Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kurikin 07-24-06, 12:18 AM	SHADOW ASSASSIN http://uk.games-workshop.com/darkelves/artwork/images/assassin-big.jpg Image taken from http://uk.games-workshop.com I was talking to him then out of nowhere a shadow, without a person, apeared and killed Regdar! Shadow Assassins are masters of stealth and deception. They harness the power of Shadows to aid them in thier exploits. As they become more powerful they become more and more like a Shadow, even gaining the ability to assume the form of a Shadow for short periods of time and controling Shadows to do thier bidding. MAKING A SHADOW ASSASSIN When creating a Shadow Assassin prepare for being stealthy, as that is your main way of doing damage and most of your skills involve stealth. Abilities: Dexterity provides extra protection for the lightly armored Shadow Assassin. Dexterity, Intelligence and Wisdom are important for most of his skills. Races: Any race has the capacity to become a silent killing machine. Alignment: Any Starting Gold: 5d4 x 10 (125) Starting Age: Same as Rogue Class Skills The Shadow Assassin’s class skills are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Disable Device (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha) and Use Rope (Dex). Skills Per Day at 1st Level : (6 + int)x4 Skills Per Day at Each Additional Level : 6 + int Hit Dice: d6 BAB Fort Ref Will Abilities 1. +0 +0 +2 +0 Sure Footed, Sneak Attack +1d6 2. +1 +0 +3 +0 Essence of Shadow 3. +2 +1 +3 +1 Sneak Attack +2d6, Poison Use 4. +3 +1 +4 +1 Shadow's Grace +1, Shadow Form 1/day 5. +3 +1 +4 +1 Move Like a Shadow, Sneak Attack +3d6 6. +4 +2 +5 +2 - 7. +5 +2 +5 +2 Sneak Attack +4d6 8. +6 +2 +6 +2 Hide in Plain Sight, Shadow's Grace +2, Shadow Form 2/day 9. +6 +3 +6 +3 Sneak Attack +5d6, Improved Poison Use 10.+7 +3 +7 +3 - 11.+8 +3 +7 +3 Undetectable, Sneak Attack +6d6, Shadow Form 3/day 12.+9 +4 +8 +4 Shadow's Grace +3 13.+9 +4 +8 +4 Sneak Attack +7d6 14.+10 +4 +9 +4 Scentless 15.+11 +5 +9 +5 Sneak Attack +8d6, Shadow Form 4/day 16.+12 +5 +10 +5 Shadow's Grace +4 17.+12 +5 +10 +5 Shadow Strikes, Sneak Attack +9d6 18.+13 +6 +11 +6 Improved Shadow Form 19.+14 +6 +11 +6 Sneak Attack +10d6, Shadow Form 5/day 20.+15 +6 +12 +6 Shadow Perfection, Shadow’s Grace +5 Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Shadow Assassin is proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, rapier, sap, Shortbow (and composite) and short sword. Shadow Assassins are not proficient with any armor or shields. Sneak Attack: At 1st level, a Shadow Assassin gains sneak attack +1d6. This bonus increases by +1d6 at every odd level. Same as in Player’s Handbook. Sure Footed: At 1st level, a Shadow Assassin is no longer affected by non-magical movement impairing effects, such as brought on by the terrain. This ability may only be used while not wearing any armor. Essence of Shadow: At 2nd level, a Shadow Assassin gains a deflection bonus to his armor class equal to his Cha modifier or 1, whichever is highest. Also he gains a (5/2 levels)% miss chance from concealment.This ability may only be used while not wearing any armor. Poison Use: At 3rd level, a Shadow Assassin never risks accidentally poisoning himself while applying poison to a weapon. Shadow’s Grace: At 4th level, a Shadow Assassin gains a +1 bonus to Balance, Climb, Hide, Jump, Move Silently and Hide checks. This bonus increases by 1 every 4th level. This ability may only be used while not wearing any armor. Shadow Form: At 5th level, a Shadow Assassin can assume Shadow Form a certain number of times per day. While in this form a Shadow Assassin gains the Incorporeal subtype. All physical damage attacks instead deal 1d4 Strength damage. Every 5 levels this damage increases by an additional 1d4. . If a target’s Strength is brought to 0 they die. In 1d4 rounds they come back as a Shadow if they have 8 or fewer HD or if they have 9 or more HD they as a Greater Shadow. All Shadows created in this way are under your control. You may not control more total HD worth of Shadows than your Shadow Assassin class level. Any new Shadow created that would exceed your limit is not under your control. You may release any Shadow from your control at any time. Shadows under your control cannot make minions of their own. Shadow Form lasts a number of rounds equal to 3 + the shadow mage's Dex modifier (minimum 3 rounds). When Shadow Form ends, he becomes sickened for the rest of the encounter. Move like a Shadow: At 5th level, a Shadow Assassin no longer leaves any tracks. This ability may only be used while not wearing any armor. Hide in Plain Sight: At 8th level, a Shadow Assassin can hide even while being observed. As long as he is within 10ft of some sort of shadow, a Shadow Assassin can hide himself from view in the open without actually having anything to hide behind. He cannot, however, hide in his own shadow. This ability may only be used while not wearing any armor. Improved Poison Use: At 9th level, a Shadow Assassin can apply poison to a weapon as a move action. Undetectable: At 11th level, a Shadow Assassin gains a special resistance to the Divination subschool. To affect a Shadow Assassin with such a spell, the caster must make a caster level check (DC 10 + the Shadow Assassin’s class level) or the Shadow Assassin is affected. A Shadow Assassin may willingly forgo this resistance. Scentless: At 14th level, a Shadow Assassin no longer has a scent. Shadow Strikes: At 17th level, a Shadow Assassin’s attacks negate the bonuses provided by natural armor, armor and shields, but deflection bonuses and force effects work as normal. Improved Shadow Form: At 18th level, a Shadow Assassin is no longer sickened when he leaves Shadow Form. Shadow Perfection: At 20th level, a Shadow Assassin has mastered the ways of the Shadow. He is forevermore treated as an outsider (an extraplanar creature), native to the plane of shadows, rather than as a humanoid for the purposes of spells and magical effects. Unlike other outsiders, the shadow mage can still be brought back from the dead as if he were a member of his previous creature type. Also he gains the Incorporeal subtype and loses the benefits of Sure Footed, Move like a Shadow, Scentless, Essence of Shadow and Shadow Strikes. His attacks only deal Strength damage when he uses Shadow Form. PLAYING A SHADOW ASSASSIN Brief description on how to play the class you are designing. Religion: A brief description of the different religions that the class commonly follows. It's best to state your sources if you are using non-core gods. Other Classes: Shadow Assassins work well with other classes that don't comprimise thier own abilities. Combat: Sneak up and benefit from the extra Sneak Attack damage or turn your foes into minions while in Shadow Form Advancement: Probably the class with the least amount of options. They just get better and better at what they do best, killing and stealth. SHADOW ASSASSINS IN THE WORLD I was talking to him then out of nowhere a shadow, without a person, apeared and killed Regdar! A hired assassin, spy, informant, or just because he wants to, he will go anywhere undetected and get out without anybody the wiser. Daily Life: This to come later Notables: This to come later Organizations: This to come later NPC Reaction Shadow Assassins are so good at what they do, its almost impossible for somebody to find out what he is unless he actaully tells them. SHADOW ASSASSINS IN THE GAME Having the ability to go almost anywhere and remain undetected would be a valuable asset to any group. Adaptation: Having a Shadow Assassin in the group would allow the rogue to make more use out of his "people" skills. Encounters: If you manage to find a Shadow Assassin before he kills you, its already too late. NEW FEATS Extra Shadow Form [Shadow] Prerequisites: Shadow Form 1/day Benefit: You can Shadow Fomr two more times per day than you otherwise could. You can gain this feat mutiple times, gaining +2 additional Shadow Forms per day each time. Extended Shadow Form [Shadow] Prerequisites: Shadow Form 1/day Benefit: Each of your Shadow Forms lasts an additional 5 rounds beyond its normal duration. You can take this feat multiple times and the additional rounds stack. Instananeous Shadow Form [Shadow] Prerequisites: Shadow Form 1/day Benefit: Your Shadow Form begins at any time you wish, even when it's not your turn or when your surprised.
Navigator 07-24-06, 01:04 AM	Shadowy Step: At 4th level, Penalties for certain actions while Balancing, Climbing, Hiding, Moving Silently and Hiding are reduced by 5. At 8th level this reduction is increased to 10, at 12th level 15, and at 16th level there is no penalty. This is just asking to be abused. I understand what you're trying to suggest, but not having any penalties of any kind to these checks is unsettling. One thing right off the bat I can think of is this guy running around in full plate, or being effected by glitterdust. Undetectable: At 10th level, a Shadow Assassin gains a special resistance to the Scrying subschool. To detect or see a Shadow Assassin with such a spell, the caster must make a caster level check (DC 20 + the Shadow Assassin?s class level) or the Shadow Assassin is not detected. Personally, I think this ability to be more powerful. He should recieve this bonus against all divinations and not just scrying. Also, it should be 10 + level. Shadow Form: At 20th level, a Shadow Assassin can assume Shadow Form for (1 min/ Shadow Assassin class level)/day. While in this form he gains the Incorporeal subtype, all damage dice besides your attack?s base damage dice are minimized and your attacks deal strength damage. If a humanoid is brought to 0 Strength by an attack they die. In 1d4 rounds they come back as a Shadow if they have 8 or fewer HD or if they have 9 or more HD they come back as a Greater Shadow. All Shadows created in this way are under your control. You may not control more total HD worth of Shadows than Double your Shadow Assassin class level. Any new Shadow created that would exceed your limit is not under your control. You may release any Shadow from your control at any time. This should definately scale with his level instead of suddenly getting a crazy power at 20th. So here's what I suggest to be changed: 1) Change duration to rounds/level. 2) You can easily break the damage he deals so that he one-shots anything that doesn't have a rockstar strength score. Start the ability at 5th level with a 1d4 damage roll. Every 5 levels give him an advanced roll; 1d6 @ 10th, 1d8 @ 15th, 2d6 @ 20th. Though, there will still be many balance issues with this, since most baddies you fight won't even be able to hit you when you're ethereal. In fact, this is pretty unbalanced even that way... this needs some work, but doing that will be a start. Other than that, and aside from the cracked out Shadow Form ability, I think you can power this class up a little bit with more defenses. The evasion line isn't a bad idea. But this class should have a flavored way of defending itself (other than going ethereal).
Kurikin 07-24-06, 02:03 AM	I made some changes to a few of the class features, thanks for the input.
Kurikin 07-24-06, 11:38 AM	I changed the format and made some additional changes.
togapika 07-24-06, 12:09 PM	Essence of the Shadow: At 1st level, a Shadow Assassin gains 1/10 concealment and penalties for certain actions Be sure to mention what those certain actions are.
EjoThims 07-24-06, 01:03 PM	3.0 class then? There's no longer concealment in tenths. There's now simply concealment with a 20% miss chane and total concealment with a 50% miss chance and immunity to attackes of opportunity. Of course, that doesn't stop you from giving all attacks against them a miss chance of 10% for every 5 levels. This would be 50% miss chance at level 20. As for the Essence of the Shadow reducing penalties, it's really not needed, especially with the bonuses to those same skills that they get later. I'd suggest removing it and rewording Essence of the Shadow to grant total concealment at level 20 instead of just the 50% miss chance. Shadow form is just a bit too strong, and likely will always be with the template. Consider replacing it with the Assassin spell Shadow Form as a spell like ability. You can find it in complete adventurer and the spell compendium. I also think that Hide in Plain sight should be granted earlier, possibly on a scale (need fewer shadows and don't have to be as close as you level).
Kurikin 07-24-06, 08:25 PM	3.0 class then? There's no longer concealment in tenths. There's now simply concealment with a 20% miss chane and total concealment with a 50% miss chance and immunity to attackes of opportunity. Nope, v3.5. I guess none of us in the group never noticed the change. Of course, that doesn't stop you from giving all attacks against them a miss chance of 10% for every 5 levels. This would be 50% miss chance at level 20. I'm thinking that a 50% miss chance even at level 20 is a little much. With the tenths concealment 10/10 concealment is 50% so every tenth is 5% miss chance. so at level 20 it would only be a 25% miss chance. Ninja’s ki dodge ability grants a 50% miss chance and it is limited use. As for the Essence of the Shadow reducing penalties, it's really not needed, especially with the bonuses to those same skills that they get later. I see your reasoning and I agree. Shadow form is just a bit too strong, and likely will always be with the template. Consider replacing it with the Assassin spell Shadow Form as a spell like ability. You can find it in complete adventurer and the spell compendium. The whole theme of the class is based around the creatures Shadow and Greater Shadow from the MM1. So using that spell wouldn't go along with this theme as much as I'd like, so I'm going to keep it the same as it is for now. I also think that Hide in Plain sight should be granted earlier, possibly on a scale (need fewer shadows and don't have to be as close as you level). I changed to so you get it at 16th level. Scaling with level isn't seen in any of it's uses anywhere.
benstundze 07-24-06, 09:34 PM	Essence of the Shadow: At 1st level, a Shadow Assassin gains a 5% miss chance from concealment. This improves by an additional 5% every 4 levels. This ability may only be used while wearing light armor or no armor at all. make this a ac bonus maby Starting Gold: 5d4 x 10 (125) math = 100 Alignment: Any lawful? This is agents flavor right? Skills Per Day at 1st Level : (6 + int)x4 Skills Per Day at Each Additional Level : 6 + int maybe make this 4? Shadow Form: At 5th level, a Shadow Assassin can assume Shadow Form for (1 round/ Shadow Assassin class level)/day. While in this form he gains the incorporeal subtype. All physical attacks deal 1d4 Strength damage. Every 5 levels he deals an additional 1d4 of Strength damage. If a humanoid is brought to 0 Strength by an attack they die. In 1d4 rounds they come back as a Shadow if they have 8 or fewer HD or if they have 9 or more HD they come back as a Greater Shadow. All Shadows created in this way are under your control. You may not control more total HD worth of Shadows than Double your Shadow Assassin class level. Any new Shadow created that would exceed your limit is not under your control. You may release any Shadow from your control at any time. maybe make the progression slower and make it so they can only turn a monster with the same amount of hd or lower and make it usable at lvl 1 and make a limit to how many shadows allowable (1 round/ Shadow Assassin class level)/day maby make this usable 2x a day and class lvl for both day and round maby the bab is to high because 30 followers at lvl 5 with 1d8 damige each is over powered
Reversefigure4 07-24-06, 11:53 PM	The 5% increasing concealment is a good idea, not overpowered, and fits with the theme... but I really wonder if it wouldn't just drastically slow play down. Think about it. For every attack made against him, EVERY attack right from the very first level, the DM needs to roll a d% to see if it's a miss. On a couple of attacks, it's not a problem. If a player has Gaseous Form or some such on, not a problem. It's only a few rounds, one battle, etc... but against the Shadow, it's every play. You'd have to actually playtest it to see how it worked out, but my worry is that it'll become a large timewaster to actually implement.
EjoThims 07-25-06, 12:12 AM	The whole theme of the class is based around the creatures Shadow and Greater Shadow from the MM1. So using that spell wouldn't go along with this theme as much as I'd like, so I'm going to keep it the same as it is for now. It's still up to 13 minions that do 1d6 Str damage, 4 minions that do 1d8, or probably best, 1 that does 1d8 and 10 that do 1d6, all of which can have a nearly limitless number of their OWN shadow minions. Even without that little tidbit, that's essentially automatic and constant flanking. It needs some kind of toning down. I changed to so you get it at 16th level. Scaling with level isn't seen in any of it's uses anywhere. This is true, but, to my knowledge, it's also not used by any base classes, and can be gotten by those not as devoted to the shadows quicker than 16th level. It's lookin' really awesome though! The 5% increasing concealment is a good idea, not overpowered, and fits with the theme... but I really wonder if it wouldn't just drastically slow play down. Just roll the percentiles with the attack roll.
Kurikin 07-25-06, 12:33 AM	Essence of the Shadow: At 1st level, a Shadow Assassin gains a 5% miss chance from concealment. This improves by an additional 5% every 4 levels. This ability may only be used while wearing light armor or no armor at all. make this a ac bonus mabye This is just going with the idea of the character is emulating a Shadow. Starting Gold: 5d4 x 10 (125) math = 100 I took this straight out of the PHB1 for the Rogue's starting gold. Alignment: Any lawful? This is agents flavor right? What is an Agent? Skills Per Day at 1st Level : (6 + int)x4 Skills Per Day at Each Additional Level : 6 + int maybe make this 4? 6 sounds like it would be best to me. Less skills than a Rogue but more than pretty much any other class. Shadow Form: ...blah blah blah you know it maybe make the progression slower and make it so they can only turn a monster with the same amount of hd or lower and make it usable at lvl 1 and make a limit to how many shadows allowable There is a limit. A Shadow has 3 HD and a Greater Shadow has 9 HD. This works exactly like the Vampire template's Create Spawn ability. (1 round/ Shadow Assassin class level)/day maby make this usable 2x a day and class lvl for both day and round Now thats just silly talk. Seriosuly, I don't know what you meant by that. maby the bab is to high because 30 followers at lvl 5 with 1d8 damige each is over powered I think the BAB is just fine. Anyways, at level 5 you can either control a maximum of 1 Greater Shadow or 3 Shadows. The 5% increasing concealment is a good idea, not overpowered, and fits with the theme... but I really wonder if it wouldn't just drastically slow play down. Think about it. For every attack made against him, EVERY attack right from the very first level, the DM needs to roll a d% to see if it's a miss. On a couple of attacks, it's not a problem. If a player has Gaseous Form or some such on, not a problem. It's only a few rounds, one battle, etc... but against the Shadow, it's every play. Its not hard to roll 2 extra dice for every attack...
Kurikin 07-25-06, 01:10 AM	I made some changes regarding Shadow form and made Hide in Plain Sight a level 8 class feature. If you prestige as a Shadow Dancer the fastest you can get it is level 6, as an Assassin it is level 13.
gorfnad the shiznit 07-25-06, 02:45 AM	Very flavorful...currently I'm gathering info and ideas for a shadow based campaign (recently posted ideas for Shadow Dragon Shamen). In my sig below are two shadow base classes that you can look at, the Shadow Mage, and the Wraith. I think I may yonk your class to add to my campaign if you don't mind.
Kurama Youko 07-25-06, 04:02 AM	Well looking at the rogue and looking at this, you gain more than your losing. So how does it balance out? Is this a variant rogue at all?
gorfnad the shiznit 07-25-06, 04:18 AM	Well looking at the rogue and looking at this, you gain more than your losing. So how does it balance out? Is this a variant rogue at all? Well, this compared to rogue it is quite an interesting variant persay. This Shadow Assassin does not have the rogue's evasion, uncanny dodge, social based skills, trapfinding, number of skills, skill selection, trapsense ability, bonus special abilities after 10th level... but gains some concealment, trackless step type feature (see druid), woodland stride type feature (see druid), poison use, a small bonus to stealth based skills, hide in plain sight, an interesting shadow form ability, and a divination blocking ability. I would say it's a fairly even trade.
gorfnad the shiznit 07-25-06, 04:22 AM	On another note I think the alignment should be any neutral, mainly in the connection to the Plane of Shadow, which is neutrally aligned, where this class seems to draw it's power from.
unundindur 07-25-06, 07:05 AM	I really like this concept, but I see one point which could lead to some dipp-class problems. Even with 5% miss chance you gain complete immunity from sneak attack and critical hits (not 100% sure about the critical hits). WHile this is all fine at about 10th level, as a 1st level ability this would be to powerful in my oppinion. I am not quite sure how to work around the problem, but at least I pointed it out :) Good luck!
Wakazashi 07-25-06, 10:04 AM	I think that they should get the unarmord abilitys of monks and ninjas, they seem like a class that would get that.
Kurikin 07-25-06, 02:53 PM	Very flavorful...currently I'm gathering info and ideas for a shadow based campaign (recently posted ideas for Shadow Dragon Shamen). In my sig below are two shadow base classes that you can look at, the Shadow Mage, and the Wraith. I think I may yonk your class to add to my campaign if you don't mind. I made some substantial changes to my class after looking at your 2. Most of the classes abilities culminate at Shadow Perfection. The only benefits gained is being considered an outsider and ignoring non magical attacks. I don't mind if you do, why would I have even made this thread it if I wouldn't allow anybody to use it.
EjoThims 07-25-06, 06:18 PM	The new 20th level ability is actually not very good at all. You trade 50% miss chance for the ability to walk through walls constantly instead of only when you are capable of dealing strength damage. Also, your change to Shadow Form does not include the number of times a day that it can be used.
Kurikin 07-25-06, 07:02 PM	The new 20th level ability is actually not very good at all. You trade 50% miss chance for the ability to walk through walls constantly instead of only when you are capable of dealing strength damage. Actaully you are not losing anythign at all. All the Benefits of Sure Footed, Move like a Shadow, Scentless, Essence of Shadow and Shadow Strikes are part of the Incorporeal subtype. Also, your change to Shadow Form does not include the number of times a day that it can be used. It has it in the table. Also I added an effect equal to tireless rage that barbarians get. Incorporeal subtype Some creatures are incorporeal by nature, while others (such as those that become ghosts) can acquire the incorporeal subtype. An incorporeal creature has no physical body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells, including touch spells, or magic weapons, it has a 50% chance to ignore any damage from a corporeal source (except for positive energy, negative energy, force effects such as magic missile, or attacks made with ghost touch weapons). Nondamaging spell effects affect incorporeal creatures normally unless they require corporeal targets to function (such as implosion) or they create a corporeal effect that incorporeal creatures would normally be unaffected by (such as a web or wall of stone spell). Although it is not a magical attack, holy water can affect incorporeal undead, but a hit with holy water has a 50% chance of not affecting an incorporeal creature. An incorporeal creature's attacks pass through (ignore) natural armor, armor, and shields, although deflection bonuses and force effects (such as mage armor) work normally against it. Nonmagical attacks made by an incorporeal creature with a melee weapon have no effect on corporeal targets, and any melee attack an incorporeal creature makes with a magic weapon against a corporeal target has a 50% miss chance, except for attacks it makes with a ghost touch weapon, while are made normally (no miss chance). Any equipment worn or carried by an incorporeal creature is also incorporeal as long as it remains in the creature's possession. An object that the creature relinquishes loses its incorporeal quality (and the creature loses the ability to manipulate the object). If an incorporeal creature uses a thrown weapon or a ranged weapon, the projectile becomes corporeal as soon as it is fired and can affect a corporeal target normally (no miss chance). Magic items possessed by an incorporeal creature work normally with respect to their effects on the creature or on another target. Similarly, spells cast by an incorporeal creature affect corporeal creatures normally. An incorporeal creature has no natural armor bonus but has a deflection bonus equal to its Charisma bonus (always at least +1, even if the creature's Charisma score does not normally provide a bonus). An incorporeal creature can enter or pass through solid objects, but must remain adjacent to the object's exterior, and so cannot pass entirely through an object whose space is larger than its own. It can sense the presence of creatures or objects within a square adjacent to its current location, but enemies have total concealment (50% miss chance) from an incorporeal creature that is inside an object. In order to see farther from the object it is in and attack normally, the incorporeal creature must emerge. An incorporeal creature inside an object has total cover, but when it attacks a creature outside the object it only has cover, so a creature outside with a readied action could strike at it as it attacks. An incorporeal creature cannot pass through a force effect. Incorporeal creatures pass through and operate in water as easily as they do in air. Incorporeal creatures cannot fall or take falling damage. Incorporeal creatures cannot make trip or grapple attacks, nor can they be tripped or grappled. In fact, they cannot take any physical action that would move or manipulate an opponent or its equipment, nor are they subject to such actions. Incorporeal creatures have no weight and do not set off traps that are triggered by weight. An incorporeal creature moves silently and cannot be heard with Listen checks if it doesn't wish to be. It has no Strength score, so its Dexterity modifier applies to both its melee attacks and its ranged attacks. Nonvisual senses, such as scent and blindsight, are either ineffective or only partly effective with regard to incorporeal creatures. Incorporeal creatures have an innate sense of direction and can move at full speed even when they cannot see.