Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RysanMarquise 10-11-07, 11:43 PM	When creating the class I wanted to create someone who was inherently based around the use of swift actions. The concept seemed interesting to me, and the most obvious path to this was speach. Unfortunately, I seem to always be part of underpowered campaigns or at least low-magic therefore I believe that the class is significantly too weak. Any advice for balancing it is appreciated, I am just hesistant to make something too powerful. After getting some opinions I'll likely re-write it and put it up as PEACH The Sonari Hit Die: D6 Simple Weapon Proficiency Proficient With Light and Medium Armor Medium Attack Progression High Will, Medium Reflex, Low FOrt 4 Skill Points Per level Class Skills: Craft, Concentration, Listen, Spot, Search. Healing, Perform, Diplomacy, Bluff, Intimidate, Sense Motive, Appraise, Gather Information, Speak Language Progression 1: Know Sound, Voice of Striking(1d4, 5') Bonus Feat 2: Voice of Commanding(+2)Bonus Feat 3: Voice of Striking(1d4, 20') 4: Voice of Wisdom 5, Commanding Shout 5: Voice of Striking(1d6, 30'), Voice of Commanding(+4)Bonus Feat 6: 7: Voice of Striking(1d6. 60') 8: Voice of Many, Voice of Commanding(+6), Commanding Shout(2 times), Bonus Feat 9: Voice of Striking(1d8, 60') 10: Voice of Strength, Silence 11: Voice of Striking(1d8, 90'), Voice of Commanding(+8), Bonus Feat 12: Commanding Shout (3 times), Voice of Power 13: Voice of Striking(1d10, 100') 14:Voice of Commanding(+10), Bonus Feat 15: Voice of Striking(1d12, 120') 16: Commanding Shout(4 times), Voice of Reason 17: Voice of Striking(1d12, 200') Voice of Commanding(+12), Bonus Feat 18: Commanding Shout (3x day) 19: Voice of Striking(2d10, 300') 20: Voice of Commanding(+14) Commanding Shout (5 times), Bonus Feat, Voice of All Know Sound: The Sonari has such an in-depth attunement with the workings of sound and energy that he is able to sense their presence far more easily. Add his class level to all listen checks. Voice of Striking: A Sonari is able to make a devastating attack with their voice, focusing their very energies to do damage to their target. This is a free action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity, but does prevent the character from talking for the round. In order to hit, the attacker must have line of sight against the target. The attacker x rolls a D20 and adds their class level, rolling against 10+Targets Will Save to hit, ignoring any armor or other defenses the target has. Damage is done as indicated. Voice of Commanding Starting at second level, then every third level afterwards (5,8,11...) the Caller gains a bonus on all verbal diplomacy, bluff, and intimidate checks. This ability cannot be used if the Sonari cannot speak, and only work for the purposes of getting the target to perform some specific task. Voice of Wisdom The Caller's words are chosen carefully. They gain the ability to add their wisdom bonus to all skills that use charisma. In addition, they now add their Wisdom bonus when dealing damage with Voice of Striking. Commanding Shout Once per day, then once more every 4 levels after a Sonari can make a commanding shout. They add their Sonari class level to any Intimidate or Diplomacy check for the purposes of making a single command. They may instead may make a Bluff check for the purposes of instilling a suggestion. If this is done then they will add double their class level instead of the normal single. All other bonus' apply normally. Voice of Many The caller gains the ability to attack multiple targets with their Voice of Striking. They receive a -4 on tests to hit for each attack added in this way. All targets must be within Wisdom bonus*5 feet from each-other and within range. Silence: At level 10 a Sonari gains the ability to neutralize any spell with a verbal component, by using his Voice to nullify the sound. Threat this as a counter-spell using Dispel Magic, using the Sonari's listen skill instead of spell-craft to identify the spell, and the Sonari's level for the dispel check. If the checks are successful, then the spell is countered with no effect. This check recieves an additional -2 for every level of the spell above third. This is a supernatural ability. Voice of Strength At level 10 Sonari gain the ability to focus their strength inward. Instead of using voice of striking in a turn, they may instead choose to add the damage to any one attack that they make. This damage is not resistable by a will save and counts normally as a part of the attack. Voice of Power At level 12 a Sonari may choose to use a different damage type for his attacks. At will he may choose his Voice of Striking to do Fire, Cold, Electric, or Acid damage instead of sonic. The attack gains no bonus' due to this. Voice of Reason At level 16, a Sonari gains the ability to use his powers to boost the abilities of himself or others. The Sonari must spend a turn focusing, then unleashes a burst of energy to aid or guide one target. Any skill check is increased by the Sonari damage roll as if he was using Voice of Striking. This can only be used on skill checks that take less than one turn. If the skill lasts longer then this, then the bonus disappears after this time. Voice of All At level 20, a Sonari gains the ability to talk while using his abilities, and to hit any target within line of sight, regardless of range. His ability to hit multiple opponents doubles in range(to wisdom bonus*10 feet from eachother).
Tevin Illithane 10-12-07, 03:42 PM	Overall: Interesting idea. Could use a few formatting touches to get it to statblock standards, but that's being nit-picky. The class has a good feel and strengths that are relevant to the concept, but there are some definite problem areas. I'll break down the areas as I see them, both strengths and weaknesses. Hit Dice: Appropriate at a d6, the same as a bard's. No worries here. Armour Profs: Personally, I don't see medium armour as appropriate, as this seems more a light-armoured, maneuver-y type. Just my impression. BAB: Fair enough; no worries here. Saves: Agree with Will being primary(I see this class as being very willful), but cut Reflex back to low; this isn't Star Wars. ;) Skills: Drop Heal(makes no sense), Search and Spot(focused on aural, not visual); add in Craft and Profession(all classes have them). "Know Sound": Nice idea; no worries here. "Voice of Striking": Fun idea, but the mechanics need some work. Attack roll should be either a ranged touch attack(with an attack roll of 1d20+class level(i.e. "caster level")+Wis) or as a Reflex save for half damage(DC 10+1/2 class level+Wis). I'm on the wall as to whether it should be a free action or not...Also, this ability should have to make some kind of contested roll to overcome magical silence...perhaps a caster level check against the same DC? Bonus Feats: That's a lot of bonus feats(8 in total), too many actually. Nix some, and specify whether these feats are free to be chosen from any list or from only a set list(if it's free-to-choose, nix more feats than if you have a set list). "Voice of Commanding": Seems a bit strong in regards to the bonus totals conferred, but for now I'll leave it untouched. "Voice of Wisdom": On the wall about this one since it adds to Use Magic Device as well, but theme-wise it is a plausible idea... "Commanding Shout": Good idea, but I wonder about its usefulness. Also, the description is vague as to when it would add double the class level to the roll(which I think is a bad idea anyway); could you clear that up? "Voice of Many": Multiple attacks as a free action? Eww. This doesn't feel good to me. Not sure how to correct it, though. "Silence": Nice addition, but change it to add in that only spells cast in the range of their "Voice of Striking" ability can be targeted. "Voice of Strength": Don't really get the purpose on this one, so I'll leave it as is for the moment. "Voice of Power": Don't like. Mechanically, thematically, this does not fit with the class concept. Best to replace it. "Voice of Reason": Too much of a bonus(a bard only gives a +2 competence), and it needs a limit per day. As this is quite easily noticed that it's based off the bard's "Inspire Competence", you should also add in the note that this bonus only aids certain skills and that the bonus is a competence bonus rather than unnamed. "Voice of All": Damage as a free action/counterspelling...at eyesight range? Not cool. The doubling of targets is also too ambiguous; does the penalty lessen to -2/target, or is it for every -4 you take you can hit two targets?
RysanMarquise 10-12-07, 05:17 PM	Overall: Interesting idea. Could use a few formatting touches to get it to statblock standards, but that's being nit-picky. Intend to improve formatting when I have more time. Saves: Agree with Will being primary(I see this class as being very willful), but cut Reflex back to low; this isn't Star Wars. While I understand your arguement, but had intended the class for mobility so it seemed to fit. Skills: Drop Heal(makes no sense), Search and Spot(focused on aural, not visual); add in Craft and Profession(all classes have them). Will drop heal, but I believe that spot should remain in if not search. The concept of the class is that they are very focused (half of why their ability works). Will add in profession, craft whas already there. "Voice of Striking": Fun idea, but the mechanics need some work. Attack roll should be either a ranged touch attack(with an attack roll of 1d20+class level(i.e. "caster level")+Wis) or as a Reflex save for half damage(DC 10+1/2 class level+Wis). I'm on the wall as to whether it should be a free action or not...Also, this ability should have to make some kind of contested roll to overcome magical silence...perhaps a caster level check against the same DC? Good point on the magical silence. The concept of the class though isn't that they are running around firing sonic blasts or cones of energy, it is a shout that aims at you on the personal level. No more dodgable than any other shout. Not sure how to better represent this, but I don't believe that a ranged touch attack is the best way. Will agree that it is a bit odd though. As for it being a free action, you should also note that it does relatively little damage and prevents verbal spell-casting (and other talking). Bonus Feats: That's a lot of bonus feats(8 in total), too many actually. Nix some, and specify whether these feats are free to be chosen from any list or from only a set list(if it's free-to-choose, nix more feats than if you have a set list). Will bring down the progression to once every four levels then, bringing it down to 5. I am thinking any feat from the 'general' catagory for their restriction. They must qualify for as normal. "Commanding Shout": Good idea, but I wonder about its usefulness. Also, the description is vague as to when it would add double the class level to the roll(which I think is a bad idea anyway); could you clear that up? It makes certain checks easier. You would add double when attempting to instill a suggestion, will work on the wording later today. The point of this was to make them be able to use this in a similar way to the suggestion spell at higher levels, if their skill was sufficiently high. "Voice of Many": Multiple attacks as a free action? Eww. This doesn't feel good to me. Not sure how to correct it, though. Actually this is the old version, when I revised it the ability was -3 to hit each target and I cringed at how rarely this hit. It is very difficult to hit with the ability as is (impossible against being with high will saves at higher levels), this makes it significantly more difficult. This ability really only works well against enemies significantly weaker than you. "Silence": Nice addition, but change it to add in that only spells cast in the range of their "Voice of Striking" ability can be targeted. Good Catch, will correct allong with everything else when I get back. "Voice of Strength": Don't really get the purpose on this one, so I'll leave it as is for the moment. Overcoming damage resistance, creatures who have good saves and you can therefore never actually hit with Voice of Striking. This has many purposes, but overall doesnt seem that amazing- that is fine. "Voice of Power": Don't like. Mechanically, thematically, this does not fit with the class concept. Best to replace it. If I can think of something I likely will. Again, the concept of the class is you are attacking their person directly, sound just happens to be a medium. This merely changes the nature of the energy. "Voice of Reason": Too much of a bonus(a bard only gives a +2 competence), and it needs a limit per day. As this is quite easily noticed that it's based off the bard's "Inspire Competence", you should also add in the note that this bonus only aids certain skills and that the bonus is a competence bonus rather than unnamed. Bards also add their competence bonus to many other things than skills, do it to many people at a time, and take less focus. The ability may well need some nerfing though. "Voice of All": Damage as a free action/counterspelling...at eyesight range? Not cool. The doubling of targets is also too ambiguous; does the penalty lessen to -2/target, or is it for every -4 you take you can hit two targets? You may have noticed that he already has 300' range at this point, the eyesight isn't as big a jump as you would make it seem. The range between targets doubles, not the ease of hitting. Will reword this later.
Tevin Illithane 10-12-07, 07:35 PM	*not quoting due to uber-quoting overload >_>* Saves: My initial comment was due to that in D&D, there are no half-saves; it's either good or poor, nothing in the middle. Star Wars is the only one with that(though perhaps WoT did too...I don't recall ATM). Skills: Was Craft already there? Huh...*blames his lack of sleep*. Also wanted to say that I was glad that Perform was in there. Before I looked at the skill list the first thing I was thinking was "Perform, all the way". :D Voice of Striking: Fair point about the spellcasting, but note that'll still allow you to cast Silented spells...which is just a one-level raise, sometimes nullible depending on feat selection. As for the mechanic...oi, yeah, I can see why that'd be a bugger to try to stat out, that idea. In that case it makes me think Fort save now, but it's hard to say. Also, mention that the attack deals sonic damage. It's a no-duh, I know, but as it sits it's currently untyped damage. :) Feats: Sounds better. Muuuch better :) Commanding Shout: Gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up. Voice of Many: Just something I though- limit the number of attacks. Whether the final Striking mechanic is as attack or save, a natural 20 attack always hits and a natural 1 save always fails...and yes, while it's ridiculous to think, technically as-written you could make 40 attacks a round with this as long as there are enough people. Voice of Reason: Fair points about the limitations, granted, but by the time you're getting this skill you're adding a potential +12 to a skill...every round, and up to +20 at 20th level. I just kinda wince at those numbers; numbers that big should be saved for spell damage and bonus HP, not skill bonuses *laughs*. Either way, just make sure to list the bonus as competence rather than leaving it untyped. =) Voice of All: You've never stood on a mountain and looked down, have ya? :D Eyesight can be a long, looooong range. Granted, it's not much different than the epic feat which allows archers to shoot at eyesight range(and 20th level capstone abilities has been pretty much accepted as being around epic-feat equivalent or so), but worth pointing out. Thinking about that, though...I'm not terribly worried about it(it's just anything with "within eyesight" as its distance tends to leave a bad taste in my mouth.) And could you imagine an evil one of these guys sniping poor villagers from atop a mountain all day long? It's like a kid with a magnifying glass against ants; pop, there goes another one! =D