Base Class: The Brawler [Archive] - Wizards Community

Base Class: The Brawler [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Edymnion
05-03-07, 03:49 PM Brawler
Even the smallest of villiages often has a local tavern, a place for the people to go for a drink and unwind after a hard day. And anywhere that has drinks and people in it will eventually have a fight break out. Some people try to get out of the way of a tavern fight, others manage to hold their own. Some, however, throw themselves into the fight with glee, enjoying every moment. These people are Brawlers. Where others spent years doing weapon drills, or mystical training, the brawler simply kicked back and enjoyed themselves, never passing up a good fist fight. Hard work on the farm or in the city made them strong, and a rowdy nightlife made them tough. Some people you just don't pick a fight with, because some people are natural born Brawlers.

Adventures: Brawlers seldom remain in one place for very long, their love of a good fight often times means that they find themselves kicked out of peace loving towns, while those with darker connections occassionally decide to leave town for the sake of their health after crossing the wrong sort of people. Others may travel to see the world, confident in their own ability to protect themselves from such petty threats as bandits and robbers. Some may even adventure for the love of a good fight, wandering ever farther in the search of a challenging foe.

Characteristics: Years of fighting in taverns and back allies have made the brawler an expert at unarmed combat. While not as devistating with their fists as a trained monk, they are far less concerned about honorable combat and far more willing to sucker punch an opponent that isn't giving the fight their full attention, likely knocking them out cold and ending the fight without doing permanent harm. Brawlers can also take a punch as well, and are capable of taking beatings that would floor lesser fighters in stride.

Alignment: Brawlers can be of any alignment, but most often tend to be Chaotic. These brawlers generally fight for the shear enjoyment of the fight, and have little reguard for rules and regulations on civil conduct. More lawful brawlers tend to be professional bare knuckle fighters, like boxers, who participate in well planned events. Good aligned brawlers may be happy go lucky fellows that simply enjoy a good row from time to time, while Evil brawlers are often savage and cruel, almost sadistic in their desire to pummel a happless opponent.

Religion: Tavern type brawlers are most likely to worship a god of luck, while professionally trained fighters often revere gods of strength. However, as brawlers can come from any walk of life, they are likely to follow any god they like, or none at all.

Background: Some brawlers are trained pugelists who fight for purse money in organized bouts, but most are simply tavern goers who have seen more than their fair share of tavern fights. A fair number are ex-bouncers from taverns or other such locations that weren't afraid of loosening the teeth of rowdy patrons before throwing them to the streets.

Races:Half-orcs take to the brawler way of life most readily, more often out of necessity than by choice. The constant harrassment many half-orcs face within "civilized" communities often forces them into fights that others could have avoided, and when guards are apt to check a half-orc's weapons at the door, their fists are often the only things available to them. Humans are also common brawlers, especially in larger cities where the pressures of life are more likely to be released in a good fight at the local watering hole. And while the dwarven reputation for brawling is almost lengendary, relatively few take to it as an actual way of life. Gnomes and Halflings typically do best to avoid large scale brawls with the taller folk around, but within mostly halfling/gnomish communities, they are as likely to become brawlers as humans. Elves rarely become brawlers, preferring a more refined and civilized means of combat, as opposed to the melee of swinging fists that accompanies a tavern brawl.

Classes: Brawlers get along best with Barbarians and Rogues, Barbarians for their shared love of a good fight, and Rogues who are most likely to share a common background. They have a grudging respect for Monks, but often find them to be more than a little arrogant due to their strict discipline. Brawlers typically do not get along with Fighters or Rangers who tend to look down on them as untrained and undisciplined, the proverbial bull in the china shop.

Role: The brawler is an oppertunistic secondary combatant. Their lower hp and lack of heavy armor prevents them from being front line meleers, thier people skills and loose combat style make them ideal within urban settings. The brawler's large number of attacks also makes him
ideal for combat with a large number of lightly armored foes, such as in a bar fight.
Lvl BAB FORT REFL WILL Special Two Fisted BAB Unarmed
Damage

1 +0 +2 +2 +0 Sucker Punch +1d4 -2/-2 1d4
Two Fisted Fighting
2 +1 +3 +3 +0 Hard Headed 1 -1/-1 1d4
3 +2 +3 +3 +1 Bonus Feat +0/+0 1d4
4 +3 +4 +4 +1 Sucker Punch +2d4 +1/+1 1d4
5 +3 +4 +4 +1 +1/+1 1d6
6 +4 +5 +5 +2 Hard Headed 2 +2/+2 1d6
7 +5 +5 +5 +2 Bonus Feat +3/+3 1d6
8 +6/+1 +6 +6 +2 Sucker Punch +3d4 +4/+4/-1/-1 1d6
Improved Two Fisted Fighting
9 +6/+1 +6 +6 +3 +4/+4/-1/-1 1d8
10 +7/+2 +7 +7 +3 Hard Headed 3 +5/+5/+0/+0 1d8
11 +8/+3 +7 +7 +3 Bonus Feat +6/+6/+1/+1 1d8
12 +9/+4 +8 +8 +4 Sucker Punch +4d4 +7/+7/+2/+2 1d8
13 +9/+4 +8 +8 +4 +7/+7/+2/+2 1d10
14 +10/+5 +9 +9 +4 Hard Headed 4 +8/+8/+3/+3 1d10
15 +11/+6/+1 +9 +9 +5 Greater Two Fisted Fighting +9/+9/+4/+4/-1/-1 1d10
16 +12/+7/+2 +10 +10 +5 Sucker Punch +5d4 +10/+10/+5/+5/+0/+0 1d10
17 +12/+7/+2 +10 +10 +5 Bonus Feat +10/+10/+5/+5/+0/+0 2d6
18 +13/+8/+3 +11 +11 +6 Hard Headed 5 +11/+11/+6/+6/+1/+1 2d6
19 +14/+9/+4 +11 +11 +6 +12/+12/+7/+7/+2/+2 2d6
20 +15/+10/+5 +12 +12 +6 Sucker Punch +6d4 +13/+13/+8/+8/+3/+3 2d6
Game Rule Information
Brawlers have the following game statistics.
Abilities: Strength and Constitution are most important for a brawler, allowing them to throw more powerful punches and giving them enough hitpoints to take a few punches in return. Dexterity is also important to the lightly armored brawler in order to increase their AC. Brawlers that want to focus more on their social skills would do well to have an above average Charisma score as well.
Alignment: Any
Hit Dice: d8

Class Skills
Bluff, Climb, Craft (Any), Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (Local), Listen, Profession (Any), Sense Motive
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) X 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the brawler.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Brawlers are proficient with all Simple weapons and Light armor. Brawlers are not proficient with Medium armor, Heavy armor, or shields - in fact, some of the brawler's class abilities require relatively unfettered movement. When wearing armor heavier than Light, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a brawler loses his Two Fisted Fighting abilities.

Sucker Punch: If a brawler can catch an opponent when they are unable to defend themselves effectively from his attack, he can take a cheap shot to deal extra non-lethal damage. Basically, the brawler's attack deals extra non-lethal damage any time his target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the brawler flanks his target. This extra non-lethal damage is 1d4 at 1st level, and it increases by 1d4 every four brawler levels thereafter. Should the brawler score a critical hit with a sucker punch, this extra damage is not multiplied.

A brawler cannot make a Sucker Punch as a ranged attack, only melee.

A brawler can sucker punch only living creatures susceptable to non-lethal damage that have an Intelligence score of 1 or higher. A brawler must be able to reach a creature's head or other vital area in order to sucker punch, but can effectively sucker punch opponents that have less than total concealment so long as the head or other area can be made out.

Two Fisted Fighting: At second level, the brawler gains the equivolant of Two Weapon Fighting (Unarmed Attacks), allowing him to make a second attack with his off hand.

Unarmed Damage: Brawlers are quite skilled at punching, kicking, and other unarmed attacks. At first level the brawler gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A brawler's unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but he may choose to deal non-lethal damage instead with no penalty on his attack roll. He has the same choice to deal lethal or non-lethal damage while grappling.

A brawler's unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons (such as the magic fang and magic weapon spells, or the Improved Natural Weapon feat).

A brawler's unarmed strike damage increases with experience as listed on the above table.

Hard Headed: As a brawler increases in level, they gain limited immunity to non-lethal damages, such as from standard unarmed attacks. At level 2, they gain damage reduction of 1/Lethal Damage. This damage reduction increases by 1 point every four brawler levels thereafter, up to DR 6/Lethal Damage at level 18.

Bonus Feat: At 3rd level, a brawler gets a bonus feat in addition feat. The brawler also gains a bonus feat at level 7, 11, and 17. These bonus feats must be drawn from the following list: Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Dash, Dodge, Improved Critical (Unarmed Strike), Improved Feint, Improved Initiative, Mobility, Weapon Focus (Unarmed Attack). A brawler must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums.

Improved Two Fisted Fighting: At eith level, the brawler gains the equivolant of Improved Two Weapon Fighting (Unarmed Attacks).

Greater Two Fisted Fighting: At fifteenth level, the brawler gains the equivolant of Greater Two Weapon Fighting (Unarmed Attacks).
teshen
05-06-07, 09:01 PM It looks like a commoner version of a monk.

The fist damage isn't as dependable as monk damage and gives no way to pierce DR. Ignoring amounts of non-lethal damage will be useless on adventures. The two weapon fighing can be done by a monk if he sinks the personal feats into it, and he still has flurry and greater flurry...

I like the idea, but I think the execution needs a lot of work. I really don't see anything here that can't bed done with a monk/rogue with the appropriate ascetic feat.
Vharuck
05-06-07, 09:09 PM I get where you're coming from, Edy. This is mostly supposed to be a good class for DMs to use for NPCs in towns. However, it's straddling a line: sure, the Brawler won't be as easy a pushover for the PCs should they start trouble in a bar, but they won't ever pose much of a threat. I'd think just multiclassing between warrior and commoner or expert would get the job done the same.
Edymnion
05-07-07, 08:17 AM Actually, my baseline assumption was that the Monk was totally out of place and has no business being in the PHB any more than a Samurai or Ninja. The game needed a bare fisted fighting class, but the Monk was not it.
teshen
05-07-07, 11:19 AM Actually, my baseline assumption was that the Monk was totally out of place and has no business being in the PHB any more than a Samurai or Ninja.
If you're going solely for eurocentric fantasy, I'll agree. But just to be nit picky... Samurai and Ninja aren't in the PHB. :P

...But if that is the case, you may have to scrap paladins, druids, and a couple of others because they've gone too far a field compared to their real world compatriots to be recognizable as such.

The game needed a bare fisted fighting class, but the Monk was not it.And I'll give you an Amen on that. The flurry says 'spaz' to me. The increased unarmed damage is cool, but because of the way DR and magic enchantments work, it's still weaker than a good martial weapon. Average base attack says unskilled combatant. Poor hit points say 'No! No! Hit him (the guy in the armor). Not me!" And a lot of the mystic abilities do nothing to really help out fighting.

If you're going to do this, look at classes like the fighting types... the fighter, the barbarian, and the ranger and think about what a brawler would need to survive as an adventure... and non-lethal resistance ain't it.
Edymnion
05-07-07, 05:32 PM If you're going solely for eurocentric fantasy, I'll agree. But just to be nit picky... Samurai and Ninja aren't in the PHB. :P That was my point. The Samurai and Ninja aren't in the PHB, so why should the Shao-Lin monk be there?
...But if that is the case, you may have to scrap paladins, druids, and a couple of others because they've gone too far a field compared to their real world compatriots to be recognizable as such. They at least have a basis in a eurocentric game. There were noble knights, there were shamanistic druids, but there weren't unarmed martial arts experts.
If you're going to do this, look at classes like the fighting types... the fighter, the barbarian, and the ranger and think about what a brawler would need to survive as an adventure... and non-lethal resistance ain't it.Well, to be honest, non-lethal resistance was almost pure fluff to give it an extra edge in a fist fight, which PCs rarely get into.

But it already has comprable damage output to the monk (and much more whenever he can get sucker punch to land), wears armor that can be enchanted, gets an alternative to Flurry, and a number of bonus feats.

Honestly, I see it as being equivolent to the Monk as is.
leomunds_assistant
05-07-07, 06:42 PM But it already has comprable damage output to the monk (and much more whenever he can get sucker punch to land), wears armor that can be enchanted, gets an alternative to Flurry, and a number of bonus feats.

Honestly, I see it as being equivolent to the Monk as is.

Sorry to say, but their is the problem. You do as much damage as a monk which isn't much. The monk also gets SR where you Dr/ lethal damage, and other goodies where you get squat. The extra sucker punch isn't as good as a flurry 'o blows, or a stunning fist. I have made an unarmed combatant, and have play tested and it turned rather nice. It is in my sig. I did the second most damge next a druid that was in lion wildshape, while rainin' donw the lightning bolts each round.
Edymnion
05-08-07, 04:57 PM I did the second most damge next a druid that was in lion wildshape, while rainin' donw the lightning bolts each round.Honestly, then I would say its not very well balanced if you could keep up with the damage output of one of the most broken core classes in the game.

"Equivolent damage per round to a fighter of equal level with a greatsword" is the measure of balance for damage output IMO.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Edymnion 05-03-07, 03:49 PM	Brawler Even the smallest of villiages often has a local tavern, a place for the people to go for a drink and unwind after a hard day. And anywhere that has drinks and people in it will eventually have a fight break out. Some people try to get out of the way of a tavern fight, others manage to hold their own. Some, however, throw themselves into the fight with glee, enjoying every moment. These people are Brawlers. Where others spent years doing weapon drills, or mystical training, the brawler simply kicked back and enjoyed themselves, never passing up a good fist fight. Hard work on the farm or in the city made them strong, and a rowdy nightlife made them tough. Some people you just don't pick a fight with, because some people are natural born Brawlers. Adventures: Brawlers seldom remain in one place for very long, their love of a good fight often times means that they find themselves kicked out of peace loving towns, while those with darker connections occassionally decide to leave town for the sake of their health after crossing the wrong sort of people. Others may travel to see the world, confident in their own ability to protect themselves from such petty threats as bandits and robbers. Some may even adventure for the love of a good fight, wandering ever farther in the search of a challenging foe. Characteristics: Years of fighting in taverns and back allies have made the brawler an expert at unarmed combat. While not as devistating with their fists as a trained monk, they are far less concerned about honorable combat and far more willing to sucker punch an opponent that isn't giving the fight their full attention, likely knocking them out cold and ending the fight without doing permanent harm. Brawlers can also take a punch as well, and are capable of taking beatings that would floor lesser fighters in stride. Alignment: Brawlers can be of any alignment, but most often tend to be Chaotic. These brawlers generally fight for the shear enjoyment of the fight, and have little reguard for rules and regulations on civil conduct. More lawful brawlers tend to be professional bare knuckle fighters, like boxers, who participate in well planned events. Good aligned brawlers may be happy go lucky fellows that simply enjoy a good row from time to time, while Evil brawlers are often savage and cruel, almost sadistic in their desire to pummel a happless opponent. Religion: Tavern type brawlers are most likely to worship a god of luck, while professionally trained fighters often revere gods of strength. However, as brawlers can come from any walk of life, they are likely to follow any god they like, or none at all. Background: Some brawlers are trained pugelists who fight for purse money in organized bouts, but most are simply tavern goers who have seen more than their fair share of tavern fights. A fair number are ex-bouncers from taverns or other such locations that weren't afraid of loosening the teeth of rowdy patrons before throwing them to the streets. Races:Half-orcs take to the brawler way of life most readily, more often out of necessity than by choice. The constant harrassment many half-orcs face within "civilized" communities often forces them into fights that others could have avoided, and when guards are apt to check a half-orc's weapons at the door, their fists are often the only things available to them. Humans are also common brawlers, especially in larger cities where the pressures of life are more likely to be released in a good fight at the local watering hole. And while the dwarven reputation for brawling is almost lengendary, relatively few take to it as an actual way of life. Gnomes and Halflings typically do best to avoid large scale brawls with the taller folk around, but within mostly halfling/gnomish communities, they are as likely to become brawlers as humans. Elves rarely become brawlers, preferring a more refined and civilized means of combat, as opposed to the melee of swinging fists that accompanies a tavern brawl. Classes: Brawlers get along best with Barbarians and Rogues, Barbarians for their shared love of a good fight, and Rogues who are most likely to share a common background. They have a grudging respect for Monks, but often find them to be more than a little arrogant due to their strict discipline. Brawlers typically do not get along with Fighters or Rangers who tend to look down on them as untrained and undisciplined, the proverbial bull in the china shop. Role: The brawler is an oppertunistic secondary combatant. Their lower hp and lack of heavy armor prevents them from being front line meleers, thier people skills and loose combat style make them ideal within urban settings. The brawler's large number of attacks also makes him ideal for combat with a large number of lightly armored foes, such as in a bar fight. Lvl BAB FORT REFL WILL Special Two Fisted BAB Unarmed Damage 1 +0 +2 +2 +0 Sucker Punch +1d4 -2/-2 1d4 Two Fisted Fighting 2 +1 +3 +3 +0 Hard Headed 1 -1/-1 1d4 3 +2 +3 +3 +1 Bonus Feat +0/+0 1d4 4 +3 +4 +4 +1 Sucker Punch +2d4 +1/+1 1d4 5 +3 +4 +4 +1 +1/+1 1d6 6 +4 +5 +5 +2 Hard Headed 2 +2/+2 1d6 7 +5 +5 +5 +2 Bonus Feat +3/+3 1d6 8 +6/+1 +6 +6 +2 Sucker Punch +3d4 +4/+4/-1/-1 1d6 Improved Two Fisted Fighting 9 +6/+1 +6 +6 +3 +4/+4/-1/-1 1d8 10 +7/+2 +7 +7 +3 Hard Headed 3 +5/+5/+0/+0 1d8 11 +8/+3 +7 +7 +3 Bonus Feat +6/+6/+1/+1 1d8 12 +9/+4 +8 +8 +4 Sucker Punch +4d4 +7/+7/+2/+2 1d8 13 +9/+4 +8 +8 +4 +7/+7/+2/+2 1d10 14 +10/+5 +9 +9 +4 Hard Headed 4 +8/+8/+3/+3 1d10 15 +11/+6/+1 +9 +9 +5 Greater Two Fisted Fighting +9/+9/+4/+4/-1/-1 1d10 16 +12/+7/+2 +10 +10 +5 Sucker Punch +5d4 +10/+10/+5/+5/+0/+0 1d10 17 +12/+7/+2 +10 +10 +5 Bonus Feat +10/+10/+5/+5/+0/+0 2d6 18 +13/+8/+3 +11 +11 +6 Hard Headed 5 +11/+11/+6/+6/+1/+1 2d6 19 +14/+9/+4 +11 +11 +6 +12/+12/+7/+7/+2/+2 2d6 20 +15/+10/+5 +12 +12 +6 Sucker Punch +6d4 +13/+13/+8/+8/+3/+3 2d6 Game Rule Information Brawlers have the following game statistics. Abilities: Strength and Constitution are most important for a brawler, allowing them to throw more powerful punches and giving them enough hitpoints to take a few punches in return. Dexterity is also important to the lightly armored brawler in order to increase their AC. Brawlers that want to focus more on their social skills would do well to have an above average Charisma score as well. Alignment: Any Hit Dice: d8 Class Skills Bluff, Climb, Craft (Any), Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (Local), Listen, Profession (Any), Sense Motive Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) X 4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier. Class Features All of the following are class features of the brawler. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Brawlers are proficient with all Simple weapons and Light armor. Brawlers are not proficient with Medium armor, Heavy armor, or shields - in fact, some of the brawler's class abilities require relatively unfettered movement. When wearing armor heavier than Light, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a brawler loses his Two Fisted Fighting abilities. Sucker Punch: If a brawler can catch an opponent when they are unable to defend themselves effectively from his attack, he can take a cheap shot to deal extra non-lethal damage. Basically, the brawler's attack deals extra non-lethal damage any time his target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the brawler flanks his target. This extra non-lethal damage is 1d4 at 1st level, and it increases by 1d4 every four brawler levels thereafter. Should the brawler score a critical hit with a sucker punch, this extra damage is not multiplied. A brawler cannot make a Sucker Punch as a ranged attack, only melee. A brawler can sucker punch only living creatures susceptable to non-lethal damage that have an Intelligence score of 1 or higher. A brawler must be able to reach a creature's head or other vital area in order to sucker punch, but can effectively sucker punch opponents that have less than total concealment so long as the head or other area can be made out. Two Fisted Fighting: At second level, the brawler gains the equivolant of Two Weapon Fighting (Unarmed Attacks), allowing him to make a second attack with his off hand. Unarmed Damage: Brawlers are quite skilled at punching, kicking, and other unarmed attacks. At first level the brawler gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A brawler's unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but he may choose to deal non-lethal damage instead with no penalty on his attack roll. He has the same choice to deal lethal or non-lethal damage while grappling. A brawler's unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons (such as the magic fang and magic weapon spells, or the Improved Natural Weapon feat). A brawler's unarmed strike damage increases with experience as listed on the above table. Hard Headed: As a brawler increases in level, they gain limited immunity to non-lethal damages, such as from standard unarmed attacks. At level 2, they gain damage reduction of 1/Lethal Damage. This damage reduction increases by 1 point every four brawler levels thereafter, up to DR 6/Lethal Damage at level 18. Bonus Feat: At 3rd level, a brawler gets a bonus feat in addition feat. The brawler also gains a bonus feat at level 7, 11, and 17. These bonus feats must be drawn from the following list: Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Dash, Dodge, Improved Critical (Unarmed Strike), Improved Feint, Improved Initiative, Mobility, Weapon Focus (Unarmed Attack). A brawler must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums. Improved Two Fisted Fighting: At eith level, the brawler gains the equivolant of Improved Two Weapon Fighting (Unarmed Attacks). Greater Two Fisted Fighting: At fifteenth level, the brawler gains the equivolant of Greater Two Weapon Fighting (Unarmed Attacks).
teshen 05-06-07, 09:01 PM	It looks like a commoner version of a monk. The fist damage isn't as dependable as monk damage and gives no way to pierce DR. Ignoring amounts of non-lethal damage will be useless on adventures. The two weapon fighing can be done by a monk if he sinks the personal feats into it, and he still has flurry and greater flurry... I like the idea, but I think the execution needs a lot of work. I really don't see anything here that can't bed done with a monk/rogue with the appropriate ascetic feat.
Vharuck 05-06-07, 09:09 PM	I get where you're coming from, Edy. This is mostly supposed to be a good class for DMs to use for NPCs in towns. However, it's straddling a line: sure, the Brawler won't be as easy a pushover for the PCs should they start trouble in a bar, but they won't ever pose much of a threat. I'd think just multiclassing between warrior and commoner or expert would get the job done the same.
Edymnion 05-07-07, 08:17 AM	Actually, my baseline assumption was that the Monk was totally out of place and has no business being in the PHB any more than a Samurai or Ninja. The game needed a bare fisted fighting class, but the Monk was not it.
teshen 05-07-07, 11:19 AM	Actually, my baseline assumption was that the Monk was totally out of place and has no business being in the PHB any more than a Samurai or Ninja. If you're going solely for eurocentric fantasy, I'll agree. But just to be nit picky... Samurai and Ninja aren't in the PHB. :P ...But if that is the case, you may have to scrap paladins, druids, and a couple of others because they've gone too far a field compared to their real world compatriots to be recognizable as such. The game needed a bare fisted fighting class, but the Monk was not it.And I'll give you an Amen on that. The flurry says 'spaz' to me. The increased unarmed damage is cool, but because of the way DR and magic enchantments work, it's still weaker than a good martial weapon. Average base attack says unskilled combatant. Poor hit points say 'No! No! Hit him (the guy in the armor). Not me!" And a lot of the mystic abilities do nothing to really help out fighting. If you're going to do this, look at classes like the fighting types... the fighter, the barbarian, and the ranger and think about what a brawler would need to survive as an adventure... and non-lethal resistance ain't it.
Edymnion 05-07-07, 05:32 PM	If you're going solely for eurocentric fantasy, I'll agree. But just to be nit picky... Samurai and Ninja aren't in the PHB. :P That was my point. The Samurai and Ninja aren't in the PHB, so why should the Shao-Lin monk be there? ...But if that is the case, you may have to scrap paladins, druids, and a couple of others because they've gone too far a field compared to their real world compatriots to be recognizable as such. They at least have a basis in a eurocentric game. There were noble knights, there were shamanistic druids, but there weren't unarmed martial arts experts. If you're going to do this, look at classes like the fighting types... the fighter, the barbarian, and the ranger and think about what a brawler would need to survive as an adventure... and non-lethal resistance ain't it.Well, to be honest, non-lethal resistance was almost pure fluff to give it an extra edge in a fist fight, which PCs rarely get into. But it already has comprable damage output to the monk (and much more whenever he can get sucker punch to land), wears armor that can be enchanted, gets an alternative to Flurry, and a number of bonus feats. Honestly, I see it as being equivolent to the Monk as is.
leomunds_assistant 05-07-07, 06:42 PM	But it already has comprable damage output to the monk (and much more whenever he can get sucker punch to land), wears armor that can be enchanted, gets an alternative to Flurry, and a number of bonus feats. Honestly, I see it as being equivolent to the Monk as is. Sorry to say, but their is the problem. You do as much damage as a monk which isn't much. The monk also gets SR where you Dr/ lethal damage, and other goodies where you get squat. The extra sucker punch isn't as good as a flurry 'o blows, or a stunning fist. I have made an unarmed combatant, and have play tested and it turned rather nice. It is in my sig. I did the second most damge next a druid that was in lion wildshape, while rainin' donw the lightning bolts each round.
Edymnion 05-08-07, 04:57 PM	I did the second most damge next a druid that was in lion wildshape, while rainin' donw the lightning bolts each round.Honestly, then I would say its not very well balanced if you could keep up with the damage output of one of the most broken core classes in the game. "Equivolent damage per round to a fighter of equal level with a greatsword" is the measure of balance for damage output IMO.