Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Monkeygod 03-09-06, 12:43 AM	this is just an idea, not set in stone, so no flaming Very Happy but, what pre-reqs would u all give to the base classes that appear in books other than the PHB and XPH in order to make them PrCs??
Mitchell 03-09-06, 04:27 AM	I'm not sure that I understand the question. Are you asking what requirements I would put on swashbuckler, for example, to make it a PrC?
CzarGarrett 03-09-06, 09:29 AM	I think that is what is being asked. The problem with that, is there are a lot of PrCs that are already like many of the new 'core classes'. Swashbuckler would be Duelist, for example.
Monkeygod 03-09-06, 07:36 PM	its part of my attempt to limited the total number of PrCs in my homebrew im working on... yes i know they're all optional, but i like my players to have as many options as possible so i was thinking bout maybe making the non-PHB/XPH base classes into 20 lvl PrCs instead
Nephlite 03-09-06, 07:44 PM	I think that is what is being asked. The problem with that, is there are a lot of PrCs that are already like many of the new 'core classes'. Swashbuckler would be Duelist, for example. Duelist lacks Insightful Strike, Czar. Swadhbuckler Prc would have nothing duelist has. Except require Weapon finessis also maybe.
CzarGarrett 03-10-06, 08:44 AM	Duelist lacks Insightful Strike, Czar. Swadhbuckler Prc would have nothing duelist has. Except require Weapon finessis also maybe. Thematically, they are the same. A lightly armored fighter who uses speed and agility rather than strength when in battle.
Nephlite 03-10-06, 10:07 AM	Thematically, they are the same. A lightly armored fighter who uses speed and agility rather than strength when in battle. Neither fits. Both are A lightly armored warriors who uses intelligence and agility rather than strength when in battle. Duelist uses Int for AC and Swash uses it for damage. Heck, Duelist has torelyon Str for damage.
legowarrior 03-10-06, 12:31 PM	I'd love to see Hex Blade in Prestige, like they did for the Paladin and the Ranger.
CzarGarrett 03-10-06, 01:25 PM	Neither fits. Both are A lightly armored warriors who uses intelligence and agility rather than strength when in battle. Duelist uses Int for AC and Swash uses it for damage. Heck, Duelist has torelyon Str for damage. Its not an exact fit. I never said it was. Get your head out of your behind.
Gondolier 03-10-06, 01:48 PM	This is an interesting question, and one that I'm looking at for different reasons. I'm writing a setting in which magic is not taken for granted by every Joe Average out there. In addition to revamping the core classes (to better represent a world which is also pretty low-tech and brutal to survive in), I'm strongly considering bumping all the primarily magical classes (Wizard, Sorceror, Cleric, Druid) up to PrCs and knocking the spells off of the secondary spellthrowers (Bard, Ranger, Paladin). Were I to do that, I'm thinking I'd have to require ranks in special Knowledge groups, very high prereqs in the primary ability score (so everybody who starts as a fighter with a Cha of 11 can't turn sorceror at level 5) and a roleplaying element, such as a ritual, totem quest or some other sort of trial (would definitely suit my tribal theme.) I know that there are a lot of balance issues to deal with, and now I'm only in theory phase, and some players won't want to play in my game, because they might get shot once and die, but I'm trying a new style of game: Players don't want to play a "Dice-Lite" campaign when the DM presents it, so I'm experimenting with a way to make combat so potentially deadly that every time I say "Roll Initiative", they'll be scared to death. My hope is most of them will fight tooth and nail to stay out of combat, and maybe a story will get told. I dunno if this was an answer to the original question or an expression of interest in more opinions. I think a little of both, although the former is pretty well hidden in there. -G
Mitchell 03-10-06, 08:46 PM	While the arguing didn't contribute too much, it did bring up a point that you could use as a starting point. Compare the Duelist and the Swashbuckler. Are they the same? Not mechanically, but thematically. It may help you get an idea for requirements. The bigger problem is that the PrCs that are out there now play out over ten levels in most cases. All of the good stuff is there. For the core classes they build up over time. If someone takes swashbuckler at 6th level, then they only go to 15 in the regular game, and miss out on some class features that otherwise would have been theirs. You may want to remove some features, condense the rest into a 10 level frame, and see what you have there. Again, using the swashbuckler, get rid of the free weapon finesse and instead make it a requirement to enter the class, for example. Remember, no PrC (that I am aware of) can be entered until the character is at least 5th level (they can enter the PrC at 6th), so set your requirements along similar lines, and provide the power expected for a 6th level choice. For the other poster, looking to turn magic classes into PrCs, the easiest thing that I can think of is ranks in Knowledge: Arcana or Religion depending on which way that they want to go. You could also set secondary requirements such as K: Nature for Druids, K: The Planes for Clerics, Spellcraft for Wizards, and if you have any bloodline feats, change the requirements so that you don't have to be a Sorcerer to take them, but you instead would have to take them to become a Sorcerer. They would maybe just sit there until they became a sorcerer, but once they switch, they would kick in and everything would even itself out. Otherwise, I would just say that Sorcerers and Wizards would operate with the same requirements.
Anshin Mandango 03-10-06, 10:08 PM	Gondolier: if you are looking for a low-magic setting, why not try looking at the d20 modern SRD/books for ideas? that setting is about as low-magic (or FX as they call it) as it goes. and it already has primary spell caster PrC's for arcane, devine and psionics, also, Urban Arcana, the more Buffy-like setting for modern, is also represented in the SRD, so give it a look, it may help.
Gondolier 03-14-06, 01:20 PM	if you are looking for a low-magic setting, why not try looking at the d20 modern SRD/books for ideas? Thanks! I'll take a look at the SRD. I actually just read the same suggestion on Rich Burlew's website, but I hadn't thought of the SRD. I'm too broke to go buy the books...