Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dengarbountyhunter 06-28-07, 09:26 AM	...But I don't really have to tell you that. I have trouble with instruments. Obviously, Perform (sing) is ZEE best kind of Perform you can get: you keep your hands free, your voice can't get sundered, your larynx doesn't count against your carrying capacity, it's free... The only disadvantage is that you can't get a masterwork voice... Though again, with grafts... But for those of us who prefer to play bards with, I don't know, a fife, a lute, a lyre, a drum, or a bagpipe... You have to carry it, you have to draw it (move action), to play it with both hands, and even to assemble and tune them for minutes it in some cases (bagpipes, I'm looking at you). Are there any ways to make INSTRUMENTS less of a trouble? Extradimentionnal storing items? "Dancing" instruments (as the dancing weapon property)? Giving some bonuses to instruments and not to Perform (sing)? I know that Complete Adventurer does that already, but these bonuses are really more flavour than usefulness... I know that you shouldn't get bonuses for choosing a suboptimal but flavourful character ("I wanna be blind so I can get blindsense!"), but still... So, suggestions, comments, please no insults, and thanks in advance! Oh, and bards get love IN the game thanks to their high Charisma :).
The_Shaman 06-28-07, 10:31 AM	...But I don't really have to tell you that. I have trouble with instruments. Obviously, Perform (sing) is ZEE best kind of Perform you can get: you keep your hands free, your voice can't get sundered, your larynx doesn't count against your carrying capacity, it's free... The only disadvantage is that you can't get a masterwork voice... Though again, with grafts... But for those of us who prefer to play bards with, I don't know, a fife, a lute, a lyre, a drum, or a bagpipe... You have to carry it, you have to draw it (move action), to play it with both hands, and even to assemble and tune them for minutes it in some cases (bagpipes, I'm looking at you). Are there any ways to make INSTRUMENTS less of a trouble? Extradimentionnal storing items? "Dancing" instruments (as the dancing weapon property)? Giving some bonuses to instruments and not to Perform (sing)? I know that Complete Adventurer does that already, but these bonuses are really more flavour than usefulness... I know that you shouldn't get bonuses for choosing a suboptimal but flavourful character ("I wanna be blind so I can get blindsense!"), but still... So, suggestions, comments, please no insults, and thanks in advance! Oh, and bards get love IN the game thanks to their high Charisma :). "Extradimentionnal storing items? " Er, glove of storing is in the DMG, if I remember correctly, not to mention THE Handy Haversack. Call instrument is a cantrip. Dancing... I don't think I've seen it, but if you find an itemcrafting spellcaster you can cook something up. As for the bonuses... I don't know, some of the magical instruments in CAdv, MoF and elsewhere have rather useful bonuses for anything that looks at your perform check - and there are some feats or PrCs that make that perform check count for quite a bit. Dirgesinger, for example, or the virtuoso melody (and afaik a CAdv spell) that made a caster make a concentrate check vs your perform check to cast. Just find a way to boost song effect area (now that might be a nice effect for an instrument) and you are golden.
Lawkeeper 06-28-07, 11:07 AM	Dancing instruments... my mind can't help but evoking the sight of a singing bard followed by an orchestra of floating instruments...:D
Zémobiel 06-28-07, 11:13 AM	Remember me that once i had a magical mini-bell that i was able to transform in any instrument. The main use i had of it was to transform it in achurch bell or a orge and let it drop on the enemis from the high
Lotus Crane 06-28-07, 11:34 AM	While normal instruments don't always offer a clear advantage, due to their trade-offs (though a 1st level bard who can provide a +2 instead of +1 bonus on attack rolls is basically twice as useful), there are a number of magical instruments which do provide signficant benefits. However, you are quite mistaken about bards not getting any love. A bard 8->Lyric Thaumaturge 2->Sublime Chord 2->Lyric Thaumaturge 8 (or alternatively, bard 6->Lyric Thaumaturge 5->Sublime Chord 2->any arcane PrC 9, if your DM rules that Sublime Chord's improved spell progression no longer counts as "bard spellcasting ability") is generally a more versatile spellcaster than the average sorcerer, especially because you can abuse the powerful Otto's irresistible dance with 6th-9th level spell slots, instead of just 8th-9th spell slots like a sorcerer would. Another fantastic spell to take is the usually sorcerer/wizard-only great thunderclap, especially with Sonic Might and Born of the Three Thunders, which lets you cast a 3rd level spell that forces 2 different saves against being stunned and 2 different saves against being knocked prone - in other words, enemies lose almost automatically. Or if you prefer going the other way, Arcane Strike, Snowflake Wardance, and War Chanter can turn you into a melee combatant comparable to the average fighter.
bobothechimp 06-28-07, 12:10 PM	Perform (Whistle)
dengarbountyhunter 06-29-07, 05:43 PM	Perform (whistle) is no joke, there was a halfling PrC all about that. And I didn't know about all those PrCs you mentioned, Lotus Crane... let me reformulate: CORE bards don't get love! Seriously, all the things they had to come up with to make the bard good... But this thread isn't a debate or rant about the suckiness or power of bards. Well, thanks for your input, the Glove of Storing indeed is a good idea... *Slams head on keyboard* why didn't I think of that one... Oh and Zémobiel, un orgue, c'est "organ" (church organ la plupart du temps) en anglais...
Chimaera2000 06-29-07, 10:16 PM	Core bards don't get love?!? Take a good, long look at the fascinate ability. Notice that its save DC is "you lose." Then take a look at suggestion. Notice that there is no limit to the number of suggestions that you can send at an enemy. I'm not kidding when I say that these abilities can end an encounter single-handedly.
jimpaladin 06-29-07, 10:53 PM	Are you considering that you only can have perform instrument or song? What about perform poetry or perform tales of glory. There are different bards for different ideas. A Bard reciting his country's famous figures of legend would certainly be inspiring. As you mentioned a Bagpipe is really all you need(including the bard:D )
Lawkeeper 07-02-07, 02:26 AM	Yeah. Off the nine perform skills referred to in the srd/PHB, only four concern musical instruments (keyboard, string, wind and percussion instruments), the other five being instrument-less (act, comedy, dance, oratory and sing). That said, clapping on your belly with your hands is actually doing percussions, so if you want Perform (percussion instruments) without hauling a tam-tam...;)
periscope 07-02-07, 03:35 AM	perform comedy is gold: Hey squidface! Your momma so.......I apologize but its far to "colorful" for the delicate ears of some on the boards :Says with mindflayer standing behind him, eyes glowing: