Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tacomannerism 02-22-06, 11:48 AM	I've never really played a bard before. They strike me as being decent at everything. I'm thinking about playing a Bard/Ranger and was wondering if you have any advice on playing one/building one. Thanks!
Saxis 02-22-06, 12:19 PM	There's really only a few things you need to know to make an awesome Bard. Snowflake Wardance (I think that's right), Words of Creation + Inspirational Boost. Lingering Song and some other feats are very useful in Complete Adventurer. That will be your Bards bible, most likely. There's also a Bard's Handbook on the forums. Find it here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=140225&%5D).
Eyeless Blond 02-22-06, 12:34 PM	I like Disguise Spell for bards as well. Your spells can never be identified, ever (noone ever shouting out "Don't worry; it's just an illusion spell!"), and if you succeed at a Perform check noone can even tell it's you casting the spell in the first place!
DwarfPcfan 02-22-06, 12:55 PM	Two words my man, sublime chord, nets you 9th level spells :D :D !!! Now that I've delt with an easy answer ( a little munchkin too). Here's a few suggestions. choose feats to amplify your music and affect different targets ( requiem, greensinger, etc). a good bard has versitality on hand. Get a wide range of skills. since bards are commonly the "face" so to speak, put plenty of ranks in diplomacy, bluff, etc. Since bards are great at buffing too, might be a good idea to choose your spells in consequence en get scrolls. Basically be versatile, be there for the rest of the party and play smart. Here are in my mind the best prestige classes for bards: 1-Sublime Chord ( top best ever in my mind, flavor wise and stats wise) 2- Virtuoso ( you essentially become Mozart) 3- Seeker of the Song ( nice, just nice) 4- War chanter ( Mass buffer with bardic music) And by the way I answered for an effective bard stats wise. I'm not a munchkin, the best bard is always the bard you have fun playing... :D Cheers !!! " My name is the Count of Monte Cristo, but my friends call me Edmon Dantes"
danielinthewolvesden 02-22-06, 12:58 PM	It's really the size of the party, not the build of the Bard. In a very small party, a Bard can take the place of the arcanist & the healer, and also the Face roles. In a Large party, the bard song boosts really help a LOT. Armed with a bow or reach weapon they can back up the Warrior-types.
Tacomannerism 02-22-06, 01:26 PM	Thanks for the reply all... greatly appreciated.
Blank_the_Bard 02-22-06, 01:39 PM	If you want to add more spell power, my favorite way to go is an Extra Music or two and Lyric Spell (both from Complete Adventurer). This lets you sacrifice 1+spell level bardic music uses to cast any spell you know. It's great if you only have a couple of encounters per day and are wondering what else you can do with all of your music uses. Also, don't forget to pick up the spell Inspirational Boost (either in Complete Adventurer or Complete Arcane). It's a first level swift spell that boosts all of the bonuses given by your next Inspire Courage ability by 1. Your party will love you when they get +2 to attack and damage starting at 2nd level. Combined with Lyric Spell, three bardic music uses per day will bump your inspire up a level without using any of your sparse spells.
CaoSlayer 02-22-06, 01:58 PM	The most easy way to play a efective bard without much troubles it is to focus. A bard can most the time do one of three things in a fight: use a weapon, cast a spell or sing a song. The key it is to get feats and one prc. to bost one of the themes and leave other. by example if you focus on songs or spells, you can perfectly forget the bab and weapons for your bard, keep away of any melee feat and get useful things like improved iniciative, spell focus (enchantment) and such, never mix because you lacks enough feats and stats to be a true generalist. Then learn what spells to get, check my guide in the sing for a description of every core bard spell, if you plans to melee a lot of, dont max your charisma and take only spells without save (or fixed like grease) and buffers, haste it is a godlike spell for any suport/melee bard. And ever without any feat a bard can use the other features to suport this main way to act, songs and spells bosts your fighting in a way that you can outdamage a barbarian, and a singer/spellcaster bard have an easier time surviving thanks to d6 hp and armor; mithril chain mail + mithril shield it is the oficial bardīs wear. If you are using splatbooks, you can considere a level dip into a medium prof. armor class and using the battlecaster for mithril full metal armor without a single ASF. Dont take levels on other classes unless you know what are you doing, you have aready a slow access spell-list, a every level dip hurts this. The four best simple multiclass options for a bard are cleric for access to wands, turn undead feats, two domains and level 1 spells), fighter for armor/weapon prof and feat, wizard for familiar, inscribe spell and being able to learn every level 1 spell so you can use item creation feats much better and finally but not least, rogue ideal for trap disable.
danielinthewolvesden 02-22-06, 03:30 PM	Also, don't forget to pick up the spell Inspirational Boost (either in Complete Adventurer or Complete Arcane). It's a first level swift spell that boosts all of the bonuses given by your next Inspire Courage ability by 1. Your party will love you when they get +2 to attack and damage starting at 2nd level Blank is right- That is truely a "must do" spell. :cool:
tiluvias99 02-22-06, 04:04 PM	Pump up your perform skill, then fascinate an opponent. They'll pretty much always fail their save, because of the ridiculous DCs that you can get. Then just use suggestion until they fail a save. You win.
Kullak-Kobold Sorcerer 02-23-06, 07:08 PM	When designing any character, the essential question is why do you want that build? You mention a Bard/Ranger. As such, you probably have an idea of what you want. The Bard/Ranger has four advantages. 1) Martial Weapon Proficiency. One level of Ranger nets you the ability to use a Composite Longbow or a two handed sword. Not to take advantage of this choice is really a waste of taking any levels in Ranger. 2) Balances your Fortitude save at the cost of Will save. Balancing the weakness of a low Fort save will make you more likely to survive. 3) Also has 6 skill points per level. With many crossovers (such as Hide and MS) and some strong skills (such as Spot and Survival), a few levels of Ranger (appox 3) can allow you more options making you a better 'generalist'. 4) Favored Enemy bonuses. The Favored Enemy bonuses to skills are on the Bard and Ranger class skill list. The major disadvantage is you will be losing Spells and Songs, or at least have an additional level before you gain access to them. If you go with this design, you do have to ask yourself what your design plan is. Is it to make a more worldly traveler? Then focus on those skills, take a high Int and play a human. If allowed, take the feat Able Learner. Cross class skills cost 1 skill point to gain 1 rank instead of 1 skill point gains you .5 rank. If you are focused on being more martially inclined, keep in mind that your base attack won't go up unless you take a few levels in ranger. If your focus will be Ranged, it may be better just to stay a pure Bard or pure Ranger as the spells/songs from Bard or the combat focus from Ranger are essential to each build. If melee, the two weapon fighting style is a waste with the significantly lower base attack. Alternatively, a two handed weapon loses your shield bonus which is almost essential to have with the d6 HP. Also, Arcane Strike (which gives you bonuses to hit and damage by expending Arcane spell slots) requires as many uses of Arcane spell slots as possible. The pure Bard would have a greater martial advantage versus the Ranger/Bard multiclass. Hope this answers yuor question.
Jaxgaret 02-23-06, 08:58 PM	Kullak makes some good points there. Don't know if this will help you any, but there just happens to be an excellent Bard/Ranger PrC. It's called the Harper Paragon, and can be found in the Player's Guide to Faerun. Perhaps it can be modified somewhat by you and your DM if need be, particularly the requirements.
moomooacow 02-23-06, 11:12 PM	I love adding Psion levels to my Bards, they tend to add a lot of versatility to them. The one problem is the resists, especially at higher levels, but the two class stack out quite well and it really isn't that big of an issue. Take Bard, then PrC Virtuoso ASAP and take it as far up as you want, I don't get too deep into it, then drop it and start taking Psion levels. Also, your 2 most important stats will become Charisma and Intelligence. Charisma will help you with negotiations, casting, and some saves, and Intelligence will let you use your Psionic abilities and will give you a big boost to your skill points. Two other things you should worry about in this type of build: 1. HP/Con & Fort saves 2. Low Initiative These two might not seem that bad, but as you progress the low Con and Fort can really hurt you, and in these mixed spell builds there is no room for extra feats. In nearly every battle, because you will be lacking in dexterity and have most items geared toward Int and Cha, you will almost always be last, meaning that in sneak attacks and getting flat footed you will be extremely weak and vulnerable, and you won't be able to get off most of your Performs to increase your parties skills. The one huge advantage of the Rogue/Bard build is it's sheer versatility and skill points, but I personally think you might as well replace Bard with Sorcerer and PrC up. Basically, you become like a Wizard in this build. I would aim at getting around 13 levels (to get level 7 kinetic powers) as a Nomad (just...I love it), Kineticist (if you want more damage), or Telepath (if you really wanna add some more fire power to your diplomacy) Psion.
Red Fire 02-23-06, 11:47 PM	This is all good stuff. i wanna make a Bard character too (despite claims by others that they suck hard) but I can't quite choose what race. I considered Human, or Halfling, but then someone suggested Half-Elf. What do I do?! What weapon should I give him? I thought long sword, but is there something better? Also can someone please explain to me what spells they can learn at 1st level seeing as I don not own the Player's book yet.
CaoSlayer 02-24-06, 05:18 AM	umm, race it is more a roleplay reason, really, a bard can perform good with any race, althrough each race have a favoured build: half-elf it is without doubt the least special class in the book, this only advantage it is having half the bonuses of an elf without the penalty to con and being free to multiclass. Buuut, there is an exception to this if you own races of the wild, in that book there is a level subtitution that makes half-elf bard the stronger bards, they get the skill to use calm emotions as a bard song a very strong power (think of being able to cast a level 3 spell once per level from the start). a human it is perfect for any kind of bard, they are a win-win race, the extra skill point it is great since you are focused in skills and can allow you to use a low stat roll on int while being still skillful or with high int, to outskill a rogue. The extra feat it is just perfect, there are hundreds and hundreds of useful feats out there and you gain feats too low, the extra feat can help you to enter a prestige class without much pain (it is very hurtful have to spend your only feat on a skill focus at first level) or can help you to focus, being able to start with song of the heart AND competence with an exotic weapon or spell focus and greater focus (enchantment) or combat expertise and improved trip it is very powerful, bards starts a very weak class as they only can cast cantrips and only can use a song, so this bonus it is a good thing. Finally about halflings... I personally prefer gnome bards, they are harder to kill and the free focus with illusions it is a nice thing... If you are a halfling, forget about attack on melee, get a proyectile weapon and you will find yourself with an extra +3 to hit vs a human (you get a +1 bonus due size, a +1 racial bonus with throw weapons and +1 cause your dex bonus) the downside it is that throw weapons arent very damaging and size you are small they will be ever less damaging, of course, if you get three returning daggers of wounding with your hit bonuses you will hit easily and cause havoc on the enemy. A halfling bard role so it is to focus on songs and/or spells and having a bunch of throw weapons for a extra punch. At first level you dont get a single level 1 spell, only cantrips, the most useful cantrips are prestidigitation, read magic, detect magic and mensage, the rest it is your choise. EDIT: About your weapon of choise, you have to look that offers beyond plain damage, a long sword it is a good starting weapon, but you should considere a rapier if you ends with a high dex. since you can finesse it. About ranged weapons, at start a crossbow it is the perfect weapon for you[and you arent a halfling], if you plans to focus on ranged weapons, you could considere to spend a feat on a repeating crossbow or another exotic ranged weapon, martial ranged weapon arent worth a feat. A really great option if you have a couple of melee pals is to use a long spear, allowing you to attack from distancie without exposing yourself, a more expensible but worth weapon it is the spiked chain. Finally you have to considere the whip, ever if you dont spend a single feat, this weapon becomes de perfect disarm/trip tool, you will be able to trip/disarm people at 15' for disarming you can get a +6 bonus over the oponent thanks to the +2 that grants the weapon and another +4 if you use both hands in the whip (you can use an one handed weapon two handed) think in wraping the weapon with the whip and then pulling it strong with the both hands), if you focus on whip then improved trip/disarm grants you another +4 and with levels you can buy better enhanced weapon (the +1 to hit and damage also aplies to disarm) for being a disarming monster.