Bards: love them or not [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bards: love them or not [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
angryman
10-23-06, 11:17 AM I'm curious. I want to make a bard-like character. The aspects I like are a) general likeability, b) party buffer and c) party 'face'. Wouldn't this be better achieved by a sorcerer?
Nephlite
10-23-06, 11:34 AM I'm curious. I want to make a bard-like character. The aspects I like are a) general likeability, b) party buffer and c) party 'face'. Wouldn't this be better achieved by a sorcerer?
Diplomacy is a Bard class skill, not a Sorceror one.

If your party face never speaks as "face" than Sorc is fine. But since Sorc can only cross rank at most, his results will be lower.

Depending on how much/good the performance checks: your Bard can be greatly liked. Plus, you make money.
RobbyPants
10-23-06, 11:44 AM I'm curious. I want to make a bard-like character. The aspects I like are a) general likeability,
I personally don't play bards much, but that has nothing to do with whether or not I like them, but that I frequently play in fairly small groups. Bards make a great 5th character, augmenting many roles, but not excelling at any (in the classical 4: warrior, expert, divine, arcane). They also do well in larger groups due to some of their bardic music abilities. In the right circumstances, they are a wonderful class.

b) party buffer
I'd have to look closely at their spell list. In terms of spells, CoDzilla will probably do better, but bards do have their music. I ran a game once with a bard, and the player had no problem sitting out of combat routinly to grant his allies all their bonuses. This is just from my minor observations. I have little experience playing/running bards.

and c) party 'face'. Wouldn't this be better achieved by a sorcerer?
I would think as far as core classes go, the bard or paladin would make the best party face.
PolasKasDorion
10-23-06, 12:22 PM Diplomacy can be a Class skill for a sorcerer.... just have to take Draconic Heritage with a Crystal Dragon heritage.

Personally, what you want definitely sounds more like a bard though. Sure, a Sorcerer could be customized to fit this role, but ... well... why would you want to make a sorcerer suck?

That's just opinion of course... I'm not a fan of Bards, but I guess they do have their uses. If you're not starting at first level, a specialized Sorcerer might actually be better for the party buffing and what not. My current Kobold Sorcerer has a higher Diplomacy than our party Bard too. So really, either way is possible.
Becks
10-23-06, 04:10 PM I realy think that bard makes one of the beast character you can have. And more than off course it does a lot better than anyone in social parts of an adventure.

There is always the combos to buff allies with inspire corage, "wich" (is that right?) is very good to do with your allies (they will love you).
malignor
10-23-06, 04:34 PM I'm curious. I want to make a bard-like character. The aspects I like are a) general likeability, b) party buffer and c) party 'face'. Wouldn't this be better achieved by a sorcerer?a - who doesn't like having a bard in the group? Bards are great. They fill up the gaps in a party's abilities, allowing everyone else to go hog-wild on focusing their build.

b - bards are so-so buffers for magic, but they have those class abilities (music) as well, which makes up for it. I say bards are great buffers. Also gives you something to do when facing mindless things like constructs and undead (stuff your enchantments won't work on).

c - no. Sorcerers have charisma and Bluff, but they have unimpressive skill ranks and no Diplomacy or Sense Motive. Bards have the skill set to dominate as party face, bar none. Plus they're enchanters as well, so they can still manipulate (via magic) those they can't convince.

NOTE: Bards can be either heaven or hell to play. Seriously consider every kind of challenge the party would face, and build your bard so as to not be left standing around bored half the time. The most common example I've seen is ignoring the possibility of undead, vermin and constructs and the like. They select mostly enchantments, and use a rapier, resulting in someone who's utterly useless and spends entire game sessions going "*sigh* I sing... I sing again and keep on singing because it's all I can do at a time like this".

If you got for a buffer who can do a little damage or incapacitation on his own, you'll be in for a real treat.
Rerednaw
10-23-06, 04:46 PM Bards can be fairly powerful. The downside for many is that they can be extremely boring. Also what books are allowed?

Why love a bard (core reasons):

Roleplaying (e.g. frequently used as a justification if the class is weak.) but bard is the roleplaying class.

Glibness. If there's one thing the bard excels at, it's b.s.

Fascinate with a performance check as the DC for the will save? Great!

The all-mighty UMD is a class skill.

Your casting stat is the same as your stat for your main skills.

Bardic Lore (free identifies).

Why hate a bard.

"Wait I was going to Fascinate the monster!"

At best you are second best.

One second level spell ruins your day from levels 1-20.

Many of your abilities are duplicated by spells that overlap not stack.

Player 1:"I evoke a wall of fire that roasts the hapless foes!"
Player 2:"I change into a Dire Bear and rip into the enemy!"
Player 3:"I bring the fallen ally back to life!"
Player 4:"I power attack the foe into strawberry malt!"
The Bard: "I launch forth into a stirring refrain of mighty heroes and fiendish foes---oh you mean the game effect? You fight at +2"

If your DM allows for non-core material the Bard definitely gets a power-up. Inspirational Boost adds 1 to your Inspire Courage ability, your bread and butter. Versatile Performer feat adds flexibility to your performance and an effective boost for your Perform based save DCs. Words of Creation from Complete Divine also stacks. And then there's the Eberron stuff.

With the right build you can make the party fight at +7 (or more) but the time you hit level 10 or so. The fighters can power attack to their heart's delight. Your party will be making their saves a lot more often.

I'm curious. I want to make a bard-like character. The aspects I like are a) general likeability, b) party buffer and c) party 'face'. Wouldn't this be better achieved by a sorcerer?

a) Liked by who?

b) Overlapped by spells.

c) Any class with a decent cha and diplomacy skill can do this. Is diplomacy a big factor in your campaign?
Roland the Crownbreaker
10-23-06, 06:28 PM I am presently playing bard myself. My advice is..........

One: Max out UMD. This is one of your most important skills, second only to perform. This way, when you face those pesky undead that can't be enchanted or hurt by your rapier, you can always whip out that wand you keep for such emergencies.

Two: Skill Synergies. Get to know what they are. Use them. Love them. Having such an insane skill list means you can max very little if you plan to know alot. Those little +2 bonuses are your friends.

Three: If the Complete Mage is allowed, take the Melodic Casting feat. It gives two huge things to a bard. First, it allows you to cast spells or activate magic items while maintaining a song. No more dropping the effect because someone needs a spot heal. Second, it allows you to use the perform skill in place of concentration. Besides the obvious fact that this increases your chances of making that check, it also frees up the ranks you would have spent in that skill. And let's face it, to be useful, concentration has to be maxed.

Four: While this is just my opinion, don't look at any of the prestige classes. They all take away something that you will need in exchange for something that doesn't compare with what you just lost. (Although the Sublime Chord gives a great deal, in the end I feel it is just a second rate sorcerer)
krossbow
10-23-06, 10:20 PM Get ironskin chant and arcane strike with a whip dagger. You'll be amazed at what an incredible tank you've suddenly become. Seriously, nova-fricking-city.
angryman
10-23-06, 10:40 PM Sounds kinda cool. I'm kind of the opinion that the bard is a little underpowered. They seem like a "second tier" class, behind the "holy trinity" (druid, cleric & wizard) and similar in power to monk and barbarian but ahead of fighters.

I was thinking more of a Skald-type bard, so maybe even a barbarian level or two, but then I can't rage and sing, can I?
EberronMoses
10-23-06, 11:01 PM Sure u can, They'll call it ye old heavy metal. Just find an evoker/architect to help u build the worlds first electric guitar and amp and imagine how popular u'll be in the local tavern.
AZNsupermarket
10-23-06, 11:54 PM Three: If the Complete Mage is allowed, take the Melodic Casting feat. It gives two huge things to a bard. First, it allows you to cast spells or activate magic items while maintaining a song. No more dropping the effect because someone needs a spot heal. Second, it allows you to use the perform skill in place of concentration. Besides the obvious fact that this increases your chances of making that check, it also frees up the ranks you would have spent in that skill. And let's face it, to be useful, concentration has to be maxed.
You just made me want to buy Complete Mage :D
Comfort_in_Insanity
10-23-06, 11:58 PM Sounds kinda cool. I'm kind of the opinion that the bard is a little underpowered. They seem like a "second tier" class, behind the "holy trinity" (druid, cleric & wizard) and similar in power to monk and barbarian but ahead of fighters.

I was thinking more of a Skald-type bard, so maybe even a barbarian level or two, but then I can't rage and sing, can I?

There's a savage bard variant in Unearthed Arcana, I believe. I forget what this does, though >_>
Becks
10-24-06, 04:24 PM Three: If the Complete Mage is allowed, take the Melodic Casting feat. It gives two huge things to a bard. First, it allows you to cast spells or activate magic items while maintaining a song. No more dropping the effect because someone needs a spot heal. Second, it allows you to use the perform skill in place of concentration. Besides the obvious fact that this increases your chances of making that check, it also frees up the ranks you would have spent in that skill. And let's face it, to be useful, concentration has to be maxed.

I don't have this book and I'm realy interesting in get this feat. Could you plese give the original text (pre requisites, benefit and so on) of this?
Becks
10-24-06, 04:28 PM There's a savage bard variant in Unearthed Arcana, I believe. I forget what this does, though >_>

I think it gives more wild skill. But there one thing that sucks: You can't read or write. I'm not sure if it troubles you with speak language skill, but I dislIke the changes you'll have.
Becks
10-24-06, 04:36 PM Four: While this is just my opinion, don't look at any of the prestige classes. They all take away something that you will need in exchange for something that doesn't compare with what you just lost. (Although the Sublime Chord gives a great deal, in the end I feel it is just a second rate sorcerer)

Unfortunly I have to agree with you, there is no such a good prestige for bard (I don't know complete mage already,but still). I looked in all my books (a DVD of those) and can't find a one that a like that much.

Finally a make a Fochlucan Lyrist (not sure if it's writen right), not because it's powerfull or because it's fun and mach with my character storyline: A human bard from rashemen who will marry a hatran one day (wich is from my group).
The_Shaman
10-24-06, 06:24 PM How about the harper PrCs? They are basically made for bards, and most tend to extend your normal stuff and give a few bonuses besides.
Arcane Guyver
10-24-06, 06:38 PM My only suggestions - try to pick spells known that are bard-only, and keep an eye out for feats that expand your bardic music ability. Eberron gives a few neat options for bards (specifically the ability to take certain bardic feats rather than the prechosen bardic abilities at 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, and 18th levels).
SageBahamut
10-24-06, 07:32 PM I do love Bards. They are indeed a great 5th character, party face, and all that. I will throw my weight behind almost everything that has been said so far.

Almost.

I disagree on one very important issue. I do believe there is one prestige class for which a Bard can qualify that even (gasp!) justifies the lost caster level. Warweaver. You lose 1 level of spellcasting and 5 levels of Bardic Knowledge (whoop-de-doo) to get Eldritch Tapestry (read: target your CHA mod in people as one creature with any Harmless spell), and at fourth level extend the range of your spells from Touch to Short, Short to Medium, Medium to Long.
And four out of five levels are +1 Spellcasting Class spells.
AND you get Quiescent Weaving... which is tasty enough for me to make you wait to see what it does.
All for the low low price of 8 ranks in Craft (Weaving) and Enlarge Spell.

And yes, stick to Bard-only spells. And party buffs. Because then your Cleric can focus on laying the righteous smack down left right and center while you make everyone else Uber. All at once.
Becks
10-25-06, 03:53 PM I do love Bards. They are indeed a great 5th character, party face, and all that. I will throw my weight behind almost everything that has been said so far.

Almost.

I disagree on one very important issue. I do believe there is one prestige class for which a Bard can qualify that even (gasp!) justifies the lost caster level. Warweaver. You lose 1 level of spellcasting and 5 levels of Bardic Knowledge (whoop-de-doo) to get Eldritch Tapestry (read: target your CHA mod in people as one creature with any Harmless spell), and at fourth level extend the range of your spells from Touch to Short, Short to Medium, Medium to Long.
And four out of five levels are +1 Spellcasting Class spells.
AND you get Quiescent Weaving... which is tasty enough for me to make you wait to see what it does.
All for the low low price of 8 ranks in Craft (Weaving) and Enlarge Spell.

And yes, stick to Bard-only spells. And party buffs. Because then your Cleric can focus on laying the righteous smack down left right and center while you make everyone else Uber. All at once.

The larger range for your spells looks nice, where I can find it?
krossbow
10-25-06, 04:00 PM Bards are one of the most useful classes that other PC's are prone to dismiss

Seriously, in a 5 man party, he's a juggernaut of buffing.
Becks
10-25-06, 04:09 PM Once a read that druid cohort make a interesting combination with a bard of inspire corage. Does the Fochlucan Lyrist is similar to this?
Becks
10-25-06, 04:11 PM To make it better I was wandering about Melodic Casting (this way you don't need to stop your inspire corage to conjurate your nature allies
Becks
10-25-06, 04:13 PM Important question: the instrument of the wind (to conjure a large air elemental), how long the air elemental is activeted?

My DM is pressuring me for that.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
angryman 10-23-06, 11:17 AM	I'm curious. I want to make a bard-like character. The aspects I like are a) general likeability, b) party buffer and c) party 'face'. Wouldn't this be better achieved by a sorcerer?
Nephlite 10-23-06, 11:34 AM	I'm curious. I want to make a bard-like character. The aspects I like are a) general likeability, b) party buffer and c) party 'face'. Wouldn't this be better achieved by a sorcerer? Diplomacy is a Bard class skill, not a Sorceror one. If your party face never speaks as "face" than Sorc is fine. But since Sorc can only cross rank at most, his results will be lower. Depending on how much/good the performance checks: your Bard can be greatly liked. Plus, you make money.
RobbyPants 10-23-06, 11:44 AM	I'm curious. I want to make a bard-like character. The aspects I like are a) general likeability, I personally don't play bards much, but that has nothing to do with whether or not I like them, but that I frequently play in fairly small groups. Bards make a great 5th character, augmenting many roles, but not excelling at any (in the classical 4: warrior, expert, divine, arcane). They also do well in larger groups due to some of their bardic music abilities. In the right circumstances, they are a wonderful class. b) party buffer I'd have to look closely at their spell list. In terms of spells, CoDzilla will probably do better, but bards do have their music. I ran a game once with a bard, and the player had no problem sitting out of combat routinly to grant his allies all their bonuses. This is just from my minor observations. I have little experience playing/running bards. and c) party 'face'. Wouldn't this be better achieved by a sorcerer? I would think as far as core classes go, the bard or paladin would make the best party face.
PolasKasDorion 10-23-06, 12:22 PM	Diplomacy can be a Class skill for a sorcerer.... just have to take Draconic Heritage with a Crystal Dragon heritage. Personally, what you want definitely sounds more like a bard though. Sure, a Sorcerer could be customized to fit this role, but ... well... why would you want to make a sorcerer suck? That's just opinion of course... I'm not a fan of Bards, but I guess they do have their uses. If you're not starting at first level, a specialized Sorcerer might actually be better for the party buffing and what not. My current Kobold Sorcerer has a higher Diplomacy than our party Bard too. So really, either way is possible.
Becks 10-23-06, 04:10 PM	I realy think that bard makes one of the beast character you can have. And more than off course it does a lot better than anyone in social parts of an adventure. There is always the combos to buff allies with inspire corage, "wich" (is that right?) is very good to do with your allies (they will love you).
malignor 10-23-06, 04:34 PM	I'm curious. I want to make a bard-like character. The aspects I like are a) general likeability, b) party buffer and c) party 'face'. Wouldn't this be better achieved by a sorcerer?a - who doesn't like having a bard in the group? Bards are great. They fill up the gaps in a party's abilities, allowing everyone else to go hog-wild on focusing their build. b - bards are so-so buffers for magic, but they have those class abilities (music) as well, which makes up for it. I say bards are great buffers. Also gives you something to do when facing mindless things like constructs and undead (stuff your enchantments won't work on). c - no. Sorcerers have charisma and Bluff, but they have unimpressive skill ranks and no Diplomacy or Sense Motive. Bards have the skill set to dominate as party face, bar none. Plus they're enchanters as well, so they can still manipulate (via magic) those they can't convince. NOTE: Bards can be either heaven or hell to play. Seriously consider every kind of challenge the party would face, and build your bard so as to not be left standing around bored half the time. The most common example I've seen is ignoring the possibility of undead, vermin and constructs and the like. They select mostly enchantments, and use a rapier, resulting in someone who's utterly useless and spends entire game sessions going "sigh I sing... I sing again and keep on singing because it's all I can do at a time like this". If you got for a buffer who can do a little damage or incapacitation on his own, you'll be in for a real treat.
Rerednaw 10-23-06, 04:46 PM	Bards can be fairly powerful. The downside for many is that they can be extremely boring. Also what books are allowed? Why love a bard (core reasons): Roleplaying (e.g. frequently used as a justification if the class is weak.) but bard is the roleplaying class. Glibness. If there's one thing the bard excels at, it's b.s. Fascinate with a performance check as the DC for the will save? Great! The all-mighty UMD is a class skill. Your casting stat is the same as your stat for your main skills. Bardic Lore (free identifies). Why hate a bard. "Wait I was going to Fascinate the monster!" At best you are second best. One second level spell ruins your day from levels 1-20. Many of your abilities are duplicated by spells that overlap not stack. Player 1:"I evoke a wall of fire that roasts the hapless foes!" Player 2:"I change into a Dire Bear and rip into the enemy!" Player 3:"I bring the fallen ally back to life!" Player 4:"I power attack the foe into strawberry malt!" The Bard: "I launch forth into a stirring refrain of mighty heroes and fiendish foes---oh you mean the game effect? You fight at +2" If your DM allows for non-core material the Bard definitely gets a power-up. Inspirational Boost adds 1 to your Inspire Courage ability, your bread and butter. Versatile Performer feat adds flexibility to your performance and an effective boost for your Perform based save DCs. Words of Creation from Complete Divine also stacks. And then there's the Eberron stuff. With the right build you can make the party fight at +7 (or more) but the time you hit level 10 or so. The fighters can power attack to their heart's delight. Your party will be making their saves a lot more often. I'm curious. I want to make a bard-like character. The aspects I like are a) general likeability, b) party buffer and c) party 'face'. Wouldn't this be better achieved by a sorcerer? a) Liked by who? b) Overlapped by spells. c) Any class with a decent cha and diplomacy skill can do this. Is diplomacy a big factor in your campaign?
Roland the Crownbreaker 10-23-06, 06:28 PM	I am presently playing bard myself. My advice is.......... One: Max out UMD. This is one of your most important skills, second only to perform. This way, when you face those pesky undead that can't be enchanted or hurt by your rapier, you can always whip out that wand you keep for such emergencies. Two: Skill Synergies. Get to know what they are. Use them. Love them. Having such an insane skill list means you can max very little if you plan to know alot. Those little +2 bonuses are your friends. Three: If the Complete Mage is allowed, take the Melodic Casting feat. It gives two huge things to a bard. First, it allows you to cast spells or activate magic items while maintaining a song. No more dropping the effect because someone needs a spot heal. Second, it allows you to use the perform skill in place of concentration. Besides the obvious fact that this increases your chances of making that check, it also frees up the ranks you would have spent in that skill. And let's face it, to be useful, concentration has to be maxed. Four: While this is just my opinion, don't look at any of the prestige classes. They all take away something that you will need in exchange for something that doesn't compare with what you just lost. (Although the Sublime Chord gives a great deal, in the end I feel it is just a second rate sorcerer)
krossbow 10-23-06, 10:20 PM	Get ironskin chant and arcane strike with a whip dagger. You'll be amazed at what an incredible tank you've suddenly become. Seriously, nova-fricking-city.
angryman 10-23-06, 10:40 PM	Sounds kinda cool. I'm kind of the opinion that the bard is a little underpowered. They seem like a "second tier" class, behind the "holy trinity" (druid, cleric & wizard) and similar in power to monk and barbarian but ahead of fighters. I was thinking more of a Skald-type bard, so maybe even a barbarian level or two, but then I can't rage and sing, can I?
EberronMoses 10-23-06, 11:01 PM	Sure u can, They'll call it ye old heavy metal. Just find an evoker/architect to help u build the worlds first electric guitar and amp and imagine how popular u'll be in the local tavern.
AZNsupermarket 10-23-06, 11:54 PM	Three: If the Complete Mage is allowed, take the Melodic Casting feat. It gives two huge things to a bard. First, it allows you to cast spells or activate magic items while maintaining a song. No more dropping the effect because someone needs a spot heal. Second, it allows you to use the perform skill in place of concentration. Besides the obvious fact that this increases your chances of making that check, it also frees up the ranks you would have spent in that skill. And let's face it, to be useful, concentration has to be maxed. You just made me want to buy Complete Mage :D
Comfort_in_Insanity 10-23-06, 11:58 PM	Sounds kinda cool. I'm kind of the opinion that the bard is a little underpowered. They seem like a "second tier" class, behind the "holy trinity" (druid, cleric & wizard) and similar in power to monk and barbarian but ahead of fighters. I was thinking more of a Skald-type bard, so maybe even a barbarian level or two, but then I can't rage and sing, can I? There's a savage bard variant in Unearthed Arcana, I believe. I forget what this does, though >_>
Becks 10-24-06, 04:24 PM	Three: If the Complete Mage is allowed, take the Melodic Casting feat. It gives two huge things to a bard. First, it allows you to cast spells or activate magic items while maintaining a song. No more dropping the effect because someone needs a spot heal. Second, it allows you to use the perform skill in place of concentration. Besides the obvious fact that this increases your chances of making that check, it also frees up the ranks you would have spent in that skill. And let's face it, to be useful, concentration has to be maxed. I don't have this book and I'm realy interesting in get this feat. Could you plese give the original text (pre requisites, benefit and so on) of this?
Becks 10-24-06, 04:28 PM	There's a savage bard variant in Unearthed Arcana, I believe. I forget what this does, though >_> I think it gives more wild skill. But there one thing that sucks: You can't read or write. I'm not sure if it troubles you with speak language skill, but I dislIke the changes you'll have.
Becks 10-24-06, 04:36 PM	Four: While this is just my opinion, don't look at any of the prestige classes. They all take away something that you will need in exchange for something that doesn't compare with what you just lost. (Although the Sublime Chord gives a great deal, in the end I feel it is just a second rate sorcerer) Unfortunly I have to agree with you, there is no such a good prestige for bard (I don't know complete mage already,but still). I looked in all my books (a DVD of those) and can't find a one that a like that much. Finally a make a Fochlucan Lyrist (not sure if it's writen right), not because it's powerfull or because it's fun and mach with my character storyline: A human bard from rashemen who will marry a hatran one day (wich is from my group).
The_Shaman 10-24-06, 06:24 PM	How about the harper PrCs? They are basically made for bards, and most tend to extend your normal stuff and give a few bonuses besides.
Arcane Guyver 10-24-06, 06:38 PM	My only suggestions - try to pick spells known that are bard-only, and keep an eye out for feats that expand your bardic music ability. Eberron gives a few neat options for bards (specifically the ability to take certain bardic feats rather than the prechosen bardic abilities at 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, and 18th levels).
SageBahamut 10-24-06, 07:32 PM	I do love Bards. They are indeed a great 5th character, party face, and all that. I will throw my weight behind almost everything that has been said so far. Almost. I disagree on one very important issue. I do believe there is one prestige class for which a Bard can qualify that even (gasp!) justifies the lost caster level. Warweaver. You lose 1 level of spellcasting and 5 levels of Bardic Knowledge (whoop-de-doo) to get Eldritch Tapestry (read: target your CHA mod in people as one creature with any Harmless spell), and at fourth level extend the range of your spells from Touch to Short, Short to Medium, Medium to Long. And four out of five levels are +1 Spellcasting Class spells. AND you get Quiescent Weaving... which is tasty enough for me to make you wait to see what it does. All for the low low price of 8 ranks in Craft (Weaving) and Enlarge Spell. And yes, stick to Bard-only spells. And party buffs. Because then your Cleric can focus on laying the righteous smack down left right and center while you make everyone else Uber. All at once.
Becks 10-25-06, 03:53 PM	I do love Bards. They are indeed a great 5th character, party face, and all that. I will throw my weight behind almost everything that has been said so far. Almost. I disagree on one very important issue. I do believe there is one prestige class for which a Bard can qualify that even (gasp!) justifies the lost caster level. Warweaver. You lose 1 level of spellcasting and 5 levels of Bardic Knowledge (whoop-de-doo) to get Eldritch Tapestry (read: target your CHA mod in people as one creature with any Harmless spell), and at fourth level extend the range of your spells from Touch to Short, Short to Medium, Medium to Long. And four out of five levels are +1 Spellcasting Class spells. AND you get Quiescent Weaving... which is tasty enough for me to make you wait to see what it does. All for the low low price of 8 ranks in Craft (Weaving) and Enlarge Spell. And yes, stick to Bard-only spells. And party buffs. Because then your Cleric can focus on laying the righteous smack down left right and center while you make everyone else Uber. All at once. The larger range for your spells looks nice, where I can find it?
krossbow 10-25-06, 04:00 PM	Bards are one of the most useful classes that other PC's are prone to dismiss Seriously, in a 5 man party, he's a juggernaut of buffing.
Becks 10-25-06, 04:09 PM	Once a read that druid cohort make a interesting combination with a bard of inspire corage. Does the Fochlucan Lyrist is similar to this?
Becks 10-25-06, 04:11 PM	To make it better I was wandering about Melodic Casting (this way you don't need to stop your inspire corage to conjurate your nature allies
Becks 10-25-06, 04:13 PM	Important question: the instrument of the wind (to conjure a large air elemental), how long the air elemental is activeted? My DM is pressuring me for that.