus feats/Rogue special abilities @ 10, 13, 16, 19 levels.