Bard/Barbarian raging and singing? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bard/Barbarian raging and singing? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
gonzoron
04-02-04, 02:03 PM Did a bit of a search and found a few opinions, but not a conclusive proof. Does anyone know if a Bard/Barbarian can sing and rage at the same time? Does the order in which he started the song and rage matter? Does the answer change in 3.0 vs 3.5?

Thanks. (Working on my Dwarven Barbarian/Bard/Dirgist)
Sucineri
04-02-04, 02:27 PM One term comes to mind here..

DEATH METAL! (which sucks butt)

Makes sense to me :)
coolhand37
04-02-04, 03:23 PM I hear it now..."I'm the Beastie Bard, and I'm raging and singing!"

I don't think there's any rule that says you can't, and since barbarian and bard have the same alignment restriction, I say go for it. I'm not sure how much courage that could really inspire, considering how noisy and guttural it would be. :)

Death Metal was a good way of summing it up, it would be about that melodic.
Sagefire
04-02-04, 07:41 PM You could always think of it in Diablo 2 terms where barbarians have shouts and war cries to boost the morale of your party or scare the enemy.
Sucineri
04-02-04, 07:51 PM Yeah, but a bard wouldn't really inspire anyone with a "Wuh!" or "Raa!" like the barbarian in D2 does..that's just silly.
Count Arioch the 28th
04-02-04, 07:59 PM I don't recall where a D20 barbarian had to go Wuh or Raa anywhere, mind wuoting a source?

I don't see why not, in fact, the 2E Battlerager kit for dwarf warriors suggested that you can rage and sing at the same time, it was very much like 3E barbarian, and it described them as singing war chants while having a rage like effect.

I could see a raging barbarian inspiring courage in his allies with a rousing war chant. Same with inspire greatness and inspire heroics, since those are battle songs.

Plus, RAW does nothing to disallow it, since I could see both flavor wise, and rule wise, it would take a damn good reason to make me disallow it in any case.

Although I admit that inspring competence, fascinate, and suggestion might be a stretch for a ragin barbarian. And song of freedom specifically requires concentration, which is beyond the faculties of a raging barbarian. Jury's still out on whether countersong makes sense for a raging barbarian, but I don't see any reason to disallow it.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek
04-02-04, 08:06 PM I thought that a Bard had to have a Musical Instrument? Also, don't you have to concentrate in order to use a Bard's singing abilities? When a Barbarian rages you can't do anything like that. A Bard doesn't just sing and it happens, he or she has to concentrate when using it's singing abilities.
Sucineri
04-02-04, 08:13 PM I don't recall where a D20 barbarian had to go Wuh or Raa anywhere, mind wuoting a source?

That is your quote..and MY quote is..

Yeah, but a bard wouldn't really inspire anyone with a "Wuh!" or "Raa!" like the barbarian in D2 does..that's just silly.

D2..not D20..Diablo 2..I say Diablo 2 from THIS quote..

You could always think of it in Diablo 2 terms where barbarians have shouts and war cries to boost the morale of your party or scare the enemy.

Which was said just before what I said.

So like I said before..a barbarian's sound effect when using a shout or warcry from Diablo 2 (game on the personal computer that is by blizzard entertainment so that you don't get more confused) is the equiv of "Wuh!" and "Raa!".

Case Dismissed.
Count Arioch the 28th
04-02-04, 08:21 PM Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek
I thought that a Bard had to have a Musical Instrument? Also, don't you have to concentrate in order to use a Bard's singing abilities? When a Barbarian rages you can't do anything like that. A Bard doesn't just sing and it happens, he or she has to concentrate when using it's singing abilities.

According to the SRD:

" While these abilities fall under the category of bardic music and the descriptions discuss singing or playing instruments, they can all be activated by reciting poetry, chanting, singing lyrical songs, singing melodies, whistling, playing an instrument, or playing an instrument in combination with some spoken performance. "

A bard doesn;'t need a musical instrument at all.

"Some bardic music abilities require concentration, which means the bard must take a standard action each round to maintain the ability."

Note the word "Some". Which means, not all bardic music abilities require concentration, only some of them do.

According to the SRD, the only abilities that require concentration are Inspire competence and Song of Freedom, although the fact that the fascinate, suggestion, and mas suggestion cannot be used in battle, which means that a raging bard/barbarian probably wouldn't be using it while raging anyway.

Which means that inspire courage, countersong, inspire greatness, and inspire heroics CAN be used while ragining, according to RAW.

Sucineri: Well, excuse me. I assumed you dropped the 0 at the end by accident. Next time, when you mean Diablo, just type it out. And don't yell at me for not reading your mind. :rolleyes:
Sucineri
04-02-04, 08:33 PM Sucineri: Well, excuse me. I assumed you dropped the 0 at the end by accident. Next time, when you mean Diablo, just type it out. And don't yell at me for not reading your mind.

For not reading your mind? That isn't why..it's for not reading all the posts..especially the one that came RIGHT BEFORE mine..a lot of times here if you are confused about something all you have to do is read the post right above it and you will be "oh, well that makes sense now"..anyway, I forgot the point of this thread since I had my "Flame-On!" hat on.
Count Arioch the 28th
04-02-04, 08:42 PM Dude, back off me. I didn't deserve being yelled at before, and I don't deserve it now.
Caktid
04-02-04, 09:16 PM Well, personally, i wouldnt allow it. How can you sing to inspire your friends while your raging in anger at your enemy? I think your focus should be on one or the other. If your gonna be really ticked off at your enemy, do that. If you wanna boost your teammates, do that. The point is, you cant logically do both. That kinda requires a calmness while fighting that Rage seems to counteract.

A side note:
Sucineri and Count Arioch, both of you calm down and get back on topic. If you cant do that, finish your fight elsewhere.

(Edit: Did you know that the boards edit out the word "P I S S E D"? As in " P I S S E D off?"
CrimsonRyoko
04-02-04, 09:16 PM Just because barbarians are illiterate doesnt mean that cant speak well.

Think of it like Native Americans, they had millions of songs, but didnt have a written "alphabet" per say.

Hell, a Barbarian knows common even, so he could have a lovely singing voice.

Think outside the box.

And the Unearthed Arcana variant of a Savage Bard would prolly work wonders for what your trying. Thou it would confine them more to the raw or graw aspect since they stay illiterate.
Count Arioch the 28th
04-02-04, 09:18 PM Caktid, the rules disagree with you. According to rules as written, you can inspire courage, greatness, and heroics while raging. I don't see how a barbarian couldn't chant war songs while raging. According to the RAW, id takes no concentration to do the things I mentioned last sentence. Anything not forbidden is allowed.

Quote me a rule, and I'll beleive you.
Sucineri
04-02-04, 09:38 PM Well..one band can still "Rage" against the machine and make music..so why not?
Spongly
04-16-04, 07:10 AM I like the idea of barbarian bards working themselves into a battle frenzy with a rousing war chant, and wouldn't see any problem with it.
PSM
04-16-04, 11:29 AM In 3.5 I would say no because I quote from WOTC

"While raging, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except for Balance, Escape Artist, Intimidate, and Ride), the Concentration skill, or any abilities that require patience or concentration, nor can he cast spells or activate magic items that require a command word, a spell trigger (such as a wand), or spell completion (such as a scroll) to function. "

As for 3.0 I have no idea but I wouldn't allow it just for balancing reasons.
Scandal
04-16-04, 01:00 PM Originally posted by Caktid
Well, personally, i wouldnt allow it. How can you sing to inspire your friends while your raging in anger at your enemy? I think your focus should be on one or the other. If your gonna be really ticked off at your enemy, do that. If you wanna boost your teammates, do that. The point is, you cant logically do both. That kinda requires a calmness while fighting that Rage seems to counteract.

A side note:
Sucineri and Count Arioch, both of you calm down and get back on topic. If you cant do that, finish your fight elsewhere.

(Edit: Did you know that the boards edit out the word "P I S S E D"? As in " P I S S E D off?"

If you think about it most barbarians in D&D novels go into battle singing to their Gods or chanting or a number of other preform skills.. Mainly the calling out to their god and sing to them..

So singing and raging or chanting and raging would work just fine I do believe..

-Scan

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
gonzoron 04-02-04, 02:03 PM	Did a bit of a search and found a few opinions, but not a conclusive proof. Does anyone know if a Bard/Barbarian can sing and rage at the same time? Does the order in which he started the song and rage matter? Does the answer change in 3.0 vs 3.5? Thanks. (Working on my Dwarven Barbarian/Bard/Dirgist)
Sucineri 04-02-04, 02:27 PM	One term comes to mind here.. DEATH METAL! (which sucks butt) Makes sense to me :)
coolhand37 04-02-04, 03:23 PM	I hear it now..."I'm the Beastie Bard, and I'm raging and singing!" I don't think there's any rule that says you can't, and since barbarian and bard have the same alignment restriction, I say go for it. I'm not sure how much courage that could really inspire, considering how noisy and guttural it would be. :) Death Metal was a good way of summing it up, it would be about that melodic.
Sagefire 04-02-04, 07:41 PM	You could always think of it in Diablo 2 terms where barbarians have shouts and war cries to boost the morale of your party or scare the enemy.
Sucineri 04-02-04, 07:51 PM	Yeah, but a bard wouldn't really inspire anyone with a "Wuh!" or "Raa!" like the barbarian in D2 does..that's just silly.
Count Arioch the 28th 04-02-04, 07:59 PM	I don't recall where a D20 barbarian had to go Wuh or Raa anywhere, mind wuoting a source? I don't see why not, in fact, the 2E Battlerager kit for dwarf warriors suggested that you can rage and sing at the same time, it was very much like 3E barbarian, and it described them as singing war chants while having a rage like effect. I could see a raging barbarian inspiring courage in his allies with a rousing war chant. Same with inspire greatness and inspire heroics, since those are battle songs. Plus, RAW does nothing to disallow it, since I could see both flavor wise, and rule wise, it would take a damn good reason to make me disallow it in any case. Although I admit that inspring competence, fascinate, and suggestion might be a stretch for a ragin barbarian. And song of freedom specifically requires concentration, which is beyond the faculties of a raging barbarian. Jury's still out on whether countersong makes sense for a raging barbarian, but I don't see any reason to disallow it.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 04-02-04, 08:06 PM	I thought that a Bard had to have a Musical Instrument? Also, don't you have to concentrate in order to use a Bard's singing abilities? When a Barbarian rages you can't do anything like that. A Bard doesn't just sing and it happens, he or she has to concentrate when using it's singing abilities.
Sucineri 04-02-04, 08:13 PM	I don't recall where a D20 barbarian had to go Wuh or Raa anywhere, mind wuoting a source? That is your quote..and MY quote is.. Yeah, but a bard wouldn't really inspire anyone with a "Wuh!" or "Raa!" like the barbarian in D2 does..that's just silly. D2..not D20..Diablo 2..I say Diablo 2 from THIS quote.. You could always think of it in Diablo 2 terms where barbarians have shouts and war cries to boost the morale of your party or scare the enemy. Which was said just before what I said. So like I said before..a barbarian's sound effect when using a shout or warcry from Diablo 2 (game on the personal computer that is by blizzard entertainment so that you don't get more confused) is the equiv of "Wuh!" and "Raa!". Case Dismissed.
Count Arioch the 28th 04-02-04, 08:21 PM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek I thought that a Bard had to have a Musical Instrument? Also, don't you have to concentrate in order to use a Bard's singing abilities? When a Barbarian rages you can't do anything like that. A Bard doesn't just sing and it happens, he or she has to concentrate when using it's singing abilities. According to the SRD: " While these abilities fall under the category of bardic music and the descriptions discuss singing or playing instruments, they can all be activated by reciting poetry, chanting, singing lyrical songs, singing melodies, whistling, playing an instrument, or playing an instrument in combination with some spoken performance. " A bard doesn;'t need a musical instrument at all. "Some bardic music abilities require concentration, which means the bard must take a standard action each round to maintain the ability." Note the word "Some". Which means, not all bardic music abilities require concentration, only some of them do. According to the SRD, the only abilities that require concentration are Inspire competence and Song of Freedom, although the fact that the fascinate, suggestion, and mas suggestion cannot be used in battle, which means that a raging bard/barbarian probably wouldn't be using it while raging anyway. Which means that inspire courage, countersong, inspire greatness, and inspire heroics CAN be used while ragining, according to RAW. Sucineri: Well, excuse me. I assumed you dropped the 0 at the end by accident. Next time, when you mean Diablo, just type it out. And don't yell at me for not reading your mind. :rolleyes:
Sucineri 04-02-04, 08:33 PM	Sucineri: Well, excuse me. I assumed you dropped the 0 at the end by accident. Next time, when you mean Diablo, just type it out. And don't yell at me for not reading your mind. For not reading your mind? That isn't why..it's for not reading all the posts..especially the one that came RIGHT BEFORE mine..a lot of times here if you are confused about something all you have to do is read the post right above it and you will be "oh, well that makes sense now"..anyway, I forgot the point of this thread since I had my "Flame-On!" hat on.
Count Arioch the 28th 04-02-04, 08:42 PM	Dude, back off me. I didn't deserve being yelled at before, and I don't deserve it now.
Caktid 04-02-04, 09:16 PM	Well, personally, i wouldnt allow it. How can you sing to inspire your friends while your raging in anger at your enemy? I think your focus should be on one or the other. If your gonna be really ticked off at your enemy, do that. If you wanna boost your teammates, do that. The point is, you cant logically do both. That kinda requires a calmness while fighting that Rage seems to counteract. A side note: Sucineri and Count Arioch, both of you calm down and get back on topic. If you cant do that, finish your fight elsewhere. (Edit: Did you know that the boards edit out the word "P I S S E D"? As in " P I S S E D off?"
CrimsonRyoko 04-02-04, 09:16 PM	Just because barbarians are illiterate doesnt mean that cant speak well. Think of it like Native Americans, they had millions of songs, but didnt have a written "alphabet" per say. Hell, a Barbarian knows common even, so he could have a lovely singing voice. Think outside the box. And the Unearthed Arcana variant of a Savage Bard would prolly work wonders for what your trying. Thou it would confine them more to the raw or graw aspect since they stay illiterate.
Count Arioch the 28th 04-02-04, 09:18 PM	Caktid, the rules disagree with you. According to rules as written, you can inspire courage, greatness, and heroics while raging. I don't see how a barbarian couldn't chant war songs while raging. According to the RAW, id takes no concentration to do the things I mentioned last sentence. Anything not forbidden is allowed. Quote me a rule, and I'll beleive you.
Sucineri 04-02-04, 09:38 PM	Well..one band can still "Rage" against the machine and make music..so why not?
Spongly 04-16-04, 07:10 AM	I like the idea of barbarian bards working themselves into a battle frenzy with a rousing war chant, and wouldn't see any problem with it.
PSM 04-16-04, 11:29 AM	In 3.5 I would say no because I quote from WOTC "While raging, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except for Balance, Escape Artist, Intimidate, and Ride), the Concentration skill, or any abilities that require patience or concentration, nor can he cast spells or activate magic items that require a command word, a spell trigger (such as a wand), or spell completion (such as a scroll) to function. " As for 3.0 I have no idea but I wouldn't allow it just for balancing reasons.
Scandal 04-16-04, 01:00 PM	Originally posted by Caktid Well, personally, i wouldnt allow it. How can you sing to inspire your friends while your raging in anger at your enemy? I think your focus should be on one or the other. If your gonna be really ticked off at your enemy, do that. If you wanna boost your teammates, do that. The point is, you cant logically do both. That kinda requires a calmness while fighting that Rage seems to counteract. A side note: Sucineri and Count Arioch, both of you calm down and get back on topic. If you cant do that, finish your fight elsewhere. (Edit: Did you know that the boards edit out the word "P I S S E D"? As in " P I S S E D off?" If you think about it most barbarians in D&D novels go into battle singing to their Gods or chanting or a number of other preform skills.. Mainly the calling out to their god and sing to them.. So singing and raging or chanting and raging would work just fine I do believe.. -Scan