Battle Wizard - a Wizard variant. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Battle Wizard - a Wizard variant. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
WombleHunter
09-15-05, 07:29 AM So, there's a lot of love for the Battle Sorcerer, originally from Unearthed Arcana and now (I believe) the SRD. But what about a prep-spells version, a kind of "adventuring wizard"? That's cool too. How about this:

Questing Wizard
HD: d8
BAB: Medium
Saves: Good Will, Poor Fort and Ref
Class skills: As Wizard
Skill Points: 2
Class Features:
Weapons and armour - Proficient with all simple weapons and one martial weapon of your choice. Proficient with light armour (but not shields).
Armoured Mage - Can cast class spells in light armour with no spell failure, as Bard ability.
Spells - Intelligence-based spells and a spellbook, as Wizard. Spells Per Day are as Wizard, less one spell per spell level (minimum 1).
Familiar - As Sorcerer.

So this is basically identical to the Battle Sorcerer but with the following changes: Wizard spells per day (minus 1/level) instead of Sorcerer spells per day. This is (IMO) balanced by: A spellbook, instead of spells known. Arguably, this is a great advantage over the Battle Sorcerer, which is why I: Didn't give it the Wizard Bonus Feats or Scribe Scroll. Didn't seem appropriate, somehow.So, what do you think? Underpowered? Too good? Balanced? Cool factor?

Personally, I would tend to think that if this is not balanced it will be because it is underpowered. Although the potential to know every spell under the sun is excellent, it doesn't fo you any good if you haven't got the spell slots to cast (let alone prepare) them. Possible alterations include 4 skill points and a slightly expanded or changed skill list, the return of the Wizard bonus feats or even a selection of different bonus feats. Maybe a free Spell Mastery every now and again.

EDIT: Edited to include Post 3 below.

EDIT 2: Changed name of class.
AresiaTheGod
09-15-05, 10:02 AM Pretty clean-cut, but I'd never play it. The battle sorceror worked because it casts spontaneously and can lose the one spell. Wizards can't.
CaoSlayer
09-15-05, 10:05 AM you could change the bonus feats into fighter feats.
no scribe scroll at level 1 neither.
WombleHunter
09-15-05, 10:26 AM Pretty clean-cut, but I'd never play it. The battle sorceror worked because it casts spontaneously and can lose the one spell. Wizards can't.
But this wizard enjoys the usual spells/skills synergy, and can know every spell ever. The Battle Sorcerer was almost crippled by its small number of spells known.

What would you suggest as a fix?
WombleHunter
09-15-05, 10:27 AM you could change the bonus feats into fighter feats.
no scribe scroll at level 1 neither.
I've noted the lack of Scribe Scroll.

Do you think it needs boosting, either with bonus feats or something else?
Maraxus
09-15-05, 10:35 AM Right, The battle sorcerers bigger problem is the 1 spell less known, not that per day. And I think that is compareable to no item creation/metamagic feats, if not worse. ... I think it is good that way. Maybe taking down the free learned spells per level from 2 to one might be a balancing point, but on top of that, this might be a bit over the top. Maybe if you dan't totally want to give away that feats, give him spell mastery on that levels.
CaoSlayer
09-15-05, 10:39 AM not really with the amount of spells he can know, spending in a feat craft magical weapons and armor can make himself every magical weapon or armor in the game.

Also it is fun how an eldritch knight isnt very better than this character, okey have sighly better BAB, but this battle wizard have good armor, better armor and +2 caster levels.
WombleHunter
09-15-05, 10:40 AM Right, The battle sorcerers bigger problem is the 1 spell less known, not that per day. And I think that is compareable to no item creation/metamagic feats, if not worse. ... I think it is good that way. Maybe taking down the free learned spells per level from 2 to one might be a balancing point, but on top of that, this might be a bit over the top. Maybe if you dan't totally want to give away that feats, give him spell mastery on that levels.
I don't really want to reduce the class's capacity for learning spells, since its 50% of what sets it apart from the Sorcerer anyway. I'm happy to leave the class without bonus feats (as my original post shows), but if the class needs boosting up, I'd put them back in.

I envision this as a kind of questing wizard, looking for more magic using his physical as well as mental prowess. In fact, I'm going to change the name of it to "Questing Wizard" right now.
WombleHunter
09-15-05, 10:46 AM Also it is fun how an eldritch knight isnt very better than this character, okey have sighly better BAB, but this battle wizard have good armor, better armor and +2 caster levels.
This is actually a pretty good point. The EK BAB is significantly better, but the HP are slightly worse. Assume that one of the caster levels lost isn't an inherent factor of the EK (you can qualify with a regional feat or racial traits, after all) - is the one less spell a balancing factor in the face of the extra CL (less the benefit of another bonus feat)?

Something to think about when making this comparison is that this Questing Wizard is likely to suffer from MAD and possibly spend all his spells buffing for the day just to keep up. With few spells/day he won't be able to pump out the minute or round-long buffs for each combat, either.
WombleHunter
09-16-05, 07:44 AM I just had another thought - this concept isn't so far away from the Hexblade. Basically you're pumping the spellcasting at the cost of BAB, (some) hp and the special abilities the HB gets. So, in comparison to the Hexblade, the Questing Wizard: Has vasty superior spellcasting power, with normal spell level advancement and an unlimited number of spells known. His Familiar is also 3 level's worth better (a minor issue). Has a significantly poorer BAB. Has slightly poorer HD. Lacks any of the special abilities the Hexblade gets - Mettle, bonuses to saves vs spells, curse and aura of unluck spring to mind. Doesn't get any of the (admittedly limited) Hexblade bonus feats.
LostTemplar
09-16-05, 10:29 AM Want a battle wizard? Why don't you check out complete arcana (3.5 Edition) and check out the warmage?

He seems relativly nice.
CaoSlayer
09-16-05, 10:49 AM Want a battle wizard? Why don't you check out complete arcana (3.5 Edition) and check out the warmage?

He seems relativly nice.

I guess because the warmage it is another sorcerer variant and it is totally focused in casting ofensive spells instead a more fighter/mage type.
WombleHunter
09-16-05, 10:53 AM Want a battle wizard? Why don't you check out complete arcana (3.5 Edition) and check out the warmage?

He seems relativly nice.
I have. This is a significantly different concept. I'm not being funny, but did you look at the original post? The Warmage is substantially different to what I've proposed there.
WombleHunter
09-16-05, 12:10 PM I just had ANOTHER thought - the Bard. How about a class that looks like the Bard, but loses: Bardic Music. d6 HD. Bardic Spell List. Spontanous casting and Spells Known.But gains: d8 HD. Wizard Spell List. Spellbook. Bonus feat every 5 levels, chosen from Wizard, Fighter lists, maybe with a few extras tacked in.This variant would keep the Lore class feature to represent the obscure-knowledge gathering aspect of the class (maybe only plus half class level plus Int) but lose the Familiar. It might need to lose some skill points or the bonus feats.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
WombleHunter 09-15-05, 07:29 AM	So, there's a lot of love for the Battle Sorcerer, originally from Unearthed Arcana and now (I believe) the SRD. But what about a prep-spells version, a kind of "adventuring wizard"? That's cool too. How about this: Questing Wizard HD: d8 BAB: Medium Saves: Good Will, Poor Fort and Ref Class skills: As Wizard Skill Points: 2 Class Features: Weapons and armour - Proficient with all simple weapons and one martial weapon of your choice. Proficient with light armour (but not shields). Armoured Mage - Can cast class spells in light armour with no spell failure, as Bard ability. Spells - Intelligence-based spells and a spellbook, as Wizard. Spells Per Day are as Wizard, less one spell per spell level (minimum 1). Familiar - As Sorcerer. So this is basically identical to the Battle Sorcerer but with the following changes: Wizard spells per day (minus 1/level) instead of Sorcerer spells per day. This is (IMO) balanced by: A spellbook, instead of spells known. Arguably, this is a great advantage over the Battle Sorcerer, which is why I: Didn't give it the Wizard Bonus Feats or Scribe Scroll. Didn't seem appropriate, somehow.So, what do you think? Underpowered? Too good? Balanced? Cool factor? Personally, I would tend to think that if this is not balanced it will be because it is underpowered. Although the potential to know every spell under the sun is excellent, it doesn't fo you any good if you haven't got the spell slots to cast (let alone prepare) them. Possible alterations include 4 skill points and a slightly expanded or changed skill list, the return of the Wizard bonus feats or even a selection of different bonus feats. Maybe a free Spell Mastery every now and again. EDIT: Edited to include Post 3 below. EDIT 2: Changed name of class.
AresiaTheGod 09-15-05, 10:02 AM	Pretty clean-cut, but I'd never play it. The battle sorceror worked because it casts spontaneously and can lose the one spell. Wizards can't.
CaoSlayer 09-15-05, 10:05 AM	you could change the bonus feats into fighter feats. no scribe scroll at level 1 neither.
WombleHunter 09-15-05, 10:26 AM	Pretty clean-cut, but I'd never play it. The battle sorceror worked because it casts spontaneously and can lose the one spell. Wizards can't. But this wizard enjoys the usual spells/skills synergy, and can know every spell ever. The Battle Sorcerer was almost crippled by its small number of spells known. What would you suggest as a fix?
WombleHunter 09-15-05, 10:27 AM	you could change the bonus feats into fighter feats. no scribe scroll at level 1 neither. I've noted the lack of Scribe Scroll. Do you think it needs boosting, either with bonus feats or something else?
Maraxus 09-15-05, 10:35 AM	Right, The battle sorcerers bigger problem is the 1 spell less known, not that per day. And I think that is compareable to no item creation/metamagic feats, if not worse. ... I think it is good that way. Maybe taking down the free learned spells per level from 2 to one might be a balancing point, but on top of that, this might be a bit over the top. Maybe if you dan't totally want to give away that feats, give him spell mastery on that levels.
CaoSlayer 09-15-05, 10:39 AM	not really with the amount of spells he can know, spending in a feat craft magical weapons and armor can make himself every magical weapon or armor in the game. Also it is fun how an eldritch knight isnt very better than this character, okey have sighly better BAB, but this battle wizard have good armor, better armor and +2 caster levels.
WombleHunter 09-15-05, 10:40 AM	Right, The battle sorcerers bigger problem is the 1 spell less known, not that per day. And I think that is compareable to no item creation/metamagic feats, if not worse. ... I think it is good that way. Maybe taking down the free learned spells per level from 2 to one might be a balancing point, but on top of that, this might be a bit over the top. Maybe if you dan't totally want to give away that feats, give him spell mastery on that levels. I don't really want to reduce the class's capacity for learning spells, since its 50% of what sets it apart from the Sorcerer anyway. I'm happy to leave the class without bonus feats (as my original post shows), but if the class needs boosting up, I'd put them back in. I envision this as a kind of questing wizard, looking for more magic using his physical as well as mental prowess. In fact, I'm going to change the name of it to "Questing Wizard" right now.
WombleHunter 09-15-05, 10:46 AM	Also it is fun how an eldritch knight isnt very better than this character, okey have sighly better BAB, but this battle wizard have good armor, better armor and +2 caster levels. This is actually a pretty good point. The EK BAB is significantly better, but the HP are slightly worse. Assume that one of the caster levels lost isn't an inherent factor of the EK (you can qualify with a regional feat or racial traits, after all) - is the one less spell a balancing factor in the face of the extra CL (less the benefit of another bonus feat)? Something to think about when making this comparison is that this Questing Wizard is likely to suffer from MAD and possibly spend all his spells buffing for the day just to keep up. With few spells/day he won't be able to pump out the minute or round-long buffs for each combat, either.
WombleHunter 09-16-05, 07:44 AM	I just had another thought - this concept isn't so far away from the Hexblade. Basically you're pumping the spellcasting at the cost of BAB, (some) hp and the special abilities the HB gets. So, in comparison to the Hexblade, the Questing Wizard: Has vasty superior spellcasting power, with normal spell level advancement and an unlimited number of spells known. His Familiar is also 3 level's worth better (a minor issue). Has a significantly poorer BAB. Has slightly poorer HD. Lacks any of the special abilities the Hexblade gets - Mettle, bonuses to saves vs spells, curse and aura of unluck spring to mind. Doesn't get any of the (admittedly limited) Hexblade bonus feats.
LostTemplar 09-16-05, 10:29 AM	Want a battle wizard? Why don't you check out complete arcana (3.5 Edition) and check out the warmage? He seems relativly nice.
CaoSlayer 09-16-05, 10:49 AM	Want a battle wizard? Why don't you check out complete arcana (3.5 Edition) and check out the warmage? He seems relativly nice. I guess because the warmage it is another sorcerer variant and it is totally focused in casting ofensive spells instead a more fighter/mage type.
WombleHunter 09-16-05, 10:53 AM	Want a battle wizard? Why don't you check out complete arcana (3.5 Edition) and check out the warmage? He seems relativly nice. I have. This is a significantly different concept. I'm not being funny, but did you look at the original post? The Warmage is substantially different to what I've proposed there.
WombleHunter 09-16-05, 12:10 PM	I just had ANOTHER thought - the Bard. How about a class that looks like the Bard, but loses: Bardic Music. d6 HD. Bardic Spell List. Spontanous casting and Spells Known.But gains: d8 HD. Wizard Spell List. Spellbook. Bonus feat every 5 levels, chosen from Wizard, Fighter lists, maybe with a few extras tacked in.This variant would keep the Lore class feature to represent the obscure-knowledge gathering aspect of the class (maybe only plus half class level plus Int) but lose the Familiar. It might need to lose some skill points or the bonus feats.