Basic Multiclassing Questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Basic Multiclassing Questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Skeletalmage
08-07-05, 04:06 PM Hey guys. For the first time ever, I am looking at playing a multiclassed character, but I do not fully comprehend the section on this in the manuals. What I want to do is start out as a 1/1 fighter/magicuser. Here are my questions:

1) Do I HAVE to start out as one or the other, choosing to pick the remaining class at level up?

2) How are bonuses handled? If class A get a +1 bonus and class B get's a +2 to the same, is it cummulative (+3)?

I may have more questions later. If somebody can answer these for me, or point me to a clear resource, I'd appreciate it.
StormCrow42
08-07-05, 04:18 PM The rules for multiclassing are on pages 59-60 of the PHB, I'd recommend reading them closely. The basics of it are that at each level you can choose whatever class you want to gain a level in (subject to meeting the qualifications and GM approval of course). You then gain all the abilities of the class level you've just taken (starting from level 1 for each class). A 4th level character with 2 levels each in rogue and fighter (for instance) would have all the abilities listed for a 2nd level fighter and a 2nd level rogue. Saving throw bonuses and your base attack bonus (BAB) are added together, such a character would have a BAB of +3 and saving throw bonuses of +3/+3/+0 respectively.

If you're starting at 1st level, yes you can only have one class, you can pick up the second one at level 2.
Skeletalmage
08-07-05, 04:21 PM Much thanks! Your BAB example, and that I must start out as single class, is exactly what I wanted to know.

:)
Skeletalmage
08-07-05, 05:50 PM Sorry to double, but...can somebody view this and see if I got it right? Keep in mind that I set it up as if it were already a mc char, even though I know it isn't. I did this to help me visualize the direction it needs to go.

http://ragingpenguin.com/lorenzo.txt

Thanks in advance.
Borris
08-07-05, 07:07 PM I hope you're aware that abilities other than Intelligence will not grant you bonus spells.

Well, your hp should be 12, since you get max (10) at 1st-level plus your Con modifier (2).

Since you're human, you get an extra skill point per level. As a fighter with +3 Int modifier, you should be able to max 6 skills, not just 5.

Your columns for saves and attack bonus are misleading. The +2/+3/+3 to saves, for example, comes from your ability modifiers, not your fighter levels.

You probably shouldn't wear armor if you intend to take a level of wizard next. A 40% casting failure is horrible for a spellcaster.

While we're at it, why are you using a short sword? Since you can afford one and are proficient with it, why not go for a longsword? On average, it deals 1 more points of damage per hit than a short sword.
StormCrow42
08-07-05, 07:35 PM Another useful option if you're going to use a computer to generate your character sheet is to use pcgen (http://pcgen.sourceforge.net) , which makes getting all of the numerical value trivial (and also produces a nifty looking character sheet). It comes set up with all of the information included in the SRD (basically almost everything from the PHB, DMG, and MM) and is easy to expand (either by entering your own info, or by purchasing data sets from Code Monkey Publishing (http://www.codemonkeypublishing.com/))
Skeletalmage
08-07-05, 07:45 PM I hope you're aware that abilities other than Intelligence will not grant you bonus spells.

Yes, I just listed the whole lot anyway.

Well, your hp should be 12, since you get max (10) at 1st-level plus your Con modifier (2).

Since you're human, you get an extra skill point per level. As a fighter with +3 Int modifier, you should be able to max 6 skills, not just 5.

Thanks, I missed that. I'll have to re-read some things then.

Your columns for saves and attack bonus are misleading. The +2/+3/+3 to saves, for example, comes from your ability modifiers, not your fighter levels.

For the attach section, don't fighters and wizards each have different base attack bonuses? This is kinda what my first question in this thread was about.

The way I understood it was that they are cumulative.

Given the following for fighter based on my modifiers:
BAB: +1
MAB: +3
RAB: +3

Then when I get my first level in Wizard, I add those as well? This is still a grey area to me...

You probably shouldn't wear armor if you intend to take a level of wizard next. A 40% casting failure is horrible for a spellcaster.

Yes, but it's been a while since I've played. I want to ensure I make it past 1st level.

While we're at it, why are you using a short sword? Since you can afford one and are proficient with it, why not go for a longsword? On average, it deals 1 more points of damage per hit than a short sword.

Again, saving money for the unforseen during first level.

I've made some adjustments to the sheet. View again and see if it makes more sense. I would use an autogen thing, but I need to know how to do it myself, should I be somewhere with no pc and need a char.
slade_caizer
08-07-05, 08:30 PM One thing that may help you keep all the math in order would be to completely ignore what Wizard does and does not have until you actually gain a level in it.

It looked like your character is starting at 1st level (a common thing, I know). So, for example, it would be simpler and more accurate to have your class listed only as "Fighter". The reason for this is really basic but easy to overlook when multiclassing is viewed as a whole rather than step-by-step: You aren't a Wizard (yet).

So for example your HD is only d10. Once you actually get a level of Wizard it will indeed be 1d10+1d4. Also, you are correct that once you do get into multiclassing you will add BAB from both classes, but again you don't appear to have gotten that far.

In essence you just have a Human Fighter 1 with BAB 1 (Melee 4, Ranged 4), saves of 4/3/3, and HP 12. Of course you do get that bonuse human feat, your standard 1st level feat, and one for being a Fighter. I think I only saw 2 feats; there should be three. Your skills points would total [(2+3+1)x4] or 24.

{In case that leaves questions my sources for the numbers were Fighter+Int+HumanBonus}

Once you become a Wizard at 2nd level (or whenever you take it), you'll add 1d4+Con HP, +2 to your will save, +0 to your BAB, and another 6 skill points (again Wizard+Int+HumanBonus).

The trick to keeping multiclassing simple is to remember that you are NOT combining classes. You are simply taking two (or more) different ones. The numbers are handled separately for each class and THEN totalled. At first it helps to take the building one level at a time. Eventually you may do things like I've seen some others (ppl on the CO board for example) and plan your build from the beginning and extrapolate all the way to 20th level.

For example, say I chose to make a Fighter/Wizard as well (I commonly do).
I'll do something like (sticking to core books for now)

Fighter1/Wizard9/EldritchKnight10

I know that the BAB will be 1+4+10=15 and that it'll have a caster level of 9+9=18. Fort save would be 2+3+7=12. Reflex would be 0+3+3=6. Will would be 0+6+3=9. HP would be 10(max at 1st level)+9d4+10d6. I think you get the idea.

Essentially it can be taken in all at once, but if you're just trying it out, remember to look at things a piece at a time and that all of your classes are indeed separate. The whole that they add up to, though may be something truly grand to behold.

I hope this helps, but if not feel free to dismiss it as mindless banter. :cool:
Skeletalmage
08-07-05, 08:53 PM Ok, I'm with you on most of this, but let me make sure I understand something.

Assume I've made it to Fighter4, and I've maxed out all my HP rolls so far. I have 48HP. I just level up and choose Wizard1. I roll 1d4 (add my +2 bonus) and add it in to the total (treating this level only as pure wizard). If I max that out it's 54. Correct?

Now when it comes to this...

Fighter1/Wizard9/EldritchKnight10

I know that the BAB will be 1+4+10=15 and that it'll have a caster level of 9+9=18. Fort save would be 2+3+7=12. Reflex would be 0+3+3=6. Will would be 0+6+3=9. HP would be 10(max at 1st level)+9d4+10d6. I think you get the idea.

The 9+9-18 is for 9th in Wizard and 9th in EKnight. Correct? As in effective spellcaster level.

On a side note. I did download PCGen and put in all this chars basic stats equiped him similarly, etc...but it said I had 13 HP to start. eh????
slade_caizer
08-07-05, 09:01 PM Ok, I'm with you on most of this, but let me make sure I understand something.

Assume I've made it to Fighter4, and I've maxed out all my HP rolls so far. I have 48HP. I just level up and choose Wizard1. I roll 1d4 (add my +2 bonus) and add it in to the total (treating this level only as pure wizard). If I max that out it's 54. Correct?

Now when it comes to this...

The 9+9=18 is for 9th in Wizard and 9th in EKnight. Correct? As in effective spellcaster level.

On a side note. I did download PCGen and put in all this chars basic stats equiped him similarly, etc...but it said I had 13 HP to start. eh????

Yes, the HP is absolutely right.

Yes, you understand my calculation of caster level correctly. You will know the same spells as a Wizard 18 (plus whatever you scribe into your book from other sources) and will be able to cast the same number of spells per day as the same (be sure to include bonus spells due to high Int as you've done before). The math may seem odd, but that's because 10 levels of Eldritch Knight only gives you 9 caster levels (it skips the 1st level). I just realized I don't know what books you may or may not have. I hope that clears things up.

For the HP on PCGen...I'm not sure why that is. If he's a 1st level Fighter that'd be 10+Con. I think you said your Con was 15 (a +2 bonus), so it should total 12. Could you have entered a 16 in the place of Con and perhaps have put the 15 in another stat by mistake?
Skeletalmage
08-07-05, 09:04 PM I have 3.5 PHB, DMG, and MM. I think when I started the char and I was +ing the stats I overshot by one and had to - one. That might have thrown it off.

Thanks to all who have answered here. I greatly appreciate the help. I may call on you again at some point.

:)

I adjusted the char sheet to represent him purely as a Fighter1. I think you're right. Taking it one level at a time will be easier.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Skeletalmage 08-07-05, 04:06 PM	Hey guys. For the first time ever, I am looking at playing a multiclassed character, but I do not fully comprehend the section on this in the manuals. What I want to do is start out as a 1/1 fighter/magicuser. Here are my questions: 1) Do I HAVE to start out as one or the other, choosing to pick the remaining class at level up? 2) How are bonuses handled? If class A get a +1 bonus and class B get's a +2 to the same, is it cummulative (+3)? I may have more questions later. If somebody can answer these for me, or point me to a clear resource, I'd appreciate it.
StormCrow42 08-07-05, 04:18 PM	The rules for multiclassing are on pages 59-60 of the PHB, I'd recommend reading them closely. The basics of it are that at each level you can choose whatever class you want to gain a level in (subject to meeting the qualifications and GM approval of course). You then gain all the abilities of the class level you've just taken (starting from level 1 for each class). A 4th level character with 2 levels each in rogue and fighter (for instance) would have all the abilities listed for a 2nd level fighter and a 2nd level rogue. Saving throw bonuses and your base attack bonus (BAB) are added together, such a character would have a BAB of +3 and saving throw bonuses of +3/+3/+0 respectively. If you're starting at 1st level, yes you can only have one class, you can pick up the second one at level 2.
Skeletalmage 08-07-05, 04:21 PM	Much thanks! Your BAB example, and that I must start out as single class, is exactly what I wanted to know. :)
Skeletalmage 08-07-05, 05:50 PM	Sorry to double, but...can somebody view this and see if I got it right? Keep in mind that I set it up as if it were already a mc char, even though I know it isn't. I did this to help me visualize the direction it needs to go. http://ragingpenguin.com/lorenzo.txt Thanks in advance.
Borris 08-07-05, 07:07 PM	I hope you're aware that abilities other than Intelligence will not grant you bonus spells. Well, your hp should be 12, since you get max (10) at 1st-level plus your Con modifier (2). Since you're human, you get an extra skill point per level. As a fighter with +3 Int modifier, you should be able to max 6 skills, not just 5. Your columns for saves and attack bonus are misleading. The +2/+3/+3 to saves, for example, comes from your ability modifiers, not your fighter levels. You probably shouldn't wear armor if you intend to take a level of wizard next. A 40% casting failure is horrible for a spellcaster. While we're at it, why are you using a short sword? Since you can afford one and are proficient with it, why not go for a longsword? On average, it deals 1 more points of damage per hit than a short sword.
StormCrow42 08-07-05, 07:35 PM	Another useful option if you're going to use a computer to generate your character sheet is to use pcgen (http://pcgen.sourceforge.net) , which makes getting all of the numerical value trivial (and also produces a nifty looking character sheet). It comes set up with all of the information included in the SRD (basically almost everything from the PHB, DMG, and MM) and is easy to expand (either by entering your own info, or by purchasing data sets from Code Monkey Publishing (http://www.codemonkeypublishing.com/))
Skeletalmage 08-07-05, 07:45 PM	I hope you're aware that abilities other than Intelligence will not grant you bonus spells. Yes, I just listed the whole lot anyway. Well, your hp should be 12, since you get max (10) at 1st-level plus your Con modifier (2). Since you're human, you get an extra skill point per level. As a fighter with +3 Int modifier, you should be able to max 6 skills, not just 5. Thanks, I missed that. I'll have to re-read some things then. Your columns for saves and attack bonus are misleading. The +2/+3/+3 to saves, for example, comes from your ability modifiers, not your fighter levels. For the attach section, don't fighters and wizards each have different base attack bonuses? This is kinda what my first question in this thread was about. The way I understood it was that they are cumulative. Given the following for fighter based on my modifiers: BAB: +1 MAB: +3 RAB: +3 Then when I get my first level in Wizard, I add those as well? This is still a grey area to me... You probably shouldn't wear armor if you intend to take a level of wizard next. A 40% casting failure is horrible for a spellcaster. Yes, but it's been a while since I've played. I want to ensure I make it past 1st level. While we're at it, why are you using a short sword? Since you can afford one and are proficient with it, why not go for a longsword? On average, it deals 1 more points of damage per hit than a short sword. Again, saving money for the unforseen during first level. I've made some adjustments to the sheet. View again and see if it makes more sense. I would use an autogen thing, but I need to know how to do it myself, should I be somewhere with no pc and need a char.
slade_caizer 08-07-05, 08:30 PM	One thing that may help you keep all the math in order would be to completely ignore what Wizard does and does not have until you actually gain a level in it. It looked like your character is starting at 1st level (a common thing, I know). So, for example, it would be simpler and more accurate to have your class listed only as "Fighter". The reason for this is really basic but easy to overlook when multiclassing is viewed as a whole rather than step-by-step: You aren't a Wizard (yet). So for example your HD is only d10. Once you actually get a level of Wizard it will indeed be 1d10+1d4. Also, you are correct that once you do get into multiclassing you will add BAB from both classes, but again you don't appear to have gotten that far. In essence you just have a Human Fighter 1 with BAB 1 (Melee 4, Ranged 4), saves of 4/3/3, and HP 12. Of course you do get that bonuse human feat, your standard 1st level feat, and one for being a Fighter. I think I only saw 2 feats; there should be three. Your skills points would total [(2+3+1)x4] or 24. {In case that leaves questions my sources for the numbers were Fighter+Int+HumanBonus} Once you become a Wizard at 2nd level (or whenever you take it), you'll add 1d4+Con HP, +2 to your will save, +0 to your BAB, and another 6 skill points (again Wizard+Int+HumanBonus). The trick to keeping multiclassing simple is to remember that you are NOT combining classes. You are simply taking two (or more) different ones. The numbers are handled separately for each class and THEN totalled. At first it helps to take the building one level at a time. Eventually you may do things like I've seen some others (ppl on the CO board for example) and plan your build from the beginning and extrapolate all the way to 20th level. For example, say I chose to make a Fighter/Wizard as well (I commonly do). I'll do something like (sticking to core books for now) Fighter1/Wizard9/EldritchKnight10 I know that the BAB will be 1+4+10=15 and that it'll have a caster level of 9+9=18. Fort save would be 2+3+7=12. Reflex would be 0+3+3=6. Will would be 0+6+3=9. HP would be 10(max at 1st level)+9d4+10d6. I think you get the idea. Essentially it can be taken in all at once, but if you're just trying it out, remember to look at things a piece at a time and that all of your classes are indeed separate. The whole that they add up to, though may be something truly grand to behold. I hope this helps, but if not feel free to dismiss it as mindless banter. :cool:
Skeletalmage 08-07-05, 08:53 PM	Ok, I'm with you on most of this, but let me make sure I understand something. Assume I've made it to Fighter4, and I've maxed out all my HP rolls so far. I have 48HP. I just level up and choose Wizard1. I roll 1d4 (add my +2 bonus) and add it in to the total (treating this level only as pure wizard). If I max that out it's 54. Correct? Now when it comes to this... Fighter1/Wizard9/EldritchKnight10 I know that the BAB will be 1+4+10=15 and that it'll have a caster level of 9+9=18. Fort save would be 2+3+7=12. Reflex would be 0+3+3=6. Will would be 0+6+3=9. HP would be 10(max at 1st level)+9d4+10d6. I think you get the idea. The 9+9-18 is for 9th in Wizard and 9th in EKnight. Correct? As in effective spellcaster level. On a side note. I did download PCGen and put in all this chars basic stats equiped him similarly, etc...but it said I had 13 HP to start. eh????
slade_caizer 08-07-05, 09:01 PM	Ok, I'm with you on most of this, but let me make sure I understand something. Assume I've made it to Fighter4, and I've maxed out all my HP rolls so far. I have 48HP. I just level up and choose Wizard1. I roll 1d4 (add my +2 bonus) and add it in to the total (treating this level only as pure wizard). If I max that out it's 54. Correct? Now when it comes to this... The 9+9=18 is for 9th in Wizard and 9th in EKnight. Correct? As in effective spellcaster level. On a side note. I did download PCGen and put in all this chars basic stats equiped him similarly, etc...but it said I had 13 HP to start. eh???? Yes, the HP is absolutely right. Yes, you understand my calculation of caster level correctly. You will know the same spells as a Wizard 18 (plus whatever you scribe into your book from other sources) and will be able to cast the same number of spells per day as the same (be sure to include bonus spells due to high Int as you've done before). The math may seem odd, but that's because 10 levels of Eldritch Knight only gives you 9 caster levels (it skips the 1st level). I just realized I don't know what books you may or may not have. I hope that clears things up. For the HP on PCGen...I'm not sure why that is. If he's a 1st level Fighter that'd be 10+Con. I think you said your Con was 15 (a +2 bonus), so it should total 12. Could you have entered a 16 in the place of Con and perhaps have put the 15 in another stat by mistake?
Skeletalmage 08-07-05, 09:04 PM	I have 3.5 PHB, DMG, and MM. I think when I started the char and I was +ing the stats I overshot by one and had to - one. That might have thrown it off. Thanks to all who have answered here. I greatly appreciate the help. I may call on you again at some point. :) I adjusted the char sheet to represent him purely as a Fighter1. I think you're right. Taking it one level at a time will be easier.