Bards without Spellcasting Variant [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bards without Spellcasting Variant [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Serendan
10-02-06, 04:32 PM I'm creating my own world but the catch to it is, there's no arcane magic (as of yet). I've gone through and found the classes that fit in the setting but of them all, bards pose a problem and I was wondering if anyone has any ideas on what I could substitute a bard's spellcasting with?
Redmoon
10-02-06, 05:02 PM there's a variant at athas.org that's nice. Warning, though; there's a very different feel to it. That variant plays more of a rogue & assassin role than the standard bard.

They keep the bardic abilities, except spellcasting. In return for spellcasting, they gain poison use, and some sneaky abilities that one would expect of a smuggler or assassin. They remain undetected by magic, and it's difficult to read their minds, to draw information out of them through magical powers.

Very nice class, and it adds a bit of direct combat ability to the bard, rather than just buffing spells. Being able to use poisons, and the couple combat-related feats they gain go a long way for making it a fighter.
Shadowfax7
10-02-06, 10:22 PM I use a spell-less variant Bard in my campaign.

The Bard loses spell-casting and gains a bonus feat at 4th level and a bonus feat every 3 levels thereafter (7th, 10th, 13th, 16th, 19th) for a total of 6 bonus feats in non-epic levels. This amount of feats doesn't step on the toes of the Fighter IMO.

These bonus feats can be used for any general feat, including Bardic Music Ability feats (no Metamagic or Item Creation feats, but then w/o spell-casting those feats are useless).

I have found this makes for a very versatile Bard class. With the right choice of feats you can make a fighting Bard, a roguish Bard, a musician Bard, etc.

I also give the Bard Heal as a class skill, but that is specific to my campaign as Bards are known to be natural healers.
Fabius Maximus
10-03-06, 08:01 AM There also is one in the Dragon Issue with the Dark Sun update. Don't know the number, though.
Lael
10-04-06, 01:33 AM Uneather Arcana has a Divine Bard variant if you have divine magic.
LordPendragon
10-04-06, 02:25 PM When designing a spell-less Bard, I went the feats route, but slightly different. I took Trapfinding and Evasion from the Rogue, and added 4 bonus feats.

There are a couple different ways you can make the switch...

Skillmonkey Bard - No spells, Trapfinding, Evasion, 3-4 bonus feats.

Combat Bard - No spells, no Bardic Knowledge, no Fascinate or Suggestion, D8 HD, 7-8 bonus feats.

Musical Bard - No spells, +1 to all bonuses and DCs for music effects (scales to +2 eventually), 4-5 bonus music feats (such as Green Ear, Requiem, Subsonics, Extra Music, etc

Obviously, I prefer the skillmonkey Bard, since I'm a skill***** :tongue:
Shadowfax7
10-04-06, 07:47 PM When designing a spell-less Bard, I went the feats route, but slightly different. I took Trapfinding and Evasion from the Rogue, and added 4 bonus feats.If I may comment on your version, giving Evasion to a spell-less Bard is not a bad idea at all. I never thought about that when designing my spell-less variant. It helps them survive area effect damage better w/o magical healing.

What I don't like is Evasion to the Ranger even though the same reason applies, but that's another thread altogether.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Serendan 10-02-06, 04:32 PM	I'm creating my own world but the catch to it is, there's no arcane magic (as of yet). I've gone through and found the classes that fit in the setting but of them all, bards pose a problem and I was wondering if anyone has any ideas on what I could substitute a bard's spellcasting with?
Redmoon 10-02-06, 05:02 PM	there's a variant at athas.org that's nice. Warning, though; there's a very different feel to it. That variant plays more of a rogue & assassin role than the standard bard. They keep the bardic abilities, except spellcasting. In return for spellcasting, they gain poison use, and some sneaky abilities that one would expect of a smuggler or assassin. They remain undetected by magic, and it's difficult to read their minds, to draw information out of them through magical powers. Very nice class, and it adds a bit of direct combat ability to the bard, rather than just buffing spells. Being able to use poisons, and the couple combat-related feats they gain go a long way for making it a fighter.
Shadowfax7 10-02-06, 10:22 PM	I use a spell-less variant Bard in my campaign. The Bard loses spell-casting and gains a bonus feat at 4th level and a bonus feat every 3 levels thereafter (7th, 10th, 13th, 16th, 19th) for a total of 6 bonus feats in non-epic levels. This amount of feats doesn't step on the toes of the Fighter IMO. These bonus feats can be used for any general feat, including Bardic Music Ability feats (no Metamagic or Item Creation feats, but then w/o spell-casting those feats are useless). I have found this makes for a very versatile Bard class. With the right choice of feats you can make a fighting Bard, a roguish Bard, a musician Bard, etc. I also give the Bard Heal as a class skill, but that is specific to my campaign as Bards are known to be natural healers.
Fabius Maximus 10-03-06, 08:01 AM	There also is one in the Dragon Issue with the Dark Sun update. Don't know the number, though.
Lael 10-04-06, 01:33 AM	Uneather Arcana has a Divine Bard variant if you have divine magic.
LordPendragon 10-04-06, 02:25 PM	When designing a spell-less Bard, I went the feats route, but slightly different. I took Trapfinding and Evasion from the Rogue, and added 4 bonus feats. There are a couple different ways you can make the switch... Skillmonkey Bard - No spells, Trapfinding, Evasion, 3-4 bonus feats. Combat Bard - No spells, no Bardic Knowledge, no Fascinate or Suggestion, D8 HD, 7-8 bonus feats. Musical Bard - No spells, +1 to all bonuses and DCs for music effects (scales to +2 eventually), 4-5 bonus music feats (such as Green Ear, Requiem, Subsonics, Extra Music, etc Obviously, I prefer the skillmonkey Bard, since I'm a skill***** :tongue:
Shadowfax7 10-04-06, 07:47 PM	When designing a spell-less Bard, I went the feats route, but slightly different. I took Trapfinding and Evasion from the Rogue, and added 4 bonus feats.If I may comment on your version, giving Evasion to a spell-less Bard is not a bad idea at all. I never thought about that when designing my spell-less variant. It helps them survive area effect damage better w/o magical healing. What I don't like is Evasion to the Ranger even though the same reason applies, but that's another thread altogether.