Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Osubaker 08-06-06, 01:04 PM	Having just begun jujitsu I got to thinking about trying to recreate it in dnd. I just started on this so any feed back or ideas are welcome. For now jujitsu master caps at lvl 10, Ive started creating the last 10 lvls but I need to think of some more skills to add in. The jujitsu master excels in unarmed combat versus humanoids, but is not very effective against other monster types. (ie. Its very hard to grapple and break a dragon's leg) Jujitsu master only recieves his bonus to grapple against humanoids. 1d8 HD Proficient with simple weapons No armor proficiencies (loses grapple skills while wearing medium or heavy armor) Primary attributes: Dexterity and Wisdom - increase effectiveness of grapple moves Secondary attributes: Str important for melee dmg, Constitution allows jujitsu master to last longer in melee combat, Inteligence gives master access to more skill points Saves: Fortitude - Low, Reflex - High, Will - Low 3/4 BAB Progression LVL 1 - 0 BAB, +1 bonus grapple skill check vs humanoids, 1d4 unarmed dmg LVL 2 - 1 BAB, +3 bonus to grapple vs humanoids, Grapple skill - Throw* LVL 3 - 2 BAB, +4 bonus to grapple vs humanoids, Gains FEAT Escape Artist LVL 4 - 3 BAB, +5 bonus to grapple vs humanoids, 1d6 unarmed dmg, Grapple Skill - Arm Bar*, LVL 5 - 3 BAB, +7 bonus to grapple vs humanoids, Grapple skill - Ground and Pound* LVL 6 - 4 BAB, +8 bonus to grapple vs humanoids, Gains FEAT Disarm LVL 7 - 5 BAB, +9 bonus to grapple vs humanoids, Grapple skill - Choke* LVL 8 - 6 BAB, +11 bonus to grapple vs humanoids, 1d8 unarmed dmg LVL 9 - 6 BAB, +12 bonus to grapple vs humanoids, Gains FEAT Improved Disarm LVL 10 - 7 BAB, +13 bonus to grapple vs humanoids, Grapple skill - Triangle* LVL 11 - 8 BAB, +14 bonus to grapple vs humanoids LVL 12 - 9 BAB, +15 bonus to grapple vs humanoids, 1d10 unarmed dmg LVL 13 - 9 BAB, +16 bonus to grapple vs humanoids, Stance - Counter Throw* LVL 14 - 10 BAB, +18 bonus to grapple vs humanoids LVL 15 - 11 BAB, +19 bonus to grapple vs humanoids, Grapple skill - Neck Snap* LVL 16 - 12 BAB, +20 bonus to grapple vs humanoids, 2d6 unarmed dmg LVL 17 - 12 BAB, +22 bonus to grapple vs humanoids LVL 18 - 13 BAB, +23 bonus to grapple vs humanoids LVL 19 - 14 BAB, +24 bonus to grapple vs humanoids LVL 20 - 15 BAB, +25 bonus to grapple vs humanoids, 2d8 unarmed dmg **WORK IN PROGRESS- NEEDS MORE SKILLS** SKILL DESCRIPTIONS* THROW - while grappled can attempt to throw and render target prone for 1d4 dmg + stunned for 1 round, dmg increases to 1d6 at lvl 5, 1d8 at lvl 8, and 1d10 at lvl 12, 2d6 at 16, and 2d8 at 20 (check - dexterity vs enemy balance stat) ARM BAR - while grappled can attempt to break apponents arm causing 1d6 dmg + 1d4 str permanent str dmg until healed, dmg increases to 1d8 dmg/1d6 str dmg at lvl 8, 1d10 dmg/1d6 str dmg at lvl 12, 2d6/1d8 str dmg at lvl 16, and 2d8 dmg/1d10 str dmg at lvl 20 (check - dexterity and wisdowm vs enemy fortitude and escape stat) GROUND AND POUND - +2 melee dmg while grappled and target is prone, dmg increases +1 every 2 lvls after, ie +9 dmg at lvl 19 (normal BAB applies) CHOKE - while grappled can attempt to choke apponent causing uncounciousness for 1d4 rounds, increases to 1d6 at lvl 12, and 1d8 at 18 (check - strength vs enemy concentration) TRIANGLE - while grappled can attempt to put apponent into a triangle causing 1 constitution dmg and 1d8 dmg each round in triangle, enemy is alowed apposed check each round, increases to 1d10 dmg at lvl 12, 2d6 dmg and 1d4 consititution dmg at 15, and 2d8 dmg and 1d6 consitution dmg at lvl 20 (check - dexterity and wisdom vs enemy dexterity and escape stat COUNTER THROW - For a -7 attack penalty the Jujitsu Master can adopt the defensive throw stance. Anytime a enemy the Jujitsu Master is currently facing misses with an attack a counter throw is automatically attempted (check - dexterity vs balance) resulting in 2d6 dmg and stunned for 1 round NECK SNAP - while grappled can attempt to snap apponents neck causing death (check - enemy gets fortitude save against death)
Cesuke 08-06-06, 02:39 PM	Well man i think the BAB could be, but +30 grapple at level 10 is too much because you just make a touch attack and then vs rolls the higher win!! so you always win and stunning without save is out of the complain of the system, you can do "infinite combos" that will killl your game or ability damage 1d4 str without save it is out of the system man. I think you can grapple whatever including dragons (of course if you win the check) but it can't be two size categories larger than you, for this i think you can create a class feature that allows to grapple bigger foes and has grapple feats for free like a jujitsu master you not only grapple("improved grapple", you forgot this, clever wrestling),you can trip (improved trip,cunning side step) and remember this "close quarters fighting" this is the only way to defend against your class, characters without this feat are vulnerable to you a lot. And dont try to make your sport as powerful in the game i am a Kung-Fu fighter and look at the monk :confused: . PD: Sorry for my bad english !! :embarrass
DEMONisbest 08-06-06, 02:49 PM	hmm, id say the 1/2 BAB is too low and the grapple bonuses are extremly high and why did u make it only 10 lvls class when you say its a base class?
benstundze 08-06-06, 03:07 PM	ok id say this would be mostly balanced if it were all movers to a lvl 20 progression what about the save? and finally remove the bonus feats and this is a collish class
silvergamgee 08-06-06, 03:18 PM	I played around with a Judo Master Class for a while, I could never make it work as well as I wished. I wound up just sticking with a monk that had improved grapple. Perhaps a feat, Arm Bar, you can break the arm causing your 1d6 damage + 1d4 ability damage against a fort save of 10 + 1/2 your class level + Wisdom Mod (since an arm bar is more about being in the right position with the right angle than raw strength). Blood Chokes are a tricky issue since once you lock in, a person is likely to pass out in the first 4 or 5 seconds. It is very difficult to translate into game terms. I'll think on it and post back if I figure anything. I think a throw feat might also be good. If you win your opposed grapple check, you can perform a throw as a free action. The throw causes 1d6 damage + your wis or str mod and causes your foe to fall prone. They must make a fort save of 10 + 1/2 your class level + str or wiz or be stunned for one round from the impact. Then you can turn your monk into a JuJitsu Master.
Osubaker 08-06-06, 03:25 PM	thanks for the replys there is a save vs each of the grapple moves, i just wasnt sure what to make it yet' need help on what to make each individual save, i want the more powerful moves to have easier saves for the enemy to make and based at least somewhat on dexterity and/or wisdom :edited first post on Jujitsu master, starting to make progression to lvl 20 need to think of more skills though:
benstundze 08-06-06, 03:36 PM	if you won’t i can make you a lvl 20 chart? otherwise this class is way overpowerd as for the chart type [code] on the top of the chart
benstundze 08-06-06, 04:23 PM	make the bonuses to grapple there level ie 1=1 14=14 and now its front loaded move the abilities down a bit like the fighter progression as for the saves i think this is ref and fort not will and [/code] at the bottom of the chart
benstundze 08-06-06, 04:35 PM	CHOKE - while grappled can attempt to choke apponent causing uncounciousness for 1d4 rounds, increases to 1d6 at lvl 10, and 1d8 at lvl 15, and 1d10 at lvl 20 (check - strength vs enemy concentration) just make this 1d8 at lvl 16 an take out all the others (lvl 10, and 20) let them grapple other monsters besides humanoids (after all a gnome can all ways grapple a purple worm with a 20) and bump the bab to 3/4
benstundze 08-06-06, 04:57 PM	ok minus the bonus feat
Osubaker 08-06-06, 05:03 PM	No bonus feats at all? I dont want all jujitsu master's to be cookie cutter, there has to be some variation allowing the pc to pick some of thier own feats PS cant get the [/code] to work
DEMONisbest 08-06-06, 05:19 PM	id give a lilttle less bonus feats, but let the PC choose from two everytime they get to get a bonus feat (like monk)
DEMONisbest 08-06-06, 08:45 PM	one more thing...what about a grapple bonus against humanoids and medum and smaller sized creatures with discernible anatomies? and id give them opportunity to choose whether to take a bonus feat (id give them at lvl 1, 4, 8, 12, 16, 20) or wheter to raise their damage for arm-bar and duration of choke unconsciousness - i wouldnt make them raise naturally by lvls bonus feats available at lvl 1 would be improved trip/disarm and at lvl 4 disarm/improved disarm rest of the feats (8-20) could be any he has prequisites for OR the choke/arm-bar boost but then again...its your character, so feel free to ignore this whole post :-)
benstundze 08-06-06, 08:48 PM	put [code] at the top
UnknownMourner 08-07-06, 05:30 AM	You should do it as a monk variant. They could swap some of the mystical abilities for improved pinning and reversals, crippling attacks that do Dex damage, etc. I wouldnt create a whole class for it. Core classes should be lifestyles, not fighing techniques.
HaikenEdge 08-07-06, 09:00 AM	I'm assuming this is for brazilian jujutsu? Most of the abilties are covered by the Reaping Mauler, from choking somebody out to straight up killing them. Anyways, ground and pound should only apply to prone opponents. Most of the mechanics you're introducing should state somewhere that they render its target prone. Triangle seems a bit powerful at high levels; 5 Constitution damage simply for winning a grapple check will kill most opponents in a few short rounds, especially when you have a high grapple check modifier. Essentially, triangle is even better than neck break; just use it 4 times, and that's 20 Con damage right up, no save.
benstundze 08-07-06, 01:14 PM	they can brake the grapple
benstundze 08-07-06, 06:41 PM	LVL 1 - 0 BAB, +1 bonus grapple skill check vs humanoids, 1d4 unarmed dmg LVL 2 - 1 BAB, +3 bonus to grapple vs humanoids, Grapple skill - Throw* LVL 3 - 2 BAB, +4 bonus to grapple vs humanoids, Gains FEAT Escape Artist LVL 4 - 3 BAB, +5 bonus to grapple vs humanoids, 1d6 unarmed dmg, Grapple Skill - Arm Bar*, LVL 5 - 3 BAB, +7 bonus to grapple vs humanoids, Grapple skill - Ground and Pound*, BONUS FEAT LVL 6 - 4 BAB, +8 bonus to grapple vs humanoids, Gains FEAT Disarm LVL 7 - 5 BAB, +9 bonus to grapple vs humanoids, Grapple skill - Choke* LVL 8 - 6 BAB, +11 bonus to grapple vs humanoids, 1d8 unarmed dmg LVL 9 - 6 BAB, +12 bonus to grapple vs humanoids, Gains FEAT Improved Disarm LVL 10 - 7 BAB, +14 bonus to grapple vs humanoids, Grapple skill - Triangle* LVL 11 - 8 BAB, +15 bonus to grapple vs humanoids, BONUS FEAT LVL 12 - 9 BAB, +16 bonus to grapple vs humanoids, 1d10 unarmed dmg LVL 13 - 9 BAB, +18 bonus to grapple vs humanoids, Stance - Counter Throw* LVL 14 - 10 BAB, +19 bonus to grapple vs humanoids LVL 15 - 11 BAB, +20 bonus to grapple vs humanoids, Grapple skill - Neck Snap* LVL 16 - 12 BAB, +21 bonus to grapple vs humanoids, 2d6 unarmed dmg LVL 17 - 12 BAB, +23 bonus to grapple vs humanoids, BONUS FEAT LVL 18 - 13 BAB, +24 bonus to grapple vs humanoids LVL 19 - 14 BAB, +25 bonus to grapple vs humanoids LVL 20 - 15 BAB, +27 bonus to grapple vs humanoids, 2d8 unarmed dmg make this (bonus to grapple vs humanoids) into (bonus to grapple) this and make them have all there brake bone abilities useless if its not a humanoid finally remove bonus feats and then this class looks good but the bonus should go down :D :P