Bard20: How do you handle yourself? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bard20: How do you handle yourself? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
eagleye
10-26-05, 03:38 AM I was wondering how people who actually played a Bard20 handled themselves? Did you stood up to the rest of the party? Were you of actual value between the monstrous powers of the party's cleric and wizard, fighter and rogue? What points did you put most attention on, what were your added values? Your excelent spell selection, the perfect timing of your songs, your unhumanly tumble skin to aid the fighter and rogue?
CaoSlayer
10-26-05, 04:41 AM I havent actually played that far with a bard...

Still, in those levels, a bard isnt as weak as a fighter or a rogue. A bard it is a primary spellcaster, they have insanely powerful spells, Otto´s dance it is without a doubt the best spell on the bard spelllist, so powerful that your master will start using mindless creatures after two uses of the spell.

You can aford easilly by those levels a lot of rods of metamagic, a maximized otto dance means that the BBEG will do nothing for 4 rounds. You can also afford lots of magical items like staffs so you can throw horrid wiltings as a sorcerer of your level or you can fool a paladin´s holy advenger and use it.

Also outside the epic battleground, you can fool a god, with a ridiculous bluff modifier thanks to 23 ranks, +30 glibness and about a +10 to charisma checks, you can lead a whole army.

My advice of playing as an epic level bard it is this:
Get a bunch of bags of holding and store inside all the magical items you can afford/find, you can use the most ever rolling a 1 at a UMD check.

inspire courage +4 it is still useful, means a +20% to hit regardless the enemy´s AC (and when means less chances it is because the guy can hit him without fail).

Get the most expensible armor and shield you can afford, a bard with a mithril set of breastplate +5 and mithril shield +5 it is hard to hit, by those levels alterself and some other spells lasts for 200 minutes, that it is 3 hours, with a very-very cheap rod of lesser extended spell you can keep yourself with an extra +6 AC for almost seven hours.

Your Greater dispell works as good as a wizard´s one and you can use without preparation, it is very wise when playing against an epic wizard to ready counter spells while the party´s wizards and fighters tears apart the BBEG who couldnt cast maximized meteor swarm.

Using flank for granting the ally´s rogue sneak attack and a +2 to hit it is useless when you can grant him improved invisibility (enemy loses his dex. the rogue gets a +2 to hit, gets 50% hit protection). Same with fighter.

Countersong becomes wonderful in the same moment than the BBEG minions can cast dominate person easily, I would fear more the party´s barbarian than elmister.
CzarGarrett
10-26-05, 08:52 AM When I play Bards, I tend to be a super skill monkey who doesn't get into combat that often.

The greatest example of this was when I was a roleplayer in a group of mostly rollplayers. There were times when the party probably would have wiped, had I not used a lot of my skills and got information about troop numbers, placements, types, etc.

Being able to slow down minions is a great tool to have. Sure, the Cleric or Mage might be able to cast insane spells, but its a lot easier for them if they don't have half a dozen guards trying to stab them.
SelcSilverhand
10-26-05, 01:25 PM Farthest I made it was starting a bard at level 3 and going up to Bard 14 / Seeker of the Song PrC 4.

As far as damage dealing, I didn't measure up nearly as well as the monk or fighters in my group. When your monks are dealing out 70 damage a round (At 12th) its hard to keep up. There were definately a few times when I made a huge difference. I used a whip to trip a rider off his horse while chasing him down on my own mount. I used a wand of fireballs like an AA gun to take out an escaping, flying creature when none of us had the fly ability. I charmed a monster and convinced it to hunt down a lot of low level monsters occupying a village. Last time I played I counterspelled a Time Stop.

I'm usually all over the battlefield not worrying about being hit with Tumble so I can get to players and cast a cure. I use Greater Dispel Magic quite a bit, rarely Countersong, for counterspelling. I've also got a ring of spell battle from C. Arc. that helps me screw up the spell casters. I use the ability from the PrC that lets me start and maintain 2 songs at once so I can get off Inspire Courage and Greatness at the same time.
I hardly ever did damage to NPC's in melee. I had wands of fireball, or was casting Song of Discord, or was doing the support role. I don't think I've drawn a weapon since around level 8.

It was a real tough decision to go for the PrC and not straight bard. 6th level bard spells are great. Hero's Feast and Veil were going to be my spell choices.

For spells, Mirage Arcana, Song of Discord, Greater Dispel Magic, Phantom Steed, Greater Invis, Rainbow Pattern, Tongues, Charm Monster, and various Cures are all on my known list.

Even though I wasn't casting big nukes or dishing out hundreds of points of melee damage, I had a good time playing him and had plenty of moments in the spotlight.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
eagleye 10-26-05, 03:38 AM	I was wondering how people who actually played a Bard20 handled themselves? Did you stood up to the rest of the party? Were you of actual value between the monstrous powers of the party's cleric and wizard, fighter and rogue? What points did you put most attention on, what were your added values? Your excelent spell selection, the perfect timing of your songs, your unhumanly tumble skin to aid the fighter and rogue?
CaoSlayer 10-26-05, 04:41 AM	I havent actually played that far with a bard... Still, in those levels, a bard isnt as weak as a fighter or a rogue. A bard it is a primary spellcaster, they have insanely powerful spells, Otto´s dance it is without a doubt the best spell on the bard spelllist, so powerful that your master will start using mindless creatures after two uses of the spell. You can aford easilly by those levels a lot of rods of metamagic, a maximized otto dance means that the BBEG will do nothing for 4 rounds. You can also afford lots of magical items like staffs so you can throw horrid wiltings as a sorcerer of your level or you can fool a paladin´s holy advenger and use it. Also outside the epic battleground, you can fool a god, with a ridiculous bluff modifier thanks to 23 ranks, +30 glibness and about a +10 to charisma checks, you can lead a whole army. My advice of playing as an epic level bard it is this: Get a bunch of bags of holding and store inside all the magical items you can afford/find, you can use the most ever rolling a 1 at a UMD check. inspire courage +4 it is still useful, means a +20% to hit regardless the enemy´s AC (and when means less chances it is because the guy can hit him without fail). Get the most expensible armor and shield you can afford, a bard with a mithril set of breastplate +5 and mithril shield +5 it is hard to hit, by those levels alterself and some other spells lasts for 200 minutes, that it is 3 hours, with a very-very cheap rod of lesser extended spell you can keep yourself with an extra +6 AC for almost seven hours. Your Greater dispell works as good as a wizard´s one and you can use without preparation, it is very wise when playing against an epic wizard to ready counter spells while the party´s wizards and fighters tears apart the BBEG who couldnt cast maximized meteor swarm. Using flank for granting the ally´s rogue sneak attack and a +2 to hit it is useless when you can grant him improved invisibility (enemy loses his dex. the rogue gets a +2 to hit, gets 50% hit protection). Same with fighter. Countersong becomes wonderful in the same moment than the BBEG minions can cast dominate person easily, I would fear more the party´s barbarian than elmister.
CzarGarrett 10-26-05, 08:52 AM	When I play Bards, I tend to be a super skill monkey who doesn't get into combat that often. The greatest example of this was when I was a roleplayer in a group of mostly rollplayers. There were times when the party probably would have wiped, had I not used a lot of my skills and got information about troop numbers, placements, types, etc. Being able to slow down minions is a great tool to have. Sure, the Cleric or Mage might be able to cast insane spells, but its a lot easier for them if they don't have half a dozen guards trying to stab them.
SelcSilverhand 10-26-05, 01:25 PM	Farthest I made it was starting a bard at level 3 and going up to Bard 14 / Seeker of the Song PrC 4. As far as damage dealing, I didn't measure up nearly as well as the monk or fighters in my group. When your monks are dealing out 70 damage a round (At 12th) its hard to keep up. There were definately a few times when I made a huge difference. I used a whip to trip a rider off his horse while chasing him down on my own mount. I used a wand of fireballs like an AA gun to take out an escaping, flying creature when none of us had the fly ability. I charmed a monster and convinced it to hunt down a lot of low level monsters occupying a village. Last time I played I counterspelled a Time Stop. I'm usually all over the battlefield not worrying about being hit with Tumble so I can get to players and cast a cure. I use Greater Dispel Magic quite a bit, rarely Countersong, for counterspelling. I've also got a ring of spell battle from C. Arc. that helps me screw up the spell casters. I use the ability from the PrC that lets me start and maintain 2 songs at once so I can get off Inspire Courage and Greatness at the same time. I hardly ever did damage to NPC's in melee. I had wands of fireball, or was casting Song of Discord, or was doing the support role. I don't think I've drawn a weapon since around level 8. It was a real tough decision to go for the PrC and not straight bard. 6th level bard spells are great. Hero's Feast and Veil were going to be my spell choices. For spells, Mirage Arcana, Song of Discord, Greater Dispel Magic, Phantom Steed, Greater Invis, Rainbow Pattern, Tongues, Charm Monster, and various Cures are all on my known list. Even though I wasn't casting big nukes or dishing out hundreds of points of melee damage, I had a good time playing him and had plenty of moments in the spotlight.