Bards & Multiclassing... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bards & Multiclassing... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
El_Shawno
09-23-06, 09:24 PM Evenin' Yinz!

My question is about my bard. I've just started playing him (lvl. 2; he's also my first bard) and while I enjoy the class immensely so far I'm pretty certain that I'm gonna add at least one or two levels of another class to give him a little more,...something.

Here's what I'm thinking - The most likely classes that I'd branch into would be, in particular order, scout, swashbuckler, or rogue. Here's how I see the pros and cons of each class:

Swashbuckler

Pro: Good HD, as in, 10-sided. Good attack bonus. The "flash" factor dovetails nicely with a bard.

Con: Limited skill points. Beyond the "Intelligent Strike" feat, the class is kinda, well, kinda "eh" as far as damage-dealing goes. I already have the "weapon focus" feat.

Scout

Pro: Mucho skill points. Skirmishing would allow me to act as a nice bit of "artillery" for my party after I buff 'em up.

Con: 8-sided HD is ok, but not as strong as the swashbuckler. I'm also a bard, being inconspicuous is kinda not what I'm looking for as far as role-playing goes and Scouts aren't there for "flash."

Rogue

Pro: Sneak attack. Skill points, skill points, and skill points.

Con: Still a 6-sided HD. When am I gonna get a chance to perform AND sneak attack?

I'm currently leaning towards my guy taking 1-3 levels of scout after he's hit
3rd level at Bard but the it's not etched in stone.

Suggestions, questions, comments, anyone?

Thanks!,
El Shawno

P.S. Go easy, will yinz? I'm a newbie. :)
Fuzzy_Logic
09-23-06, 10:49 PM Sticik with Bard, rahter than scout. You can keep increasing the skill that matter to you; unless you really WANT survival and the like, you'll find that the scout's skill list is disappointing. Missing out on perform, diplomacy, and UMD can be a drag. (I dont' have scout on-hand, so I'm just assuming).

Scout gives you VERY slightly better HP, slightly better saves, skirmish, and fast movement. Oh, and Uncanny Dodge. Not that exciting, IMHO.

Bard gives you marginally better BAB, more and better baridc music, and, the real kicker, continuing spell progression. Want fast movement? Take expeditious retreat and run WAY faster than a scout ever could. Artillery? sonic weapon, (Cadv.) gives +1d6 damage, just like skirmish.

You could, instead, pick up sound burst, for an area stun. But your limited spells/day will hurt you.

The best reason, however, to stick with Bard, is not what you look like at level six, but level nine.

Bard Nine has inspire Courage+2, Inspire Greatness, and third level spells. Bard6/Scout3 does not. Bard 9 wins.

You cna still play the agile warrior you want, though, if you have the right books. PHB 2 is a great start. Withf eats like acrobatic strike and combat panache, you can hold your own in melee. Obviously rapid Shot is a good choice for ranged. Take buffs and swift action spells, use Lyric Spell to get more uses out of them, and you cna run a Bard who plays like a Scout. AND buffs his team.
AZNsupermarket
09-24-06, 01:08 AM My first character I ever played was a bard. I wanted some advice from my group's power gamer on how to go about multi-classing as a bard. He then gave me the best advice I ever got: NEVER MULTICLASS AS A SPELLCASTER!

Stick to the rule. You never want to give up spellcasting levels for whatever reason. I mean unless you know what your doing, you shouldn't. With most spellcaster, you can just go into a prestiege class that gives full caster levels and be fine, but with bard, they get really cool bardic music as they level, you don't want to give that up.

So in short, if you want to multiclass, you don't want to be a bard or any spellcaster for that matter, and save your scout/swashbuckler/rogue concept for the next campaign, when you are more familiar with the rules :D
Dark Brandon
09-24-06, 01:18 AM I like taking 1 or 2 levels of marshal and maybe 1 level in dragon shaman, just because the auras stack nicely with bardic abilities, as well as marshal getting a nice bonus skill focus feat at 1st.

If your planning on getting up there (18 or so), I may only take 1 level of each, because mass suggestion is such a nice ability.
Phelot_Plaguecrafter
09-24-06, 01:41 AM I would say your best bet is to find a prestige class that you really like and make towards that instead of a new base class. Especially this early in the game, level 2, that is. You'll be happier with your character's overall performance (no pun intended...) if you just find a decent bard prestige and head in that direction instead.
CaoSlayer
09-24-06, 04:10 AM The only worth multiclass of those three it is rogue, cause you can get search, disable device and trapfinding so you can subtitute a rogue if the party lacks one.

I recomend you whatever you multiclass to, never take more than 4 levels total since taking more will take away your level 6 spellcasting.

If you want melee attack and endurace considere better the prc warchanter.. of if you can aford it, the bladesinger or spellsword, with just four levels of a 1/2 caster class you will end with 4 attacks (bab 16) and level 18 spellcasting.
swindy
09-24-06, 06:08 AM One idea could be to try for the Eldritch knight or something similar. Ok you might have to go a level in fighter or something cos im quite sure bards arent proficient with all martial weapons. Then go get your 3rd level arcane spells then you can have a bard that uses spells and whoops ass (well sort of) in melee. Just a thought.
CaoSlayer
09-24-06, 06:33 AM One idea could be to try for the Eldritch knight or something similar. Ok you might have to go a level in fighter or something cos im quite sure bards arent proficient with all martial weapons. Then go get your 3rd level arcane spells then you can have a bard that uses spells and whoops ass (well sort of) in melee. Just a thought.

Eldritch knight it is AWFUL for a bard, the benefits of the prc are near to null, you only get better bab for bardic music, bardic knowledge and a lot of skills.. also you give up two caster levels...
Seriously it is one of the worst options available.
Tensaiga
09-24-06, 06:53 AM It all depends on how bardy you wish to be. One interesting twist is for you to throw in 2 rogue levels and a druid level. Sounds odd, not TOO many benefits outright, but it opens up Fochlucan Lyrist, which will give you full BAB, 2 good saves, it's levels stack with bard as far as music goes, and the best part is that not only does it give you full bard spell progression, but you also get full druid progression too.

Meaning instead of casting as a level 18 bard, you could cast as a 15 bard and an 11 druid, with songs as a 15 bard as well. Your saves would be 7/13/14 instead of 6/11/11 and your BAB would even be 1 higher! Even better, you would be on track to hit 16 BAB and therefore 4 attacks per round wether you took the final 2 levels in druid OR bard.

This takes a certain frame of mind, however, and drastically changes the way you have to think about your bard. A matter of taste, although the crunch is much better. You can play around with bard and druid levels for differing amounts of casting from each, or even do some tricks to meet the requirements for Fochulcan Lyrist earlier, but that is more the realm of the CO board.
alasterchan
09-24-06, 08:16 AM If you DM uses the new Tome of Battle - Book of Nine Swords, you can multiclass with Warblade one or two levels to get 4 skill points, d12 HD, and fighter attack bonus, you can take the White Raven aura that give +2 to will to your group all the time and you can buy a new feat "Song of the White Raven" that allows you to use inspire courage as a swift action. I think is the best multiclass for a bard.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
El_Shawno 09-23-06, 09:24 PM	Evenin' Yinz! My question is about my bard. I've just started playing him (lvl. 2; he's also my first bard) and while I enjoy the class immensely so far I'm pretty certain that I'm gonna add at least one or two levels of another class to give him a little more,...something. Here's what I'm thinking - The most likely classes that I'd branch into would be, in particular order, scout, swashbuckler, or rogue. Here's how I see the pros and cons of each class: Swashbuckler Pro: Good HD, as in, 10-sided. Good attack bonus. The "flash" factor dovetails nicely with a bard. Con: Limited skill points. Beyond the "Intelligent Strike" feat, the class is kinda, well, kinda "eh" as far as damage-dealing goes. I already have the "weapon focus" feat. Scout Pro: Mucho skill points. Skirmishing would allow me to act as a nice bit of "artillery" for my party after I buff 'em up. Con: 8-sided HD is ok, but not as strong as the swashbuckler. I'm also a bard, being inconspicuous is kinda not what I'm looking for as far as role-playing goes and Scouts aren't there for "flash." Rogue Pro: Sneak attack. Skill points, skill points, and skill points. Con: Still a 6-sided HD. When am I gonna get a chance to perform AND sneak attack? I'm currently leaning towards my guy taking 1-3 levels of scout after he's hit 3rd level at Bard but the it's not etched in stone. Suggestions, questions, comments, anyone? Thanks!, El Shawno P.S. Go easy, will yinz? I'm a newbie. :)
Fuzzy_Logic 09-23-06, 10:49 PM	Sticik with Bard, rahter than scout. You can keep increasing the skill that matter to you; unless you really WANT survival and the like, you'll find that the scout's skill list is disappointing. Missing out on perform, diplomacy, and UMD can be a drag. (I dont' have scout on-hand, so I'm just assuming). Scout gives you VERY slightly better HP, slightly better saves, skirmish, and fast movement. Oh, and Uncanny Dodge. Not that exciting, IMHO. Bard gives you marginally better BAB, more and better baridc music, and, the real kicker, continuing spell progression. Want fast movement? Take expeditious retreat and run WAY faster than a scout ever could. Artillery? sonic weapon, (Cadv.) gives +1d6 damage, just like skirmish. You could, instead, pick up sound burst, for an area stun. But your limited spells/day will hurt you. The best reason, however, to stick with Bard, is not what you look like at level six, but level nine. Bard Nine has inspire Courage+2, Inspire Greatness, and third level spells. Bard6/Scout3 does not. Bard 9 wins. You cna still play the agile warrior you want, though, if you have the right books. PHB 2 is a great start. Withf eats like acrobatic strike and combat panache, you can hold your own in melee. Obviously rapid Shot is a good choice for ranged. Take buffs and swift action spells, use Lyric Spell to get more uses out of them, and you cna run a Bard who plays like a Scout. AND buffs his team.
AZNsupermarket 09-24-06, 01:08 AM	My first character I ever played was a bard. I wanted some advice from my group's power gamer on how to go about multi-classing as a bard. He then gave me the best advice I ever got: NEVER MULTICLASS AS A SPELLCASTER! Stick to the rule. You never want to give up spellcasting levels for whatever reason. I mean unless you know what your doing, you shouldn't. With most spellcaster, you can just go into a prestiege class that gives full caster levels and be fine, but with bard, they get really cool bardic music as they level, you don't want to give that up. So in short, if you want to multiclass, you don't want to be a bard or any spellcaster for that matter, and save your scout/swashbuckler/rogue concept for the next campaign, when you are more familiar with the rules :D
Dark Brandon 09-24-06, 01:18 AM	I like taking 1 or 2 levels of marshal and maybe 1 level in dragon shaman, just because the auras stack nicely with bardic abilities, as well as marshal getting a nice bonus skill focus feat at 1st. If your planning on getting up there (18 or so), I may only take 1 level of each, because mass suggestion is such a nice ability.
Phelot_Plaguecrafter 09-24-06, 01:41 AM	I would say your best bet is to find a prestige class that you really like and make towards that instead of a new base class. Especially this early in the game, level 2, that is. You'll be happier with your character's overall performance (no pun intended...) if you just find a decent bard prestige and head in that direction instead.
CaoSlayer 09-24-06, 04:10 AM	The only worth multiclass of those three it is rogue, cause you can get search, disable device and trapfinding so you can subtitute a rogue if the party lacks one. I recomend you whatever you multiclass to, never take more than 4 levels total since taking more will take away your level 6 spellcasting. If you want melee attack and endurace considere better the prc warchanter.. of if you can aford it, the bladesinger or spellsword, with just four levels of a 1/2 caster class you will end with 4 attacks (bab 16) and level 18 spellcasting.
swindy 09-24-06, 06:08 AM	One idea could be to try for the Eldritch knight or something similar. Ok you might have to go a level in fighter or something cos im quite sure bards arent proficient with all martial weapons. Then go get your 3rd level arcane spells then you can have a bard that uses spells and whoops ass (well sort of) in melee. Just a thought.
CaoSlayer 09-24-06, 06:33 AM	One idea could be to try for the Eldritch knight or something similar. Ok you might have to go a level in fighter or something cos im quite sure bards arent proficient with all martial weapons. Then go get your 3rd level arcane spells then you can have a bard that uses spells and whoops ass (well sort of) in melee. Just a thought. Eldritch knight it is AWFUL for a bard, the benefits of the prc are near to null, you only get better bab for bardic music, bardic knowledge and a lot of skills.. also you give up two caster levels... Seriously it is one of the worst options available.
Tensaiga 09-24-06, 06:53 AM	It all depends on how bardy you wish to be. One interesting twist is for you to throw in 2 rogue levels and a druid level. Sounds odd, not TOO many benefits outright, but it opens up Fochlucan Lyrist, which will give you full BAB, 2 good saves, it's levels stack with bard as far as music goes, and the best part is that not only does it give you full bard spell progression, but you also get full druid progression too. Meaning instead of casting as a level 18 bard, you could cast as a 15 bard and an 11 druid, with songs as a 15 bard as well. Your saves would be 7/13/14 instead of 6/11/11 and your BAB would even be 1 higher! Even better, you would be on track to hit 16 BAB and therefore 4 attacks per round wether you took the final 2 levels in druid OR bard. This takes a certain frame of mind, however, and drastically changes the way you have to think about your bard. A matter of taste, although the crunch is much better. You can play around with bard and druid levels for differing amounts of casting from each, or even do some tricks to meet the requirements for Fochulcan Lyrist earlier, but that is more the realm of the CO board.
alasterchan 09-24-06, 08:16 AM	If you DM uses the new Tome of Battle - Book of Nine Swords, you can multiclass with Warblade one or two levels to get 4 skill points, d12 HD, and fighter attack bonus, you can take the White Raven aura that give +2 to will to your group all the time and you can buy a new feat "Song of the White Raven" that allows you to use inspire courage as a swift action. I think is the best multiclass for a bard.