Bardic Knack [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bardic Knack [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
retillin
03-19-07, 10:16 AM Having just picked up the PHB2 I read over the bard alternative class feature. Now, I love bards they are my fav class. But does anyones else think this feature is too good? In effect it gives the bard 1/2 their level as skills in any skill that is not trained. So a 10th level bard has 5 skills in anything that does not require training. To me it almost feels like 10 free 1/2 skill points. Any options out there?
Forgember
03-19-07, 10:25 AM I don't think its to good, playing a bard right now, level 11 and its never really seemed all that crazy good as of yet. Basicly it makes you have some ability in alot of general things. Also they arent ranks so having the Bardic Knack won't help you get into prestige classes or for prereqs for other feats. Its pretty cool don't get me wrong, this is my first time trying it and I think I like it. Its definatly not unbalancing or out of control though. Gotta tell ya though its wierd being a bard and not having the ubscure knowledge granted by Bardic Knowledge, can be funny though when people come to you to learn sutff. I ususally bluff with Glibness and make up some crazy info anyway. Also remember its only untrained skills that get the Knack.
malisteen
03-19-07, 10:36 AM Most skills are balanced in such a way that you need class skill ranks to do anything particularly useful for your level.

It's nice for spot and listen if you didn't invest points in them, though.
Khan the Destroyer
03-19-07, 10:43 AM I think it's awesome. With the Improvisation spell, you effectively have ranks in any skill (that can be used untrained) equal to your character level. Skill monkeys eat your heart out.
Chimaera2000
03-21-07, 04:04 AM I personally love taking one level of rogue or factotum at 1st level, taking the feats Able Learner (Races of Destiny) and Jack of All Trades (Complete Adventurer), then taking the rest of my levels as bard with the Bardic Knack alternate class feature. It means that you can do anything skill wise, and with the bard's skill-boosting spells (like share talents and master's touch from the PHB II, or the aforementioned improvisation from Spell Compendium), you can pull off some very monstrous skill checks.

Do I think it's good? Oh, yes. You have to spend a feat on Jack of All Trades or put one rank in a lot of trained skills to really get it to shine, though.
Pandaemoni
03-21-07, 08:58 AM Having just picked up the PHB2 I read over the bard alternative class feature. Now, I love bards they are my fav class. But does anyones else think this feature is too good? In effect it gives the bard 1/2 their level as skills in any skill that is not trained. So a 10th level bard has 5 skills in anything that does not require training. To me it almost feels like 10 free 1/2 skill points. Any options out there?

I love bards too and, so far, I haven't really seen a problem with Bardic Knack. It makes bards into the best skill monkey in the game because they'll quickly be able to do a little bit of everything, but they'll never be as good as a PC who really specializes in that skill.

In other words, they finally do become "jack of all trades, master of none," which has always been the niche that people thought they were supposed to fill (and yet, they never did).

Plus, Bardic Knowledge was a poorly defined and implemented skill anyway.

Is Bardic Knack better than Bardic Knowledge? Yep. Sure is. By a lot. Do I fear that hordes of powergaming bard-players will come to unfairly oppress and overshadow all the clerics, druids and wizards through the use of bardic knack? No.

CoDzilla still laughs at bards.
Pazu
03-21-07, 06:38 PM I personally love taking one level of rogue or factotum at 1st level, taking the feats Able Learner (Races of Destiny) and Jack of All Trades (Complete Adventurer), then taking the rest of my levels as bard with the Bardic Knack alternate class feature. It means that you can do anything skill wise, and with the bard's skill-boosting spells (like share talents and master's touch from the PHB II, or the aforementioned improvisation from Spell Compendium), you can pull off some very monstrous skill checks.

Do I think it's good? Oh, yes. You have to spend a feat on Jack of All Trades or put one rank in a lot of trained skills to really get it to shine, though.

Does Jack of All Trades open up trained-only skills to bardic knack? I thought that bardic knack required at least 1 rank in trained-only skills, whereas Jack of All Trades gives the equivalent of a 1/2 rank. Please forgive me if I'm remembering the text incorrectly.

I threw this idea out in another thread, and I haven't had a chance to really tinker with it, but: convince the DM to use the "human subtype" variant rules for half-races, make a half-elf bard with bardic knack and the Able Learner and Elven Dilettante feats, then take Complementary Insight at 6th level to crank your synergy bonuses.
FreAkOuTRG
03-21-07, 07:04 PM Does Jack of All Trades open up trained-only skills to bardic knack? I thought that bardic knack required at least 1 rank in trained-only skills, whereas Jack of All Trades gives the equivalent of a 1/2 rank. Please forgive me if I'm remembering the text incorrectly.

Exactly! I was wondering if anyone else saw that.
Khan the Destroyer
03-21-07, 07:39 PM Yeah, they don't work together. One requires 1 actual rank in the skill. The other gives you 1/2 an effective rank. No dice.
Chimaera2000
03-23-07, 09:41 AM A pity, that. I suppose house rule allowances could be made, though. I'm sure that I'm not the only one who likes the idea of bards being a dabbler in pretty much everything.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
retillin 03-19-07, 10:16 AM	Having just picked up the PHB2 I read over the bard alternative class feature. Now, I love bards they are my fav class. But does anyones else think this feature is too good? In effect it gives the bard 1/2 their level as skills in any skill that is not trained. So a 10th level bard has 5 skills in anything that does not require training. To me it almost feels like 10 free 1/2 skill points. Any options out there?
Forgember 03-19-07, 10:25 AM	I don't think its to good, playing a bard right now, level 11 and its never really seemed all that crazy good as of yet. Basicly it makes you have some ability in alot of general things. Also they arent ranks so having the Bardic Knack won't help you get into prestige classes or for prereqs for other feats. Its pretty cool don't get me wrong, this is my first time trying it and I think I like it. Its definatly not unbalancing or out of control though. Gotta tell ya though its wierd being a bard and not having the ubscure knowledge granted by Bardic Knowledge, can be funny though when people come to you to learn sutff. I ususally bluff with Glibness and make up some crazy info anyway. Also remember its only untrained skills that get the Knack.
malisteen 03-19-07, 10:36 AM	Most skills are balanced in such a way that you need class skill ranks to do anything particularly useful for your level. It's nice for spot and listen if you didn't invest points in them, though.
Khan the Destroyer 03-19-07, 10:43 AM	I think it's awesome. With the Improvisation spell, you effectively have ranks in any skill (that can be used untrained) equal to your character level. Skill monkeys eat your heart out.
Chimaera2000 03-21-07, 04:04 AM	I personally love taking one level of rogue or factotum at 1st level, taking the feats Able Learner (Races of Destiny) and Jack of All Trades (Complete Adventurer), then taking the rest of my levels as bard with the Bardic Knack alternate class feature. It means that you can do anything skill wise, and with the bard's skill-boosting spells (like share talents and master's touch from the PHB II, or the aforementioned improvisation from Spell Compendium), you can pull off some very monstrous skill checks. Do I think it's good? Oh, yes. You have to spend a feat on Jack of All Trades or put one rank in a lot of trained skills to really get it to shine, though.
Pandaemoni 03-21-07, 08:58 AM	Having just picked up the PHB2 I read over the bard alternative class feature. Now, I love bards they are my fav class. But does anyones else think this feature is too good? In effect it gives the bard 1/2 their level as skills in any skill that is not trained. So a 10th level bard has 5 skills in anything that does not require training. To me it almost feels like 10 free 1/2 skill points. Any options out there? I love bards too and, so far, I haven't really seen a problem with Bardic Knack. It makes bards into the best skill monkey in the game because they'll quickly be able to do a little bit of everything, but they'll never be as good as a PC who really specializes in that skill. In other words, they finally do become "jack of all trades, master of none," which has always been the niche that people thought they were supposed to fill (and yet, they never did). Plus, Bardic Knowledge was a poorly defined and implemented skill anyway. Is Bardic Knack better than Bardic Knowledge? Yep. Sure is. By a lot. Do I fear that hordes of powergaming bard-players will come to unfairly oppress and overshadow all the clerics, druids and wizards through the use of bardic knack? No. CoDzilla still laughs at bards.
Pazu 03-21-07, 06:38 PM	I personally love taking one level of rogue or factotum at 1st level, taking the feats Able Learner (Races of Destiny) and Jack of All Trades (Complete Adventurer), then taking the rest of my levels as bard with the Bardic Knack alternate class feature. It means that you can do anything skill wise, and with the bard's skill-boosting spells (like share talents and master's touch from the PHB II, or the aforementioned improvisation from Spell Compendium), you can pull off some very monstrous skill checks. Do I think it's good? Oh, yes. You have to spend a feat on Jack of All Trades or put one rank in a lot of trained skills to really get it to shine, though. Does Jack of All Trades open up trained-only skills to bardic knack? I thought that bardic knack required at least 1 rank in trained-only skills, whereas Jack of All Trades gives the equivalent of a 1/2 rank. Please forgive me if I'm remembering the text incorrectly. I threw this idea out in another thread, and I haven't had a chance to really tinker with it, but: convince the DM to use the "human subtype" variant rules for half-races, make a half-elf bard with bardic knack and the Able Learner and Elven Dilettante feats, then take Complementary Insight at 6th level to crank your synergy bonuses.
FreAkOuTRG 03-21-07, 07:04 PM	Does Jack of All Trades open up trained-only skills to bardic knack? I thought that bardic knack required at least 1 rank in trained-only skills, whereas Jack of All Trades gives the equivalent of a 1/2 rank. Please forgive me if I'm remembering the text incorrectly. Exactly! I was wondering if anyone else saw that.
Khan the Destroyer 03-21-07, 07:39 PM	Yeah, they don't work together. One requires 1 actual rank in the skill. The other gives you 1/2 an effective rank. No dice.
Chimaera2000 03-23-07, 09:41 AM	A pity, that. I suppose house rule allowances could be made, though. I'm sure that I'm not the only one who likes the idea of bards being a dabbler in pretty much everything.