Post/Author/DateTime	Post
demi d20 09-29-05, 02:18 PM	Here is a class I created for a game I DM, hope you like it! Let me know what you think. It has been playtested quite thoroughly, and is NOT meant to replace the sorceror, but to be another option. The Innatoth "Until you live magic, feel magic, breathe magic, ARE magic, you cannot truly love or understand it. Unfortunately, you were born flawed." -A haughty innatoth to a traveling wizard. http://www.jaestudio.com/Adept.jpg Called Innatoth (or Innate One) by the ancient Netherese of Faerun, they were mistakenly thought little different from a sorceror. In fact, the innatoth goes back to the very dawn of the planes, when magic first sparked in the minds of mortals. Innatoth are born, not trained, when arcane forces coil just so around a mortal soul. For this reason, the innatoth of today is little changed from that of millenia past. While most still see little difference between a sorceror and the more ancient innatoth, the instability of the magical weave in recent times has increased the birthrate of more innatoth than ever before, which may remedy that matter. Ranging the gamut from happy-go-lucky to disdainful of other arcanists, most innatoth still set out at a young age to see the world and its magical wonders. Often they spend time as soldiers or mercenaries, as well as adventurers. Game Rule Information Innatoth have the following game statistics. Abilities: Charisma determines how hard her spells are to resist & her maximum spell level, while Intelligence determines her bonus spell points. Dexterity and Constitution both contribute to the innatoth's long-term survival. Alignment: Any. Hit Dice: d6. Starting Gold: 2d4 x 10 gp. Starting Age: As sorceror Class Skills The innatoth’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int). Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier. BAB Fort Ref Will Abilities 1. +0 +0 +0 +2 Gem Mastery, Life Bolt 2. +1 +0 +0 +3 Wanderer's Lore, Weave Trick 3. +2 +1 +1 +3 Mettle of Will 4. +3 +1 +1 +4 Item Familiar, Ageless 5. +3 +1 +1 +4 Eschew Materials 6. +4 +2 +2 +5 Innatoth Spell I 7. +5 +2 +2 +5 Memory Weave 1/Day 8. +6/+1 +2 +2 +6 Gem Mastery 9. +6/+1 +3 +3 +6 Innatoth Spell II 10.+7/+2 +3 +3 +7 Greater Eschew Materials 11.+8/+3 +3 +3 +7 Gem Mastery 12.+9/+4 +4 +4 +8 Innatoth Spell III 13.+9/+4 +4 +4 +8 Memory Weave 2/Day 14.+10/+5 +4 +4 +9 Spell Switch 15.+11/+6/+1 +5 +5 +9 Innatoth Spell IV, Superior Eschew Materials 16.+12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +10 17.+12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +10 Gem Mastery 18.+13/+8/+3 +6 +6 +11 Innatoth Spell V 19.+14/+9/+4 +6 +6 +11 Memory Weave 3/Day 20.+15/+10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Ignore Material Components Spellcasting Cantrips Known Spells Known Max Spell Level Spell Pts./Day 1. 4 1 1st 2 2. 4 2 1st 6 3. 5 3 2nd 11 4. 5 4 2nd 17 5. 6 6 3rd 25 6. 6 7 3rd 35 7. 7 8 4th 46 8. 7 9 4th 58 9. 8 10 5th 72 10. 8 11 5th 88 11. 9 13 6th 106 12. 9 14 6th 126 13. 9 16 7th 147 14. 9 17 7th 170 15. 9 19 8th 195 16. 9 20 8th 221 17. 9 22 9th 250 18. 9 24 9th 280 19. 9 25 9th 311 20. 9 27 9th 343 Class Features Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Innatoths are proficient with the dagger, quarterstaff and, because there magic comes naturally and they have more time to pick up odd things, one medium-sized martial weapon of their choice. They are proficient with bucklers and dastana, but armor of any other type interferes with their movements, which can cause her spells with somatic components to fail. Spells: An innatoth casts arcane spells which are drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time, the way a wizard or a cleric must (see below). An innatoth uses his Charisma score for spell Saving Throw DC's, and his Intelligence score for bonus spells. To learn or cast a spell, an innatoth must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against an innatoth’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the innatoth’s Charisma modifier. An Innatoths ability to cast spells is limited by the spell points he has available. His base daily allotment of spell points is given on Table: The Innatoth. In addition, he receives bonus spell points per day if he has a high Intelligence score, using the formula (Intelligence Modifier X Caster Level X 1/2). An innatoth’s selection of spells is extremely limited. He begins play knowing four 0-level spells and one 1st-level spell of your choice. At each new level, he gains one or more new spells, as indicated on the table. (Unlike spell points, the number of spells an innatoth knows is not affected by his Intelligence score; the numbers on the table are fixed.) These new spells can be common spells chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, or they can be unusual spells that the innatoth has gained some understanding of by study, scrolls, research, or from Knowstones and Kiira. The innatoth can’t use this method of spell acquisition to learn spells at a faster rate, however. The innatoth's spells known are even more restricted than the sorceror, however. At 1st level, the innatoth chooses one prohibited school, from which he may never learn spells. He may still use magic items (including staffs and wands) using spells from a barred school. The innate ability of an innatoth causes them to disdain the paths "newer" practitioners of the Art use, especially scrolls. Whether through refusal or lack of training, an innatoth is utterly unable to create scrolls or cast spells from scrolls. He simply does not comprehend written magic fast enough to use a scroll while casting. As such, he may never gain the Scribe Scroll feat. He may still learn a spell from scrolls, so long as he is eligible to gain a new Spell Known. Unlike a wizard or a cleric, an innatoth need not prepare his spells in advance. He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has enough spell points in his spell point pool to pay for the spell. He does not have to decide ahead of time which spells he’ll cast. Unfortunately, this means any metamagic he applies to his spells increases the casting time to a full round, just as a sorceror. An innatoth may cast a number of cantrips for free each day equal to 3+CHA modifier, after which each costs one spell point. The cost of each higher level spell in points is based on the spells level. If casting a metamagic version, use the adjusted spell level to figure cost. An innatoth may not cast a metamagic spell (or any spell for that matter) of a level higher than the Maximum Spell Level known shown on the chart, however. To regain lost spell points, the innatoth must get 8 hours of restful sleep, and then meditate for 15 minutes to reawaken the magic coiled within himself. Any spells cast in the previous 8 hours count against the total points he may regain. Spell Level Spell Points Used 1 1 2 3 3 5 4 7 5 9 6 11 7 13 8 15 9 17 10 (Spell Levelx2)-1 Life Bolt (Su): An Innatoth may fire a crackling, blue and white line of his stored magic and life force to overcome his enemies, usually as a last ditch effort. Each day, he can use a number of damage dice equal to his class level. This is a pool of excess magic that his body filters out throughout the day. As a standard action, he may fire a line of energy up to 25 ft + 5 ft/2 Innatoth levels long and 5' wide, using any amount of damage dice up to his class level (which are then subtracted from the pool for the day). Each dice is a d6, and the Life Bolt is composed of pure eldritch energy. Spell Resistance is no protection from this, nor is energy resistance, but the target(s) may attempt a Reflex saving throw (DC 10+1/2 Innatoth level+INT mod) for half damage. As the Life Bolt is expelled by the Innatoth, he takes non-lethal damage equal to half the damage dealt by the bolt, as the magic coiled in him is forcefully ripped out, along with a piece of his lifeforce. He may attempt a Fortitude saving throw for half damage, with a DC equal to the Reflex save DC the target is allowed. Wanderer's Lore: As the Bardic Knowledge ability, but the special knowledge check is made with a bonus equal to half his innatoth level + Intelligence modifier. Innatoth's are known to wander extensively to learn different forms and methods of magic, and to seek strange magical phenomenon. In the course of their wanderings they often pick up relevant information about local notable people, legendary items, or noteworthy places. (If the innatoth has 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (history), he gains a +2 bonus on this check.) A successful knowledge check will not reveal the powers of a magic item but may give a hint as to its general function. An innatoth may not take 10 or take 20 on this check; this sort of knowledge is essentially random. Should an Innatoth take levels in Bard, Loremaster or some other class with a similar ability, the levels stack. For example, a Bard 5(who uses his full levels)/Innatoth 4(who uses 1/2 class levels) would have a check of 7+Intell Modifier. Weave Trick (Sp): Long nights by the campfire trying to stave of boredom, too many meals of tasteless mush, and desire to impress others all work towards developing one of an innatoths most useful (if least spectacular) powers. An innatoth may use Prestidigitation as a spell-like ability a number of times per day equal to his Charisma modifier (not including temporary increases such as spells and magic items), up to a maximum of half his class level. They often use this to entertain the soldiers and mercenaries they travel with, to spice up bland trail food, to impress the common folk (coupled with a good perform check it may get them a free night at the inn), or just to make life a little more comfortable. Gem Mastery: Innatoths recognize gems as the world's most ancient form of magical storage. Through study and a natural bent to the old ways, they gain some small advantage when using gems. At 1st level, they are able to use and create Knowstones, just like a sorceror. They may create Knowstones without the Craft Wonderous Item feat, though they must meet all other requirements. A Knowstones market price is (spell level squared × 1.000 gp), and take 24 hours of wearing before the new spell becomes available as a spell known. At 8th level, they gain Attune Gem as a bonus feat, whether or not they meet the requirements. They also may use and create Kiira as if they have elven blood. They must still have the appropriate item creation feat to make them, however. At 11th level, they may use and create Tel'Kiira as if they have elven blood. They must still have the appropriate item creation feat to make them, however. At 17th level, they may use and create Selu'Kiira as if they have elven blood. They must still have the appropriate item creation feat to make them, however. Mettle of Will (Ex): Whenever an Innatoth of 3rd level or higher is the target of a spell, spell-like or supernatural ability that allows a Will save for a lesser effect, the ability instead has no effect on a successful Will save. This ability is otherwise like evasion. Item Familiar: The constant flows of arcane energy swirling around the innatoth can cause strange effects on the items near him. He gains Item Familiar as a bonus feat. It is not uncommon to see such folk tramping across a field some mornings, argueing with his shirt about if it will rain or not. Ageless (Ex): The energy coiled inside him at all times has a preservative effect on the innatoth. A number of years equal to his current class level must pass before he ages one year. At this point, an innatoths eyes also begin to glow with a slight blueish-white tinge, barely noticeable in bright light. However, they gain a -2 penalty to Hide checks, as well as Disguise checks, as even people who do not know this about innatoths will notice and remember 'something odd' about him. Innatoth's disdain the crutches that newer practitioners use to cast their spells, instead casting more closely to how the dragons first discovered magic. Eschew Materials (Ex): Gain Eschew Materials as a bonus feat. You can cast any spell that has a material component costing 1 gp or less without needing that component. (The casting of the spell still provokes attacks of opportunity as normal.) If the spell requires a material component that costs more than 1 gp, you must have the material component at hand to cast the spell, just as normal. Greater Eschew Materials: (Ex): When casting a spell with a costly material component over 1 gp the innatoth may instead burn an amount of XP equal to 1/5th of the total price for the item in GP (minimum 1 experience point). In addition whenever an innatoth is casting a spell with a focus he may instead burn an amount of XP equal to the GP value of the focus or 100 XP if the focus has no clearly listed value, whichever is greater. If a spell already has an experience cost that must still be paid. Some spells cannot function without expensive material costs or foci (such as clone) and that cannot be ignored. DM discretion must be applied. Superior Eschew Materials (Ex): As Greater Eschew Materials, but you instead pay 1/25 the gold cost in experience (minimum 1 experience point) for material components, and 1/2 the gp value of a focus in experience. If a spell already has an experience cost that must still be paid. Some spells cannot function without expensive material costs or foci (such as clone) and that cannot be ignored. DM discretion must be applied. Ignore Material Components (Ex): Gain the epic feat Ignore Material Components as a bonus feat, despite not meeting the prerequisites. In addition whenever an innatoth is casting a spell with a focus having a listed cost, he may instead burn an amount of XP equal to 1/4 the GP value of the focus. If the focus has no clearly listed value it may be ignored with no cost, so long as it is not integral to the continuing operation of the spell. DM discretion must be applied. Innatoth Spell I (Sp): Constantly working the same spells for so long, and the pure magic of the weave that flows through an Innatoths body has worked wonderous changes to his spellcasting by this time. At 6th level, choose a single level 1 spell that you know. You may now use that spell as a spell-like ability 3/day, with the caster level equal to your caster level. One spell point is permanently 'used' to power this spell, and while it is still part of your spell points per day, may not be used for any purpose. You may choose to forget the spell chosen from your Spells Known, and learn another of that level. Innatoth Spell II (Sp): At 9th level, choose a single level 2 spell. This is exactly as Innatoth Spell I, but you must give up 3 spell points. Innatoth Spell III (Sp): At 12th level, choose a single level 3 spell. This is exactly as Innatoth Spell I, but you must give up 5 spell points. Innatoth Spell IV (Sp): At 15th level, choose a single level 4 spell. This is exactly as Innatoth Spell I, but you must give up 7 spell points. Innatoth Spell V (Sp): At 18th level, choose a single level 5 spell. This is exactly as Innatoth Spell I, but you must give up 9 spell points. Memory Weave (Ex): At 7th level, an innatoth has learned to recognize patterns in the warp and weft of the weave of magic which surrounds the world. He can use half remembered gestures and phrases, and a good feel for how magic flowed, to approximate the casting of a spell he does not know. The spell he attempts to cast must be one he has cast before, seen cast, or had cast on him, and it must be an arcane spell on the Sorceror/Wizards spell list. Casting such a spell has a casting time of a full round (like casting a metamagic spell) or the spells casting time, whichever is longer. After the casting time, he must make a successful Knowledge (arcana) check with a DC of 10 + (spell level x 2) to see cast the spell. Failure means there is no effect, while success means he casts the spell and uses up three times the spells level in spell points per day. Metamagic versions of the spell may not be cast. For example, Galdrik wants to cast a lighting bolt, a spell which he once had cast on him (to painful effect). He does not know the spell, so he uses Memory Weave. After a full round casting time, he makes a DC 16 Knowledge (Arc) check and passes. He successfully casts his lightning bolt spell and uses up 15 of his spell points for the day. The innatoth may use this once per day at 7th level, twice per day at 13th, and three times at 19th level. Spell Switch (Ex): An innatoth also learns to change his spells known, giving him a greater flexibility when adventuring or creating items, but not nearly the range of options of a wizard. A innatoth learns to tap the strength of his character to switch spells he does not need to know anymore with new ones he may have just found. Starting at 3rd level, the innatoth may meditate for 24 hours over a two-day span to lose a spell known (from any spell slot/level he can normally cast) and replace it with another. If the innatoth wishes to forego the meditation, he may lose a spell known (from any spell slot/level he can normally cast) and replace it with another after 10 days of normal activity. During this time, he has no access to the spell lost and no access to the spell he wishes to gain. He cannot use this process to add spells not normally found on his classes spell-list. After the appropriate time, he makes a Knowledge [arcana] check with a DC of 10 + (spell level x 2) to see if he can add it to his spells known. If he should fail at this check, he loses the ability to cast spells of that level for 1 day per spell level. After this time has passed, the sorcerer must take the time to meditate as described above and must make another appropriate knowledge check to fill the empty spell known slot. Once a spell has been successfully Switched, the character loses experience points equal to (spell level squared x 200), as he has to forcefully remove part of his life experience to make room for new. Multiclass Restriction: Innatoths are born, not trained. If the ability to be an innatoth does not manifest in adolescence, it never will. For this reason, you may only take the first level of innatoth as your first character level. Afterwards, you may multiclass freely.
Avihs 09-29-05, 02:57 PM	Looks interesting and promising... gonna have to look at it in a different font though, I'm haveing a hard time reading it. Eyes not what they use to be... :(
Nephlite 09-29-05, 03:21 PM	Here is a class I created for a game I DM, hope you like it! Let me know what you think. It has been playtested quite thoroughly, and is NOT meant to replace the sorceror, but to be another option. Decent class. I love how you balanced it to have Int and Charisma as important like Favored Soul. Is it just me or do you have almost same number of spell points as Psions have power points? Though I bet you don't have to augment (spend extra spell points) to raise the power of a spell like Fireball (base damage 5d6, since Caster at least 5, and +1d6/caster till 10d6). Class Features Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Innatoths are proficient with the dagger, quarterstaff and, because there magic comes naturally and they have more time to pick up odd things, one medium-sized martial or exotic weapon of their choice. They are proficient with bucklers and vambraces, but armor of any other type interferes with their movements, which can cause her spells with somatic components to fail. Did you make a mistake with "vambracers" or did you mispell bracers? Also 1 meduim martial or two would be fine, but an exotic is asking for a lot. Unlike a wizard or a cleric, a sorcerer need not prepare his spells in advance. He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has enough spell points in his spell point pool to pay for the spell. He does not have to decide ahead of time which spells he’ll cast. Unfortunately, this means any metamagic he applies to his spells increases the casting time to a full round, just as a sorceror. An innatoth may cast a number of cantrips for free each day equal to 3+CHA modifier, after which each costs one spell point. The cost of each higher level spell in points is based on the spells level. If casting a metamagic version, use the adjusted spell level to figure cost. An innatoth may not cast a metamagic spell (or any spell for that matter) of a level higher than the Maximum Spell Level known shown on the chart, however. You have a copy paste error, you wrote Sorceror. Life Bolt (Su): An Innatoth may fire a crackling, blue and white line of his stored magic and life force to overcome his enemies, usually as a last ditch effort. Each day, he can use a number of damage dice equal to his class level. This is a pool of excess magic that his body filters out throughout the day. As a standard action, he may fire a line of energy up to 25 ft + 5 ft/2 Innatoth levels long and 5' wide, using any amount of damage dice up to his class level (which are then subtracted from the pool for the day). Each dice is a d6, and the Life Bolt is half raw magic and half positive energy. Spell Resistance is no protection from this, but the target(s) may attempt a Reflex saving throw (DC 10+1/2 Innatoth level+INT mod) for half damage. As the Life Bolt is expelled by the Innatoth, he takes non-lethal damage equal to half the damage dealt by the bolt, as the magic coiled in him is forcefully ripped out, along with a piece of his lifeforce. He may attempt a Fortitude saving throw for half damage, with a DC equal to the Reflex save DC the target is allowed. Positive Energy heals living creatures and damages only undead. Is this only useful against undead or did you mean negative energy? Weave Trick (Sp): Long nights by the campfire trying to stave of boredom, too many meals of tasteless mush, and desire to impress others all work towards developing one of an innatoths most useful (if least spectacular) powers. An innatoth may use Prestidigitation as a spell-like ability a number of times per day equal to his Charisma modifier (not including temporary increases such as spells and magic items), up to a maximum of half his class level. They often use this to entertain the soldiers and mercenaries they travel with, to spice up bland trail food, to impress the common folk (coupled with a good perform check it may get them a free night at the inn), or just to make life a little more comfortable. I love this, very flavorful. Gem Mastery: Innatoths recognize gems as the world's most ancient form of magical storage. Through study and a natural bent to the old ways, they gain some small advantage when using gems. At 1st level, they are able to use and create Knowstones, just like a sorceror. They may create Knowstones without the Craft Wonderous Item feat, though they must meet all other requirements. A Knowstones market price is (spell level squared × 1.000 gp), and take 24 hours of wearing before the new spell becomes available as a spell known. Don't have the book with knowstones, but seems balanced. Item Familiar: The constant flows of arcane energy swirling around the innatoth can cause strange effects on the items near him. He gains Item Familiar as a bonus feat. It is not uncommon to see such folk tramping across a field some mornings, argueing with his shirt about if it will rain or not. Which book is this feat from? Innatoth's disdain the crutches that newer practitioners use to cast their spells, instead casting more closely to how the dragons first discovered magic. Eschew Materials (Ex): Gain Eschew Materials as a bonus feat. You can cast any spell that has a material component costing 1 gp or less without needing that component. (The casting of the spell still provokes attacks of opportunity as normal.) If the spell requires a material component that costs more than 1 gp, you must have the material component at hand to cast the spell, just as normal. Pure awesome, always thought it made sense for Sorceror since it comes from him, but your guy could use it too. Memory Weave (Ex): At 7th level, an innatoth has learned to recognize patterns in the warp and weft of the weave of magic which surrounds the world. He can use half remembered gestures and phrases, and a good feel for how magic flowed, to approximate the casting of a spell he does not know. The spell he attempts to cast must be one he has cast before, seen cast, or had cast on him, and it must be an arcane spell on the Sorceror/Wizards spell list. Casting such a spell has a casting time of a full round (like casting a metamagic spell) or the spells casting time, whichever is longer. After the casting time, he must make a successful Knowledge (arcana) check with a DC of 10 + (spell level x 2) to see cast the spell. Failure means there is no effect, while success means he casts the spell and uses up three times the spells level in spell points per day. Metamagic versions of the spell may not be cast. For example, Galdrik wants to cast a lighting bolt, a spell which he once had cast on him (to painful effect). He does not know the spell, so he uses Memory Weave. After a full round casting time, he makes a DC 16 Knowledge (Arc) check and passes. He successfully casts his lightning bolt spell and uses up 15 of his spell points for the day. The innatoth may use this once per day at 7th level, twice per day at 13th, and three times at 19th level. So sorta Blue Magic ability? Basically it seems balanced, I'm weary of all the spell points because I'm not sure if I understand the system, but it seems okay.
demi d20 09-29-05, 03:57 PM	Decent class. I love how you balanced it to have Int and Charisma as important like Favored Soul. Is it just me or do you have almost same number of spell points as Psions have power points? Though I bet you don't have to augment (spend extra spell points) to raise the power of a spell like Fireball (base damage 5d6, since Caster at least 5, and +1d6/caster till 10d6). Thanks! Yes, same number of points. Jaerom Darkwind swayed me in his argument on why if a spell is balanced at one cost, it doesn't need to cost more at a higher caster level. Anyway, I originally was going to have it spells per day, in which case it ends having 1 less spell per day per level than a sorceror. Did you make a mistake with "vambracers" or did you mispell bracers? Also 1 meduim martial or two would be fine, but an exotic is asking for a lot. Vambracers are detailed in the Arms & Equipment Guide, I think. Also, I think you are right on the exotic thing. Will edit. Positive Energy heals living creatures and damages only undead. Is this only useful against undead or did you mean negative energy? Should I change it to all raw magical energy? Or 1/2 fire, 1/2 magic? I love this, very flavorful. Thank you :blush: Don't have the book with knowstones, but seems balanced. A recent Dragon, in Class Acts Which book is this feat from? Unearthed Arcana, its OGC, so a Google search should find it somewhere.
demi d20 09-30-05, 12:53 PM	Anybody else have comments? Criticism? Balance issues? Any help would be appreciated. Like I said, we have been using this class for awhile with no problems, but obviously we can't cover all the bases.
Avihs 09-30-05, 02:16 PM	I like what you have put down here... Some of the questions that do come to mind are: 1) Why so much starting gold? It's not like they are a class that is so dependent on equipment, such as the fighter, paladin & ranger, who get the same ammount of cash at first level in order to get their much needed armor, weapons etc. 2)Wanderer's Lore... How does that interact with other classes that have similar abilities, such as a Bard's, Bardic Knolwedge? 3)Life Bolt... You could just treat it just the same as a warlock's Eldritch Blast, an untyped blast of eldritch/supernatural energy. How you have the ability written now, as a supernatural ability, by it's very nature it is not affected by SR, and without the Half&half component that it has now, it would make his "last ditch" attach that much more effective and resisted by by the mob who happens to be immune/resistant to what ever energy type you have attributed to half of it. 4) Spell progression & 9th level spells... you realized, that a player could have seven 9th level spells known at 20th level? 5) Limited spell casting in comparison to a sorcerer... not quite... even though he loses out on a school of magic, an Innatoth after all is said and done will have more spells available to him in any given day. Spells Known: 27 Innatoth Spell I -V: 5 more spells, albeit useable 3/day, and that the Innatoth opts to replace those 5 spells with totaly new ones. Afterall, if he choses his spells from this feature right, he'll most likely only need those SLA's 3/day.That brings us upto 32 spells known, compared to the sorcerer's 34. Add in the Spell Switch ability, that number of spells known the Innatoth could bring to bear... Priceless :D
Avihs 09-30-05, 02:26 PM	Oh yeah.... Vambracers from AaEG, were you meaning the Datsana? Which is an armored bracer that provides an armor bonus that stacks with certain light armors?
demi d20 10-03-05, 01:12 PM	I like what you have put down here... Some of the questions that do come to mind are: 1) Why so much starting gold? It's not like they are a class that is so dependent on equipment, such as the fighter, paladin & ranger, who get the same ammount of cash at first level in order to get their much needed armor, weapons etc. Well, I was working from the srd, and couldn't find starting gold. It should be as a sorceror, which is what, 2d4? 2)Wanderer's Lore... How does that interact with other classes that have similar abilities, such as a Bard's, Bardic Knolwedge? It would stack with any levels in bard, loremaster, etc. SO a bard 3, Innatoth 4 would have a check of 5+Intell mod. 3)Life Bolt... You could just treat it just the same as a warlock's Eldritch Blast, an untyped blast of eldritch/supernatural energy. How you have the ability written now, as a supernatural ability, by it's very nature it is not affected by SR, and without the Half&half component that it has now, it would make his "last ditch" attach that much more effective and resisted by by the mob who happens to be immune/resistant to what ever energy type you have attributed to half of it. Agreed, will change. Thanks Much!! 4) Spell progression & 9th level spells... you realized, that a player could have seven 9th level spells known at 20th level? 5) Limited spell casting in comparison to a sorcerer... not quite... even though he loses out on a school of magic, an Innatoth after all is said and done will have more spells available to him in any given day. That brings us upto 32 spells known, compared to the sorcerer's 34. Add in the Spell Switch ability, that number of spells known the Innatoth could bring to bear... Priceless :D[/QUOTE] And then they won't have as many of the low level utility spells, which are more often used (and cost less) than 9th level spells. It's a balance. An Innatoth has LESS spells known, and 1 less per spell level/day than a sorceror. Also keep in mind that it is spell SWITCH, as in he loses a spell known to gain a new one. And the XP cost means he won't want to do it all the time. He also needs this versatility, because he can't use scrolls AT ALL, which we all know makes the sorceror actually playable, with his low spells known (compared to a wizard). Thanks for your comments!
Avihs 10-03-05, 01:41 PM	Well, I was working from the srd, and couldn't find starting gold. It should be as a sorceror, which is what, 2d4? Sorcerers start with 3d4 at first level. And then they won't have as many of the low level utility spells, which are more often used (and cost less) than 9th level spells. It's a balance. An Innatoth has LESS spells known, and 1 less per spell level/day than a sorceror. Also keep in mind that it is spell SWITCH, as in he loses a spell known to gain a new one. And the XP cost means he won't want to do it all the time. He also needs this versatility, because he can't use scrolls AT ALL, which we all know makes the sorceror actually playable, with his low spells known (compared to a wizard). :doh: Did I say Switch? I meant Memory Weave. :D
demi d20 10-03-05, 02:08 PM	True, that does up their spells known significantly. However, they are also burning enough points to cast a spell of that level THREE times each time they use it. Versatile yes, but I don't think it's overpowering. :D I've tried hard to balance this class, both each ability to itself and the entire class as a whole. It is a tad better than the sorceror, but i think that class is somewhat weak. Anyone have comments on balance?
demi d20 10-05-05, 10:35 AM	Any comments on the class at all? Likes, dislikes? Anything would be helpful. Oh yeah, :bump:
Esponer 10-05-05, 11:17 AM	I like this class a lot, and it really seems like the "true sorcerer". I personally think it's fairly well balanced, although the wizard and sorcerer classes are, strangely, the classes I know least about (I generally know far more about psionics than arcane magic, oddly). That given, if the system you've used for spell points is identical to the psionic system for power points, I think it works out as actually granting more casting potential over one day than a wizard gets. I did some figures a while back for a psion and a wizard with equal stats, and the psion won out slightly (basically gave the wizard its own power points, 17 power points for each 9th level spell it could cast etc.) I still think the Innatoth's a good class though. I'm extremely tempted to play one sometime. The only concern I have about the class is that I'm slightly worried that an arcane caster with d6 hit dice and medium BaB might be able to multiclass in certain ways that could get scary, but as I said, arcane spellcasting isn't really my forté in general so I can't see any unreasonable builds myself. You know, this class might just get me into arcane casting.
demi d20 10-06-05, 04:45 PM	Thanks for your comments! Actually, it's supposed to cast more than a wizard. It is in fact midway between a wizards and sorceror in potential (designed that way on purpose). Kinda how a Battle sorceror from UA works. Anyone else?
SwiftFox 10-07-05, 01:45 AM	This seems very reminiscent of both the warlock and psion... I think its overpowered, quite frankly. It is clearly more powerful and versitile than both the sorceror and warlock class, especially thanks to the 'innatoth spell' class ability : you do realise that there are feats from the monster manual and complete arcane that allow you to apply metamagic effects to spell-like abilities, dont you? and you've just made it easier to exploit this than ANY other class or prestige class to date! Dont you understand that the existing spellcasting classes, like wizard, psion, cleric and druid are the most powerful of all classes already? they dont need to be powered-up and tricked-out even more! While I admire the effort you have obviously put into designing this class, the reek of cheese it gives off has forced me to dismiss it as yet another bad sword-and-sorcery-esque munchikin class.
demi d20 10-07-05, 08:08 AM	This seems very reminiscent of both the warlock and psion... I think its overpowered, quite frankly. It is clearly more powerful and versitile than both the sorceror and warlock class, especially thanks to the 'innatoth spell' class ability : you do realise that there are feats from the monster manual and complete arcane that allow you to apply metamagic effects to spell-like abilities, dont you? and you've just made it easier to exploit this than ANY other class or prestige class to date! Dont you understand that the existing spellcasting classes, like wizard, psion, cleric and druid are the most powerful of all classes already? they dont need to be powered-up and tricked-out even more! While I admire the effort you have obviously put into designing this class, the reek of cheese it gives off has forced me to dismiss it as yet another bad sword-and-sorcery-esque munchikin class. Thank you for your comments... Overpowered is NOT what I was going for, nor a "cheese" factor. But, since you have no suggestions to fix anything, I will leave it to others to post useful critiques.
SwiftFox 10-07-05, 08:26 AM	Thank you for your comments... Overpowered is NOT what I was going for, nor a "cheese" factor. But, since you have no suggestions to fix anything, I will leave it to others to post useful critiques.What you have designed is a class built on an entirely sepparate power-curve from the other core-classes. I suggest you fix it by re-designing it as a 10 level prestige class accessable from as early as 6-7th level, which might make it an attractive PrC for a sorcerer to advance in, however as-is, while it is your stated intention for it not to replace the sorcerer that is exactly what you would accomplish.
Thubby 10-07-05, 12:21 PM	i like it, seems a lil on the powerful end, though so are some base classes :D (\ /) (@@) (^^) BEHOLD THE ALL POWERFUL HIPNO BUNNY!!! YOU WILL OBEY HIM!!!
thasis 10-07-05, 02:33 PM	Kill picture dude! Awsome to the max! Where'd yah get it? Wherever you got I thank them in advance for making this post so colourful! Balance wise? Seems fine to me. Good job toir thein max!
Ghaede Emperor 10-07-05, 10:06 PM	It is an awesome picture, isn't it!!! it is by Jason Engle, I highly encourage you to check out ALL his work, to be found Here (http://www.jaestudio.com) . Really glad you liked the class!
demi d20 10-07-05, 10:08 PM	Woops, logged into my old account... that was me :blush: What you have designed is a class built on an entirely sepparate power-curve from the other core-classes. I suggest you fix it by re-designing it as a 10 level prestige class accessable from as early as 6-7th level, which might make it an attractive PrC for a sorcerer to advance in, however as-is, while it is your stated intention for it not to replace the sorcerer that is exactly what you would accomplish. I would like everyone to keep in mind some balancing factors inherent in this class... - Multiple Ability Dependancy (CHA and INT just for spells, not counting others for survival) - Cannot use scrolls - 1 Banned/Forbidden school (like specialist wizard) - Full round Metamagic (like sorceror) - Less total weapon prof. than sorceror - Less spells/day than sorceror - Way less spells known than sorc. - Lifebolt damages YOU when used - No familiar - Innatoth spells cause you to lose a spell slot/spell points for that level (means that one can't be doubled with a ring of wizardry, etc.) - Memory weave uses THREE slots of that level to cast one spell - no armor So no, in answer to a previous post, this isn't a sword and spells class. With D6 hitdice, he won't survive long 'in the grind'. And in answer to this quote, I didn't want to create a PRC, I wanted a base class that was fun to play FROM 1ST LEVEL, and that would make people think twice before PRC'ing out of it (where as a sorceror, it's a foregone conclusion). So if anyone else thinks it's overpowered, I welcome suggestions to fix it. But I'm leaving it as a base class, because the flavor and fun factor works better for me there.
demi d20 10-12-05, 03:32 PM	:bump:
Vadin 10-14-05, 04:16 PM	So..wait..whats an item familiar?