Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Prince_of_Parkness 03-29-08, 12:39 PM	Apocalypto-“the end is near…” “The trees shall be torn in half, The birds will be severed from the sky. The water will swell red as death, And the maggots will seek the light.” (Psyclon Nine, “Lamb of God”) Basic summery: A charisma SAD class which abilities focused on bringing misery and death. I’m hoping to make it equal in power to a PC class, but it would be used mainly for NPCs since its abilities would make it awkward for PCs. “When left to rest object rust, and thing beautiful are dulled by the maw of languor. We exist to keep the world on its edge, for only then may it shines in it fullest glory,” Herson Morinton “The once great world is marred beyond repair, a dead spec of rotten flesh in the great multiverse. We are here to remove this blasphemy and allow the greater powers to replace it with fresh, clean flesh,” Maria Ragornok “People no longer respect their lives, the fortune that shines upon them, the proof of which is their very existence. How can people be so ungrateful to the devine entities, how can they not realiese that the greatest gift will always be with them as long as they walk this Earth? We will help them see, help them understand,” Lorten Jigsaw As the three quotes show, the motivation driving Apocolyptese are not always the same, but their actions are: bring destruction and death, the more the better. Becoming an Apocalypto: These weird people are born, not made. As they grow up they will develop an affinity for the dead and decaying. They will soon notice dark powers related to these themes immerging. Those who do not kill themselves in shame or seek to cure this “infliction” join the ranks of the Apocalyptese. Out look: Apocalyptese will generally have questionable opinions on life and other living thing. Many develop psychotic flaws from a life of constant killing and those who try to prevent their inner need to compromise life will generally commit suicide within days. Disillusionment is best mentality an Apocalypto can hope for. Apocalypto Hit Die: d8 BAB: As fighter Saves: As monk Class Skills The apolocolypto’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (cha), Concentration (con), Craft (int), Descipher Script (int), Diplomacy (cha), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (int), Intimidate (cha) Knwoledge (any)(int), Sense motive (wis), Spellcraft (int), Use magic devise removed Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier. Table: The Apoclalypso Level Special 1st Touch of Oblivion, Send Onwards, Live off murder 2nd Your death is near (move action) 3rd Death forged blade (1 round/cha mod), Shielded from death 4th Aura of death, Die on the inside 5th Smite life, Bonus feat (Death forged weapon) 6th Your death is near (swift action), Death forged weapon (1 minute/cha mod) 7th Maggot Horde, Vast aura (100 ft radios) 8th Red water 9th Death forged weapon (10 minute/cha mod), Embrace life’s parting gift 10th Bonus feat (Death forged weapon) 11th Splinter blade 12th Death forged weapon (1 hour/cha mod), might of oblivion 13th Aura of Sending Onwards 14th Touch of pain 15th Bonus feat (Death forged weapon) 16th Thrust of Death 17th Swift death 18th Speed of oblivion 19th Nothing stands before death 20th Bonus feat (Death forged weapon), My Apocalypse Class Features All of the following are class features of the apocalypto. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An apocalypto is not proficient with any weapons. They are proficient with light but not medium or heavy armor, and not shields. Touch of oblivion (Ex): Whenever an apocalypto uses a touch attack to deliver one of his class abilities, he provokes no attack of opportunity and may ignore the targets deflection bonus to AC. They may use this ability in conjunction with improved unarmed strike to add their unarmed attack damage when doing this. The ability to use touch attack (and latter death forged weapons) represents a pact with death that you will trust the powers it bestowed on you to. You may use no weapons aside the death forged and your own natural ones. Breaking this unspoken law causes you to loose acess to all touch attack and deathforge weapon abilities granted by this class. Send Onwards (Su): “The gates are open, there is no need to hesitate,” At will may use death knell, only gaining a Cha bonus instead of Str. Live off murder: The apocalypto must kill at a number of living things with at least 2 HP equal to their charisma modifier per day or loose one wisdom point. If wisdom is reduced to 5 or less in this manner the apocalypto goes on a killing rampage using the most effective method available to kill until it has finished off one creature per class level. Your death is near (Ex): “Look into my eyes and see how useless it all is, you will die, and there is no way to cheat fate,” May make intimidate check to demoralize opponent as a move equivalent action, duration is one round per char modifier. At level 6 you may do this as a swift action. Death forged blade (Ex): “Master of everything, in this world and the next, death lend me your martial skills,” May forgo benefits of Send Onwards to instead make and exotic melee weapon of their own choice for 1 round per cha modifier. This increase to 1 minute per cha modifier at level at level 6, 10 minute per cha mod at level 9 and 1 hour per char mod at level 12. They are considered proficient with it and may use it to deliver their touch related class abilities, but must forgo any special abilities of the weapon expect reach to do this. Touch of oblivion still applies for these special attacks. At level 5 and every 5 level after (10, 15, 20) they gain a bonus feat that applies to any death forged weapon they make. They choose these from the fighter’s bonus list feat. Shielded from death (Ex): “Death does not want my soul yet,” Gain deflection bonus to AC and bonus to saves equal to Cha modifier. This ability represents a pact with death that you trust it not to claim you. In order to retain these bonuses you must never wear armour heavier than light and no shields or magical items that enhance your AC, unless they to provide a deflection bonus. It does not stack with other class abilities that gives Cha to saves. Aura of Death (Su): “Life will fail you,” Constant 20 ft radios, all creatures within it must make a DC 13 fortitude or will save (which ever is higher) or die. They gain a bonus on this throw equal to their hit points. The creature does not fail this save on a natural of a 1 unless it normally would do to not meeting the DC. This ability cannot be suppressed. At level 7 you may increase the radios of this aura to 100ft for a number of rounds equal to your cha modifier x 5. Die on the inside (Su): ‘As your body begins to give up the fight so does your soul, making your passing arrive all the sooner,” Touch attack deals 2 point of strength and charisma damage. Fort save to avoid strength damage, will to avoid charisma (DC=13+Cha mod). Smite life (Ex): “Life shall be severed in half,” Gain death points equal to Class level + cha mod x 3. Spend one as a free action to gain +1 to attack or damage (stacks) when wielding your death weapon or unarmed. They may not add more than their class level to either one in one round. Death points are recharged at midnight Maggot horde (Su): “The maggots will seat the life,” 3/per day summon and control maggot (centipede from MM) swarm. Duration = class level Red Water (Su): “The waters will swell red as death,” 3/day Turn 10 cubic feat of water per level x cha mod into blood. Drinking or immersion causes 1d4 acid damage and causes subject to become sickened (fort save 12+cha mid avoid sickened but not damage). Alternately the apocalypto may turn 1 flask of water into a potent poison. This acts like a grenade weapon dealing 4d6 acid damage and forcing subject to make a DC 16+cha mod or become sickened. Adjacent targets instead take 1d6 acid damage. This ability also drains one of the 3 per day uses. Embrace life’s parting gift (Su): “Know your time is limited as your body becomes nothing more than home for others,” Touch attack to deliver non magical disease of your choice. DC 16 + cha modifier. Splinter blade (Su): “Death made this blade and as it breaks so is death released,” As a swift action may sacrifice Death forged weapon to force creature that just took damage from attack to make DC 18 fort or will save (which ever is higher) or die. Might of oblivion (Ex): May substitute Cha to hit instead of strength and may add half of their Cha mod to damage. Aura of sending Onwards (Su): 1st level ability becomes 20 ft radios aura, cannot be suppressed. Touch of pain (Su): “Learn to respect all aspects of this, for even this sensation will be over soon,” touch attack to render target hapless for 1d3 rounds and unable to do any actions afters for 1d6+1 round after that. DC: 17+cha mod. Thrust of death (Ex): “None can evade death forever,” As full round action may make an attack with +20 bonus that does not fail on a natural roll of 1. This attack automatically bypasses any harness or damage reduction. If used in conjunction with a touch ability the DC for the effect is raised by 4. Swift death (Ex): All class originating touch attacks are now move equivalent action instead of standard action Nothing is a barrier (Su): Greater Dispel Magic at will, Caster level = Class level. Can even dispel force spells. Speed of oblivion (Su): Under effect of constant hast spell. My Apocalypse (Su): May use miracle spell once per week to cause some natural disaster. No exp cost, but they may not use any other form of spell. So, what do you think? (This is my firsy attempt but I don't think it turned out too awfully)
LordPendragon 03-29-08, 04:12 PM	2 things... First of all, this is overpowered. Max BAB, max saves, and 4+ skills are already a great start. Add in class abilities that allow him to add Cha to almost everything he does, and you start getting really overpowered. Secondly, you spelled Apocalypto wrong in the title (it says Apocalypso).
Qube 03-29-08, 04:14 PM	coding: see sig "Help on working with/on this forum"
Prince_of_Parkness 03-29-08, 04:29 PM	1. Is it really that overpowered? Sure charisma to everything is nice, but its over class abilities are fairly weak. I'll admit this class blossoms at level 3, but everyclass has their own peak. A SAD class isn't automatically over powered. Max BAB, so? Whats he going to do with it? Touch attacks take a standard action, so all that does is give him a good chance of hitting and he has few abilites to support melee fighting. Good saves? True, but i don't think that all that powerful and without evasin he's still going to take half damage from alot of area effects. 4 skill point? Good but hardly game breaking. 2. I know. I noticed just as I'd posted the thread...
Qube 03-29-08, 04:46 PM	1. Is it really that overpowered? Sure charisma to everything is nice, but its over class abilities are fairly weak. I'll admit this class blossoms at level 3, but everyclass has their own peak. A SAD class isn't automatically over powered. Max BAB, so? Whats he going to do with it? how about a fighter 1 / Apocalypto X ? or worse: paladin 4 / Apocalypto X ?
Prince_of_Parkness 03-29-08, 04:56 PM	how about a fighter 1 / Apocalypto X ? How is that broken? You get 1 bonus feat and slightly higher HP for one level? (I'm not a good optomizer, so I won't notice subtle thing.) or worse: paladin 4 / Apocalypto X ? Without UA that impossible, plus wouldn't Shielded from death and devine grace not stack?
Qube 03-29-08, 05:08 PM	How is that broken? You get 1 bonus feat and slightly higher HP for one level? (I'm not a good optomizer, so I won't notice subtle thing.)full plated, great saves, charisma to AC, charisma to saves, Might of oblivion lets see: - strength? nope. might of oblivion. - dex? nope. AC and saves ? HA - con? hp. still need those - int? 8 is enough: bluff, diplomacy and use magic device. 1337 Skillz ... - wis? saves? jHA - cha? through the roof...Without UA that impossible, plus wouldn't Shielded from death and devine grace not stack?tell that to the paladin of tyrrany 4/ hexblade 4: twice charisma to saves ...
Exposed_Wires 03-29-08, 05:15 PM	How is that broken? You get 1 bonus feat and slightly higher HP for one level? (I'm not a good optomizer, so I won't notice subtle thing.) They would automatically get all weapon and armor proficiencies. Broke. Also, if you don't know how to optimize, you shouldn't be trying to make classes. No offense to you and your creativity, but making classes is all about balance. I can tell you right now that a you could get the flavor of this from a multi-classed monk with touch of pain and some other stuff and you wouldn't have balance issues. Edit: It really makes me sad that we have to tell people their creations suck. They get a neat and unique idea that really is cool, but just has no place in a game with rules like D&D.
Prince_of_Parkness 03-29-08, 05:43 PM	full plated, great saves, charisma to AC, charisma to saves, Might of oblivion Changed it so you can't wear full plate any more, is that more balanced? lets see: - strength? nope. might of oblivion. At level twelve, ands its only half to damage. - dex? nope. AC and saves ? HA Ture, but fighters rarely put much in state, and penalties still apply. - con? hp. still need those yes - int? 8 is enough: bluff, diplomacy and use magic device. 1337 Skillz ... Given the changes I've made is it still a problem? - wis? saves? jHA I guess the problem is you can actually afford to take a blow to this state now... - cha? through the roof... My intention - tell that to the paladin of tyrrany 4/ hexblade 4: twice charisma to saves ... I dont quite get this. Paladin gives you Cha to saves but but hexlade doesnt, and I changed it so it doesn't stack with the Apocolypto's abilities.
Prince_of_Parkness 03-29-08, 05:47 PM	They would automatically get all weapon and armor proficiencies. Broke. Fixed. Also, if you don't know how to optimize, you shouldn't be trying to make classes. No offense to you and your creativity, but making classes is all about balance. But i can listen to why its broke and fix it if people are willing to give their time to it I can tell you right now that a you could get the flavor of this from a multi-classed monk with touch of pain and some other stuff and you wouldn't have balance issues. Not really. Where's death forged weapon come from? And maggot horde and red water? Plus monks get alot of abilites that I don't feel suit the Apocolypso. Edit: It really makes me sad that we have to tell people their creations suck. They get a neat and unique idea that really is cool, but just has no place in a game with rules like D&D. If its broken you need to tell me, then I can try and fix it.
Qube 03-29-08, 05:57 PM	Changed it so you can't wear full plate any more, is that more balanced?no: full plate was just an example: the highest possible AC (not counting feats) optainable is high dex (+11 dex, +8 bracers +7 animated shield)At level twelve, ands its only half to damage.this would be about the level you stop buying temporary items (belt of str) for permanent items (the books) ... so all the melleer needs to do is sell his belt of str, and buy a book of CHAGiven the changes I've made is it still a problem?yes: because of the fact that you dump everything in charisma, bluff, diplomacy and UMD really break the game ...I guess the problem is you can actually afford to take a blow to this state now...[QUOTE=Prince_of_Parkness;15468112]but hexlade doesntarcane resistance? either way: it is very dangerous to make a class completely specialized on one stat ... completely redesigns the stat list, and also the equipment list also: it is very variable if you use rolled dice, or point buy for charater creation ...
Prince_of_Parkness 03-29-08, 06:24 PM	no: full plate was just an example: the highest possible AC (not counting feats) optainable is high dex (+11 dex, +8 bracers +7 animated shield) Edited it. Shields and braces won't work any more. this would be about the level you stop buying temporary items (belt of str) for permanent items (the books) ... so all the melleer needs to do is sell his belt of str, and buy a book of CHA Again they don't have that many melee abilities though, and the situation in when they get their weapon isn't always secure yes: because of the fact that you dump everything in charisma, bluff, diplomacy and UMD really break the game ... Ill take your word for it. UMD has been removed. Bluff and Diplomacy are hampered by unsuppresable death aura. ...arcane resistance? Im blind. But it doesnt matter, they don't stack with the Apocalypto's class ability. either way: it is very dangerous to make a class completely specialized on one stat ... completely redesigns the stat list, and also the equipment list Im still convinced it can work. thanks for helping me patch it up. also: it is very variable if you use rolled dice, or point buy for charater creation ... True. Point bye seems alot more common though these days. You can geenrally start with 20 Cha (18 is generally the cap + racial mod) with point buy, which as far as I can tell is good, but not broken.
LordPendragon 03-29-08, 06:38 PM	Why does he even get Bluff and Diplomacy as class skills?? They don't seem very in-character for an avatar of death.
Prince_of_Parkness 03-29-08, 06:48 PM	Why does he even get Bluff and Diplomacy as class skills?? They don't seem very in-character for an avatar of death. I thought it would help them spread misery through lies and manipulation. Influence the right people to start a war, say someone is guilty of a crime and get them executed then tell the autharities and vitums family you were lying
LordPendragon 03-29-08, 06:52 PM	I thought it would help them spread misery through lies and manipulation. Influence the right people to start a war, say someone is guilty of a crime and get them executed then tell the autharities and vitums family you were lying Wow... that's sadistic. I retract my complaint :P
Prince_of_Parkness 03-29-08, 07:06 PM	Wow... that's sadistic. I retract my complaint :P That spose to be the general feel of the class :D
Prince_of_Parkness 03-30-08, 07:50 AM	Made some more changes to flavour and powered up smite life with was pretty weak origionally. ( :bump: )
LordPendragon 03-30-08, 08:57 AM	Made some more changes to flavour and powered up smite life with was pretty weak origionally. ( :bump: ) Emphasis mine. That is exactly the opposite of what you need to be doing. Instead of powering up weak abilities, why not just remove them completely??
Prince_of_Parkness 03-30-08, 09:07 AM	That is exactly the opposite of what you need to be doing. Instead of powering up weak abilities, why not just remove them completely?? I think the first one I made had some really powerful class abilities and others weak. I'm trying to tone down the powerful ones (make sure they don't stack with to many things) and power up the weaker ones to aviod dead levels and give it some better flavour than "Death has granted me such an immense force of perosnality it modifiers all my attributes"
Cyrocloud 03-30-08, 09:51 AM	Well the smite is a little strong x2 would probably be fine. There is only two complaints I have about it. One it's not a SAD class druids and wizard are SAD classes this class requires a good Dex, Con, Cha and Str(Str mainly depends on books avialible) that makes this class more MAD than it is SAD. The other one is the death arura. It seems like a realy crappy ability to have if your in a group. Statistically in 2 min your entire party will be dead, or within 20 days if your immune to it for 24 hrs if you make the save. It kinda makes it difficult to be an ambassador of destruction if every one who hears you speak dies. No one will be able to no what you did. I think it should either be gotten rid of or a 3/day ability for a few rounds. I don't realy think this class is that good realy. You kill your allies unintentionaly, the only abilitiest that would make it realy good for multiclassing are too far in to make that good, at least when in conjunction with spell casters. The cha synergy is nice but a bard/paladin or paladin/hexblade/witch hunter both acomplish similar goals, though three levels of this class would make either one a little better. Especialy since a magic Item pretty much replicates the cha to attack and damage and so does a feat in frostburn. I realy think this class if fine besides that annoying death arura ability. Maybe you could make it so only tiny creatures and smaller would be affected by it and if they make the save immune for the next 24 hours.
Prince_of_Parkness 03-30-08, 10:07 AM	Well the smite is a little strong x2 would probably be fine. How about of compromise of x3? There is only two complaints I have about it. One it's not a SAD class druids and wizard are SAD classes this class requires a good Dex, Con, Cha and Str(Str mainly depends on books avialible) that makes this class more MAD than it is SAD. There seems to be some debate on just how much they need Dex and Str. The other one is the death arura. It seems like a realy crappy ability to have if your in a group. Statistically in 2 min your entire party will be dead, or within 20 days if your immune to it for 24 hrs if you make the save. It kinda makes it difficult to be an ambassador of destruction if every one who hears you speak dies. No one will be able to no what you did. I think it should either be gotten rid of or a 3/day ability for a few rounds. It can only affect creatures with 12 hit point or less (no automatic failure on a natural roll of one). (More if they have a negative modifier to will and fort save). Plus they aren't spose to have allies. The death aura is a for cattle and commoners and at a pinch weak warriors, not strong adventurers. I don't realy think this class is that good realy. You kill your allies unintentionaly, the only abilitiest that would make it realy good for multiclassing are too far in to make that good, at least when in conjunction with spell casters. The cha synergy is nice but a bard/paladin or paladin/hexblade/witch hunter both acomplish similar goals, though three levels of this class would make either one a little better. Especialy since a magic Item pretty much replicates the cha to attack and damage and so does a feat in frostburn. I didn't make this class thinking about multiclassing and I already talked about the ally issue in the previos part. I realy think this class if fine besides that annoying death arura ability. Maybe you could make it so only tiny creatures and smaller would be affected by it and if they make the save immune for the next 24 hours. Again already talked about earlier
Prince_of_Parkness 03-30-08, 08:00 PM	bump
Prince_of_Parkness 04-02-08, 12:28 AM	bump
Prince_of_Parkness 04-06-08, 01:33 PM	bump
Prince_of_Parkness 04-14-08, 07:12 PM	I was thinking of running this class through the gauntles test: 1. A Hallway filled with traps (8 in all, each CR 5 or above - at least that's how I run it) 2. A Fire Giant 3. A Bebilith 4. A Young Blue Dragon 5. A 10th level Necromancer 6. 2 Vrocks 7. 2 Mindflayers 8. 6 Trolls 9. 8 Shadows But was wondering how to manage that. Im guessing I should use point by 24 and assume he rolls maximum for hp at level 1 and 6 everytime after. Do I assume hes had a chance to use death knell? twice? (Once fore the benefits and once for the death forged weapon?)
bkdubs123 04-14-08, 07:44 PM	One, it's a bad idea to make a class under the assumption that it will have no allies. Two, it's a bad idea to make a class without thinking at all about multiclassing. Three, how does this class even use Death Knell in the first place? I see nothing about it at all that has anything to do with the Death Knell spell (or a spell-like ability, or even a supernatural class feature equivalent). Four, Don't assume it's used anything that it couldn't use during the encounter. Treat each encounter as though he has full resources. Average hitpoints and 24pt buy are both proper for building the character. Make sure to spend at least 1/2 gp on gear that you could envision anyone playing the class to buy. Take Feats that help the character perform, but don't buy gear or take feats to design the character especially to defeat any of the challenges.
Prince_of_Parkness 04-14-08, 07:53 PM	One, it's a bad idea to make a class under the assumption that it will have no allies. True, it can have allies, but they themselves would also need to be "soecial", in a psycologically flawed way. Two, it's a bad idea to make a class without thinking at all about multiclassing. Again true, but thanks to some tweaks level dipping isnt that optomized. If you enter this class, its best to stick till the end. Three, how does this class even use Death Knell in the first place? I see nothing about it at all that has anything to do with the Death Knell spell (or a spell-like ability, or even a supernatural class feature equivalent). First level, sending onwards. Four, Don't assume it's used anything that it couldn't use during the encounter. Treat each encounter as though he has full resources. Average hitpoints and 24pt buy are both proper for building the character. Make sure to spend at least 1/2 gp on gear that you could envision anyone playing the class to buy. Take Feats that help the character perform, but don't buy gear or take feats to design the character especially to defeat any of the challenges. Okay, Ill see what i can come up with.
bkdubs123 04-14-08, 08:01 PM	Also, don't assume that anything used during a previous encounter carries on to the next, nor that anything used during a previous encounter can't be used during the next.
Prince_of_Parkness 04-15-08, 08:06 AM	So heres the basic of the sample apocalypto: Loltna: Human / Apocalypso 10 HP: 82 Init: +2 AC: 26 (Touch: 26, Flat: 24) Str: 10 Con: 12 Dex: 14 Int: 13 Wis: 9 Cha: 26 Saves: Fort: +18 Ref: +19 Will: +16 Feats: Improved unarmed strike, Improved Toughness, Superior unarmed fighting, Ability focus: Die on the inside, Ability Focus: Embrace Life’s parting gift, Combat ExpertiseB, Weapon finesse Skills: Bluff +21, Intimidate + 21, Diplomacy +21, Knowledge: (nature) + 14, Sense Motive +12 Gear: Master work chain mail, Cloak of charisma + 4, gloves of dexterity +2, Ring of protection +2, belt of resistance +2, 5 flasks of water, Abilities: Your death is near (swift action), Die on the inside: DC: 23, Smite life: (160 points), Red water (flask, touch attack 4d6 damage, DC 24 or be sickened), Embrace life’s parting gift: DC 26 Standard action: Attack with spiked chain (death forged weapon), +12 attack bonus, 10ft reach, 1d8 damage, deliver touch attack, ignore targets deflection bonus to AC Now its time for the fights
bkdubs123 04-15-08, 01:12 PM	The basic premise is that if you come out of 50% of the fights victorious you've got a fairly balanced class. If you come out of say 70% or higher of the fights victorious some things might should be toned down.
M-bark 04-16-08, 11:39 AM	The basic premise is that if you come out of 50% of the fights victorious you've got a fairly balanced class. If you come out of say 70% or higher of the fights victorious some things might should be toned down. Indeed, if you pit a character against another of the same level they should both win 50% of the time (unless one was designed specifically to combat the other, and the other was not designed specifically to combat the one). Hit Die: d8 BAB: As fighter Saves: As monk While this may come off as strong, I don't find it overpowered. It's like giving a monk full BAB. Then again, a Monk is a MAD class, while you say this is a SAD one. Class Skills The apolocolypto’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (cha), Concentration (con), Craft (int), Descipher Script (int), Diplomacy (cha), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (int), Intimidate (cha) Knwoledge (any)(int), Sense motive (wis), Spellcraft (int), Use magic devise removed Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier. Wait wait wait. Spellcraft? Any knowledge? Forgery? Decipher Script? Why would it need those? Where are the spell lists (needed for Spellcraft in the first place)? Is the class a studious type (with all those knowledge skills, one would think so)? Forgery? Why would an avatar of death forge documents? "Oh, yeah, it says here you are to be killed at 7 PM today, orders from, uh, Lord Winnyworth"? Table: The Apoclalypso Level Special 1st Touch of Oblivion, Send Onwards, Live off murder 2nd Your death is near (move action) 3rd Death forged blade (1 round/cha mod), Shielded from death 4th Aura of death, Die on the inside 5th Smite life, Bonus feat (Death forged weapon) 6th Your death is near (swift action), Death forged weapon (1 minute/cha mod) 7th Maggot Horde, Vast aura (100 ft radios) 8th Red water 9th Death forged weapon (10 minute/cha mod), Embrace life’s parting gift 10th Bonus feat (Death forged weapon) 11th Splinter blade 12th Death forged weapon (1 hour/cha mod), might of oblivion 13th Aura of Sending Onwards 14th Touch of pain 15th Bonus feat (Death forged weapon) 16th Thrust of Death 17th Swift death 18th Speed of oblivion 19th Nothing stands before death 20th Bonus feat (Death forged weapon), My Apocalypse The good thing here is: no dead levels. The bad thing here is: there's a lot. Class Features All of the following are class features of the apocalypto. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An apocalypto is not proficient with any weapons. They are proficient with light but not medium or heavy armor, and not shields. ...WHAT?!? Not proficient with ANY WEAPONS? DUDE! Even the WIZARD is proficient with at least a handful of weapons! If it seems to you that giving them little in this area will allow them to be much stronger with the rest they get, you're wrong, grasshopper. Touch of oblivion (Ex): Whenever an apocalypto uses a touch attack to deliver one of his class abilities, he provokes no attack of opportunity and may ignore the targets deflection bonus to AC. They may use this ability in conjunction with improved unarmed strike to add their unarmed attack damage when doing this. Italic emphasis mine. You know why there exists such a thing as a deflection bonus? Because it's not meant to be pierced by a simple thing as this class feature. As is, they can kill ghosts ten times easier than a barbarian. The ability to use touch attack (and latter death forged weapons) represents a pact with death that you will trust the powers it bestowed on you to. You may use no weapons aside the death forged and your own natural ones. Breaking this unspoken law causes you to loose acess to all touch attack and deathforge weapon abilities granted by this class. So instead of giving them a handy weapon, you instead made them into killer paladins that can be evil or chaotic without possibility of atonement? Send Onwards (Su): “The gates are open, there is no need to hesitate,” At will may use death knell, only gaining a Cha bonus instead of Str. Death Knell at will. A LEVEL TWO spell. Paladins and Warlocks get detect spells at will. Non-damage spells of lower levels. That, and Death Knell, normally a Cleric spell, now gives a bonus to Cha instead of Str. Str doesn't do all that much for a Cleric, but what does Cha do for this class? SHOOPERDAWHOOPER. That's what. Live off murder: The apocalypto must kill at a number of living things with at least 2 HP equal to their charisma modifier per day or loose one wisdom point. If wisdom is reduced to 5 or less in this manner the apocalypto goes on a killing rampage using the most effective method available to kill until it has finished off one creature per class level. Wow. So they really need to kill to survive. And they cannot even kill rats or mice to get to it. Well, maybe rats, but not mice. So I guess they would be allowed into Disney World. Also, this makes the class extra hard for cooperative play. Which is what DnD is all about, basically. Your death is near (Ex): “Look into my eyes and see how useless it all is, you will die, and there is no way to cheat fate,” May make intimidate check to demoralize opponent as a move equivalent action, duration is one round per char modifier. At level 6 you may do this as a swift action. ??? Okay... Death forged blade (Ex): “Master of everything, in this world and the next, death lend me your martial skills,” May forgo benefits of Send Onwards to instead make and exotic melee weapon of their own choice for 1 round per cha modifier. This increase to 1 minute per cha modifier at level at level 6, 10 minute per cha mod at level 9 and 1 hour per char mod at level 12. They are considered proficient with it and may use it to deliver their touch related class abilities, but must forgo any special abilities of the weapon expect reach to do this. Touch of oblivion still applies for these special attacks. At level 5 and every 5 level after (10, 15, 20) they gain a bonus feat that applies to any death forged weapon they make. They choose these from the fighter’s bonus list feat. An EXOTIC WEAPON? And they can basically use it AT WILL, TOO? No wonder you left out the weapon proficiencies, this class is a spiked chain tripster insta-build! Shielded from death (Ex): “Death does not want my soul yet,” Gain deflection bonus to AC and bonus to saves equal to Cha modifier. This ability represents a pact with death that you trust it not to claim you. In order to retain these bonuses you must never wear armour heavier than light and no shields or magical items, unless they to provide a deflection bonus. It does not stack with other class abilities that gives Cha to saves. Nerull called, he wants to have a word with you. This may not sound overpowered, but what it is is, in fact, that this makes the class one of the most unbalanced classes of all. I mean, they cannot use magical stuff, AT ALL, unless they provide a deflection bonus? You go pick up the MIC and calculate what percentage of the items in there gives a deflection bonus and what percentage of the items are ones that make you go "hubba hubba!" Aura of Death (Su): “Life will fail you,” Constant 20 ft radios, all creatures within it must make a DC 13 fortitude or will save (which ever is higher) or die. They gain a bonus on this throw equal to their hit points. The creature does not fail this save on a natural of a 1 unless it normally would do to not meeting the DC. This ability cannot be suppressed. At level 7 you may increase the radios of this aura to 100ft for a number of rounds equal to your cha modifier x 5. "YOU PHAIL AT LIFE!" Sorry, I had to do it. While it sounds interesting, if only because you get to shout that line every so often, this is overpowered. "I take one step. Everyone, make Fort saves vs instadeath!" "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!" Die on the inside (Su): ‘As your body begins to give up the fight so does your soul, making your passing arrive all the sooner,” Touch attack deals 2 point of strength and charisma damage. Fort save to avoid strength damage, will to avoid charisma (DC=13+Cha mod). Why is the DC 13+Cha mod exactly? Why 13? Smite life (Ex): “Life shall be severed in half,” Gain death points equal to Class level + cha mod x 3. Spend one as a free action to gain +1 to attack or damage (stacks) when wielding your death weapon or unarmed. They may not add more than their class level to either one in one round. Let's see. At level 5, with 16 Cha, you would have 24 Death Points. So you could deal 5 points of extra damage with four hits and then four points with a fifth hit. Maggot horde (Su): “The maggots will seat the life,” 3/per day summon and control maggot (centipede from MM) swarm. Duration = class level lolwut So you instantly get 3 uses per day, and none afterwards. You could/should change this to 1 use at first and gain extra uses later. Red Water (Su): “The waters will swell red as death,” 3/day Turn 10 cubic feat of water per level x cha mod into blood. Drinking or immersion causes 1d4 acid damage and causes subject to become sickened (fort save 12+cha mid avoid sickened but not damage). Alternately the apocalypto may turn 1 flask of water into a potent poison. This acts like a grenade weapon dealing 4d6 acid damage and forcing subject to make a DC 16+cha mod or become sickened. Adjacent targets instead take 1d6 acid damage. This ability also drains one of the 3 per day uses. Same on the uses as with the former ability. That, and blood just doesn't deal acid damage. Ever. And why is the base of that Fort save 12? Embrace life’s parting gift (Su): “Know your time is limited as your body becomes nothing more than home for others,” Touch attack to deliver non magical disease of your choice. DC 16 + cha modifier. Why is the base DC 16? Aside from that, the ability is interesting. Splinter blade (Su): “Death made this blade and as it breaks so is death released,” As a swift action may sacrifice Death forged weapon to force creature that just took damage from attack to make DC 18 fort or will save (which ever is higher) or die. Woo. So after the Death Knell at will and Chain at will, they now get a Finger of Death at will? Might of oblivion (Ex): May substitute Cha to hit instead of strength and may add half of their Cha mod to damage. If I would be allowed to play this class... Heck, if I ever wanted to play this class, I'd just dump everything and shoot Cha through the fricken' roof. "25 point-for-point buy? All right then. All 8s, except for 33 Cha." Aura of sending Onwards (Su): 1st level ability becomes 20 ft radios aura, cannot be suppressed. Supression is good. Why else would there be tyrants? IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH FREEDOM IS SLAVERY WAR IS PEACE Touch of pain (Su): “Learn to respect all aspects of this, for even this sensation will be over soon,” touch attack to render target hapless for 1d3 rounds and unable to do any actions afters for 1d6+1 round after that. DC: 17+cha mod. Unable to do anything = helpless. That, and the base DC of 17 is also buggering. Thrust of death (Ex): “None can evade death forever,” As full round action may make an attack with +20 bonus that does not fail on a natural roll of 1. This attack automatically bypasses any harness or damage reduction. If used in conjunction with a touch ability the DC for the effect is raised by 4. Always bypassing DR = bad. "Oh look, I'm a god with DR 30/epic and slashing but I just got totally mauled by this guy!" Swift death (Ex): All class originating touch attacks become move equivalent action Wait, what were they then before? Nothing is a barrier (Su): Greater Dispel magic at will, Caster level = Class level. Can even dispel force spells. ... I just lost another shred of hope for humanity. Speed of oblivion (Su): Under effect of constant hast spell. ... There goes another. My Apocalypse (Su): May use miracle spell once per weak to cause some natural disaster. No exp cost. ... And you just shattered another big. No XP cost for DOING WHATEVER THE F YOU WANT = UBER BAD. So, what do you think? (This is my firsy attempt but I don't think it turned out too awfully) My opinion is this: start out small and work your way up from there. Make something that is simple and obviously not powerful, and then start filling levels and upping the power of abilities. If you want to make this into a class at some point, I advise to make it a mucho downpowered PrC.
Prince_of_Parkness 04-16-08, 03:37 PM	First off thanks for the detailed analysis and funny comments. I laughed really hard reading them. While this may come off as strong, I don't find it overpowered. It's like giving a monk full BAB. Then again, a Monk is a MAD class, while you say this is a SAD one.. Good to see you dont think its over powered based on that. Wait wait wait. Spellcraft? Any knowledge? Forgery? Decipher Script? Why would it need those? Where are the spell lists (needed for Spellcraft in the first place)? Is the class a studious type (with all those knowledge skills, one would think so)? Forgery? Why would an avatar of death forge documents? "Oh, yeah, it says here you are to be killed at 7 PM today, orders from, uh, Lord Winnyworth"?. DEATHNOTE! (sorry had to say that) At lower levels they can hardly go about shacking death out of their little finger (thats at higher levels). So I thought they would need to have resources to be smart with. The Knowledges, spellcraft and desigher language are because I imagin this class as all knowing, the kind that bores you to death with a speech about how they know all about you, your strengths and your weaknessess before finally killing you. The good thing here is: no dead levels. The bad thing here is: there's a lot.. Not all of the abilities are useful. ...WHAT?!? Not proficient with ANY WEAPONS? DUDE! Even the WIZARD is proficient with at least a handful of weapons! If it seems to you that giving them little in this area will allow them to be much stronger with the rest they get, you're wrong, grasshopper.. Since they can't use any weapons aside natural and death forged ones there was no point in giving them any weapon proficiencies. Italic emphasis mine. You know why there exists such a thing as a deflection bonus? Because it's not meant to be pierced by a simple thing as this class feature. As is, they can kill ghosts ten times easier than a barbarian.. Some classess are just better at fighting ceetain types of creatures, just like fighter with mage slayer is going to be more effective against a spell weaver than a disarmer. these are a special class, I felt they deserved some special abilities. So instead of giving them a handy weapon, you instead made them into killer paladins that can be evil or chaotic without possibility of atonement?. Yep. They are killers. Those who stop, as i mentioned in the flavour are frequently driven to commit suicide. Its not spose to be a meember of the regular PC party Death Knell at will. A LEVEL TWO spell. Paladins and Warlocks get detect spells at will. Non-damage spells of lower levels. That, and Death Knell, normally a Cleric spell, now gives a bonus to Cha instead of Str. Str doesn't do all that much for a Cleric, but what does Cha do for this class? SHOOPERDAWHOOPER. That's what.. Its not a damaging spell though. It only works it the target has -1 hp. And the bonuses don't accumilate, so I dont feel its overpowered. Wow. So they really need to kill to survive. And they cannot even kill rats or mice to get to it. Well, maybe rats, but not mice. So I guess they would be allowed into Disney World.. Nope. Entering disney world causes them to loose acess to all class features. Also, this makes the class extra hard for cooperative play. Which is what DnD is all about, basically.. They aren't ment to be in a standard group. ??? Okay.... Just to give it some melee abilities. An EXOTIC WEAPON? And they can basically use it AT WILL, TOO? No wonder you left out the weapon proficiencies, this class is a spiked chain tripster insta-build!. They lack the feats to do that effectivly, and they do need to have a dead creature in order to do so. Nerull called, he wants to have a word with you. This may not sound overpowered, but what it is is, in fact, that this makes the class one of the most unbalanced classes of all. I mean, they cannot use magical stuff, AT ALL, unless they provide a deflection bonus? You go pick up the MIC and calculate what percentage of the items in there gives a deflection bonus and what percentage of the items are ones that make you go "hubba hubba!". Sorry, i made a mistake there. You can't gain any aditional AC bonuses from magical items unless its a deflection AC bonus. Ill edit that. "YOU PHAIL AT LIFE!" Sorry, I had to do it. While it sounds interesting, if only because you get to shout that line every so often, this is overpowered. "I take one step. Everyone, make Fort saves vs instadeath!" "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!". Do i have to bold the fact that creatures gain a bonus on this save equal to their hit points and that they dont automatically fail on a nat 1? Why is the DC 13+Cha mod exactly? Why 13?. 10 + equivilant spell level (hightened to 3 because they are just awesome) + cha mod Let's see. At level 5, with 16 Cha, you would have 24 Death Points. So you could deal 5 points of extra damage with four hits and then four points with a fifth hit.. Dam. I forgot to add they refresh every day. Dam Dam Dam! Ill edit that. lolwut So you instantly get 3 uses per day, and none afterwards. You could/should change this to 1 use at first and gain extra uses later.. I didnt want to clog up the class progression by splitting this into 3 seperate abilites. Same on the uses as with the former ability. That, and blood just doesn't deal acid damage. Ever. And why is the base of that Fort save 12?. This blood does. I wanted to make it typed so that it could be resisted, and I felt acid was the most appropriate. Fort 12 becuase its weak, since it affects alot of water. Why is the base DC 16? Aside from that, the ability is interesting.. 10 + equivilant spell level (hightened to 6 because they are just awesome) + cha mod Woo. So after the Death Knell at will and Chain at will, they now get a Finger of Death at will?. They need to sacrifice there deathforged weapn in order to do this, and alot of their abilities are tied to this, so its a big sacrifice. Chances are they wont be able to make a new one all that soon. If I would be allowed to play this class... Heck, if I ever wanted to play this class, I'd just dump everything and shoot Cha through the fricken' roof. "25 point-for-point buy? All right then. All 8s, except for 33 Cha.". That would make you severly underpowered at lover levels, and you need con. Supression is good. Why else would there be tyrants? IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH FREEDOM IS SLAVERY WAR IS PEACE . This is to empthasis the fact that they cannot stop killing. Unable to do anything = helpless. That, and the base DC of 17 is also buggering.. You cnt necissarrily Cou De Grace something that cant take any action, but you can if they're helpless. Always bypassing DR = bad. "Oh look, I'm a god with DR 30/epic and slashing but I just got totally mauled by this guy!". ToB have several manouvers that have the exac same effect. The DM will need to be logical when deciding if there are any exeptions to this class feature. Wait, what were they then before? Standard action I assume. ... I just lost another shred of hope for humanity. This one Im open to. Normal dispel caster level 10? Is that better? ... There goes another. Many monsters have constant haste, they arent all that strong. Sure In a PC hands its worth more, but this is a very high level ability. ... And you just shattered another big. No XP cost for DOING WHATEVER THE F YOU WANT = UBER BAD. They can only use the miracle spell to create a natural disaster, nothing else. My opinion is this: start out small and work your way up from there. Make something that is simple and obviously not powerful, and then start filling levels and upping the power of abilities. If you want to make this into a class at some point, I advise to make it a mucho downpowered PrC. Unles I'm doing something really wrong its not that strong. Its getting slaughtered in the gauntlet test. Over all thanks for the indepth analysis and pointing out some wording errors.