Bards and AL [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bards and AL [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
CommanderFalken
06-22-05, 04:10 PM I was just wondering about the AL req. for a bard. Why aren't they allowed to be Lawful? Not to mention the Druid's Grove Test sometimes says that you are lawful and a bard :confused: Just Wondering.
Salla
06-22-05, 04:38 PM The theory, as I understand it, is that bards are somewhat pigeonholed into the 'wandering minstrel' type, capricious rogues who live on their whims and care nothing for what society expects of them. This is incompatible with the Lawful alignment's respect and adherence to tradition and honor.

I disagree and houseruled it away, myself (along with every other alignment restriction in the PHB except the Paladin, and I use the Unearthed Arcana Prestige variant for that).

(And I'm guessing the Druid's Grove online test doesn't apply class-alignment filters.)
CzarGarrett
06-23-05, 08:51 AM IMO, Lawful implies that you stick with a codex of rules made by society, work within the system, and are often quite ordered in their methods.

Its not really a Bard.

Even if a Bard sticks around an area, his knowledge winds up being scattered- as opposed to an orderly researcher, he's more likely to play different songs each time he plays, stuff like that.

Its not to say that a Bard has to be Chaotic. But they're just not really lawful.
CaoSlayer
06-23-05, 09:14 AM um, I personally liked better the AL restriction of a 2nd edition bard where you had to be neutral in one of the axis at least, just like 3e druids because since bards where used to be diplomats, they couldnt be extremists but neutral in a point of view.
(it is better to send a lawful neutral bard from a lawful good kingdom to an evil one than a LG one)
Jaid
06-23-05, 10:16 AM IMO, Lawful implies that you stick with a codex of rules made by society, work within the system, and are often quite ordered in their methods.

well, you're right on the last part.

the other two *can* be attributes of a lawful character (and many times will be). However, lawful != law-abiding. while lawful characters are more likely to obey laws than a chaotic one, i tend to see this as more of a side effect of laws tending to agree with their point of view more often rather than being a love of laws.

for example, if the laws of the land are simple, basic, and not very restricting, a chaotic character could very well live within those laws just as easily, if not easier than, a Lawful one. for example, if you are in a place that pretty much just says "don't do anything that would hurt the tribe as a whole" (ie, tending towards small, tribal societies), then a lawful character might almost feel lost not knowing what is expected of them within the social structure (not that their life will fall apart or anything, just they won't understand how others will act necessarily). however, if the laws include stuff like taxes, written-in-stone laws (rather than just coming up with punishments on the spot, on a case-by-case basis), and such, then a lawful character would indeed be more likely to follow them, yes, but only because that agrees with their world view more.

Also, their law-abiding nature with respect to the laws also depends on alignment within the good-evil axis. just because it's legal to own slaves, doesn't mean a lawful good character will own slaves, approve of owning slaves, and indeed, he might take efforts to free the slaves, especially if they are poorly treated.
EvilVegan
06-23-05, 10:27 AM I remove alignment from all my campaigns.

Except for exalted/vile and devils/angels.
CaoSlayer
06-23-05, 10:46 AM okey one of the most common mistakes about aligment it is to take chaos people (like elfs) as lawless...

the chaos people have also laws, but the main diference of the laws between chaotic and lawful people it is that chaos´s laws talk about protecting the person, this freedom and rights as a person, while the law´s laws are about the common well, how a person MUST contribute to the community and how everybody have to cooperate, of course that law tend to make everybody equal.
Nyferto
06-23-05, 12:28 PM Druids Grove test doesn't care about Alignment Restrictions, I think I was a NG Paladin/Bard/Barbarian/Monk of Elhona or something...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CommanderFalken 06-22-05, 04:10 PM	I was just wondering about the AL req. for a bard. Why aren't they allowed to be Lawful? Not to mention the Druid's Grove Test sometimes says that you are lawful and a bard :confused: Just Wondering.
Salla 06-22-05, 04:38 PM	The theory, as I understand it, is that bards are somewhat pigeonholed into the 'wandering minstrel' type, capricious rogues who live on their whims and care nothing for what society expects of them. This is incompatible with the Lawful alignment's respect and adherence to tradition and honor. I disagree and houseruled it away, myself (along with every other alignment restriction in the PHB except the Paladin, and I use the Unearthed Arcana Prestige variant for that). (And I'm guessing the Druid's Grove online test doesn't apply class-alignment filters.)
CzarGarrett 06-23-05, 08:51 AM	IMO, Lawful implies that you stick with a codex of rules made by society, work within the system, and are often quite ordered in their methods. Its not really a Bard. Even if a Bard sticks around an area, his knowledge winds up being scattered- as opposed to an orderly researcher, he's more likely to play different songs each time he plays, stuff like that. Its not to say that a Bard has to be Chaotic. But they're just not really lawful.
CaoSlayer 06-23-05, 09:14 AM	um, I personally liked better the AL restriction of a 2nd edition bard where you had to be neutral in one of the axis at least, just like 3e druids because since bards where used to be diplomats, they couldnt be extremists but neutral in a point of view. (it is better to send a lawful neutral bard from a lawful good kingdom to an evil one than a LG one)
Jaid 06-23-05, 10:16 AM	IMO, Lawful implies that you stick with a codex of rules made by society, work within the system, and are often quite ordered in their methods. well, you're right on the last part. the other two can be attributes of a lawful character (and many times will be). However, lawful != law-abiding. while lawful characters are more likely to obey laws than a chaotic one, i tend to see this as more of a side effect of laws tending to agree with their point of view more often rather than being a love of laws. for example, if the laws of the land are simple, basic, and not very restricting, a chaotic character could very well live within those laws just as easily, if not easier than, a Lawful one. for example, if you are in a place that pretty much just says "don't do anything that would hurt the tribe as a whole" (ie, tending towards small, tribal societies), then a lawful character might almost feel lost not knowing what is expected of them within the social structure (not that their life will fall apart or anything, just they won't understand how others will act necessarily). however, if the laws include stuff like taxes, written-in-stone laws (rather than just coming up with punishments on the spot, on a case-by-case basis), and such, then a lawful character would indeed be more likely to follow them, yes, but only because that agrees with their world view more. Also, their law-abiding nature with respect to the laws also depends on alignment within the good-evil axis. just because it's legal to own slaves, doesn't mean a lawful good character will own slaves, approve of owning slaves, and indeed, he might take efforts to free the slaves, especially if they are poorly treated.
EvilVegan 06-23-05, 10:27 AM	I remove alignment from all my campaigns. Except for exalted/vile and devils/angels.
CaoSlayer 06-23-05, 10:46 AM	okey one of the most common mistakes about aligment it is to take chaos people (like elfs) as lawless... the chaos people have also laws, but the main diference of the laws between chaotic and lawful people it is that chaos´s laws talk about protecting the person, this freedom and rights as a person, while the law´s laws are about the common well, how a person MUST contribute to the community and how everybody have to cooperate, of course that law tend to make everybody equal.
Nyferto 06-23-05, 12:28 PM	Druids Grove test doesn't care about Alignment Restrictions, I think I was a NG Paladin/Bard/Barbarian/Monk of Elhona or something...