Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Savras 11-03-03, 04:01 PM	Battlerager- My Take (Based on Thibledorf Pwent, and, more closely, on Maulog Pwent, an NPC of mine) Dwarves love battle. They’re known for it. Some love it more than others. They revel in it. They live for it. They are, quite literaly, nuts for (and in) it. Dwarven barbarians are scary, no doubt. Dwarven Battleragers are “a bloody menace to themselves, anyone around them, and especially anything they percieve as hostile- including stray sheep, random trees and anyone who tries to steal their drinks” (said by an angry Aravilar of Evermeet, after being saved from Orcs and escorted by a group of Battleragers to safety). One thing all Battleragers share (other than fierce prowess and, most non-Battleragers claim, sucidal urges with advanced mental unstability) is their love for their drinks, and brewing powers. No one in his sane mind should try the Gutbuster. On the happy note, no one ever tries it sane twice- after the first time they usually go insane… Battleraeger tactics are fairly simple- charge. Any proper charge will include some singing of dwarven war songs, drinking songs, and\or any combination thereof. When a group charges, each sings whatever strikes his fancy, which causes a dreadful and frightening cacaphony, especially in the echoing Underdark. Unwilling to lose an opportunity to hit an enemy, when they charge, bellowing and screaming, they lauch an assortment of ranged weapons (usually hammers and axes, though more exotic things- like goblins- are not unheard off). When they charge, they try to get as deep as they can into the enemy lines, so they can get as many kills as possible. Another favourite tactic is the grapple. Though only the toughest (and most insane) battleragers start grappling in the middle of battle, they claim it is fun. Due to their spiked armours, they are the only ones that think so. Master grapplers, drinkers and fighters, battleragers have been known to turn the tide of battles… not always to a desirable side, granted, but turn the tide of battle nevertheless. HD: d12. Requirements: BAB: +6. Feats: Power Attack, Improved Overrun, Cleave, Intimidating Rage. Skills: Intimidate 9, Craft (Brew Bevarages) 9, Knowledge (Religion) 2, Preform (singing) 2. Race: Dwarf (Gold {rarely}, Shield). Special: Must be able to rage at least 2 per day. Note: dwarfs speak, as per consensus, with a scotish\irish accent, and I try to represent that in tha abilities names. BAB Fort Ref Will Abilities 1. +1 +2 +0 +0 Ye’re In Me Way!, Berserk 2. +2 +3 +1 +1 Take That!, Rage 1\day 3. +3 +3 +1 +1 What’s That Itch? (1\-) 4. +4 +4 +1 +1 Improved Grapple, Huggis! 5. +5 +4 +2 +2 What’s That Itch? (2\-) 6. +6 +5 +2 +2 Greater Rage, Rage 2\day 7. +7 +5 +2 +2 What’s That Itch? (3\-) 8. +8 +6 +3 +3 Ye Had It Comin’! 9. +9 + 6 +3 +3 What’s That Itch? (4\-) 10.+10 +7 +3 +3 Rage 3\day, Oooh, Now I’m (Angry)! Skills: As brb. Weapon and Armour Proficiency: All martial and simple, light medium and heavy. Berserk: When going on a rage, a Battlerager must kill at least (11-class level) creatures or he must pass a Will save (DC 20) to leave the rage. Ye’re In Me Way!: When overrunning an opponent, a Battlerager of 1st level or above can make an AoO against him if he gets prone. This must be done with an unarmed attack, armour spikes or any weapon that is NOT used to attack someone else in the round. For instance, Maulog spots a group of orcs. Since he is alone and they are about thirty, he takes the only logical decision- which is to charge. Raging, Maulog decides to attack Stupis Orc in the second line, running over an orc in the first line. The poor orc is surprised and falls beneath Maulogs boots, and is hit by Maulog’s urgosh (the AoO) while Maulog impales his target on his Spiked Helmet. Maulog could not use his Urgosh against both targets, though he could use Unarmed attacks or armour spikes against both. Take That!: There is no point wasting time, now is there? Especially not in combat. When charging, as a free action, a battlerager may throw a throwing weapon at his enemies (one enemy! This is only one attack) at a –10 penalty to his AB. The rest of the charge proceds as usual. This ability is gained at second level. This attack does not gain the +2 to attack from charge. Rage: Add the specified amount to the times per day a battlerager can rage. What’s That Itch?: While enraged, a battlerager can ignore damage, and soak hits that should have felled him. He gains the specified amount of DR, but only when in Rage. This DR does not stack with any other DR, including that from the barbarian class. Improved Grapple: A battlerager of 4th level gains the Improved Grapple feat for free, even if he doesn’t meet the prereq.s. Huggis!: When pinning someone, a battlerager of 4th level or above deals double damage in grapple. Greater Rage: As the Brb power (+6 to Str and Con during rage, +3 to Will saves during rage). Ye Had It Comin’!: Standing in the way of a charging battlerager is a sure way to get a one-way ticket for the afterlife. When charging, a battlerager deals double damage on all attacks (the throw, any AoOs and his charge). Oooh, Now I’m (Angry)!: At 10th level, a Battlerager’s bonuses to Strength and Constitution during his rage each increase to +8, and his morale bonus on Will saves increases to +4. The penalty to AC remains at –2. --------------------------------------- Any ideas for a more OOOmph-ish power at tenth are welcomed. Do I need to tone the whole thing down? Savras Edit: Was something unacceptable (appearantly), so I changed it to (Angry).
Savras 11-04-03, 04:15 AM	Come on, people! Savras
Savras 11-04-03, 04:17 AM	I hate stupid computers. Savras
IceBear13 11-04-03, 08:45 AM	Ye had it coming may be a bit overpowered. You could take care of this by introducing some drawback. My suggestion would be something based on the point that the Battle Rager is concentrating on his charge only. You could allow the enemy a Reflex save to simply go out of the way (as long as there is enough space and he sees the Rager coming, etc.) or an AC penalty while on the charge or the round thereafter or something like this. The other stuff seems fine to me though I´m not very good at balancing anyway.
Eltheynn 11-04-03, 09:56 AM	As it is now, you don't need more OOMPH... If anything, you need less... You could make it so the rager is so focused on his rage that he can only attack one enemy till the foe dies... But that would negate your Berserk ability... Hmm... You can always take off a feat and make it an addittional requirement, or not frontload the PrC. Isn't the penalty for "Take that!" a bit harsh? But I guess it's OK, anyway.... Why Knowledge (Raligion), Craft (Brew Beverages) and Perform (Sing)? They never make it into the class, or at least I can't see abilities related to them... And the Craft thing... Maybe Brew Potions? :P You can raise the BAB req to +7, maybe, to help balance.... Or make HD d10, to represent them being less healthy as the result of too much drink.... Just a few ideas, as I haven't got much time
IceBear13 11-04-03, 10:52 AM	Why Knowledge (Raligion), Craft (Brew Beverages) and Perform (Sing)? They never make it into the class, or at least I can't see abilities related to them... Now I have an idea. Increase the perform (singing) requirement and make this the drawback of your class. You can´t make a decent charge or fight without singing a fitting song. So to enter his Battlerager mood he´ll need to make a perform (singing) check against the ECL or the CR of the Target or something like this or he can´t use his powers (or at least not to their fullest). Lets say he looses the Ye had it coming and Now Im angry bonuses. Make it a difficult check (maybe an average 50% chance against an opponent of equal level) and allow him to keep on trying every round as a free action reducing the DC by one every round. So in most cases it will take a couple of rounds till he gets into the right mood... ...and being under the influence of homebrewn beverages to a set degree makes it easier reducing the check by another 2.
haste9 11-04-03, 11:07 AM	I like it as is.
Savras 11-04-03, 12:46 PM	Originally posted by Eltheynn Why Knowledge (Raligion), Craft (Brew Beverages) and Perform (Sing)? They never make it into the class, or at least I can't see abilities related to them... Well, Knoweldge (Religion) 'cause they are deeply religious, and all are (usually) followers of Haela Brightaxe. See the flavour in Races of Faerûn, it also talks about the singing and the brewing is, well, they have to brew the Gutbuster, no? I am making Intimidateing Rage a prerequites. Savras
Eltheynn 11-04-03, 01:25 PM	Originally posted by Savras Well, Knoweldge (Religion) 'cause they are deeply religious, and all are (usually) followers of Haela Brightaxe. See the flavour in Races of Faerûn, it also talks about the singing and the brewing is, well, they have to brew the Gutbuster, no? I am making Intimidateing Rage a prerequites. Savras OK, I see (man, you're gonna make me buy the FRCS if i want to review your work! :P)... But it still does not address my complaint about those requirements not making it into the classm with related abilities et al.... Not that it's a MUST, but I consider it nice... Though it's a drawback as it is now, isn' it? And I think those are cross-class for Barbarians, to which this class is aimed. It might turn out well balanced after all... So what if the rager does NOT have a throwing weapon? Or is not unarmed or doesn't have spikes.... It does really lok better now... I like it....
Delfedd 11-04-03, 01:27 PM	i'm scottish and irish, so i think its kinda insulting :(
Toptomcat 11-04-03, 01:39 PM	Ex-Monk with Mantis Leap, Flying Kick, Power Lunge and Power Critical (Unarmed) can already deal x4 damage on a given charge- or x16 depending on your interpretation. Upping it to x5 (x32) is something you need to be very, very careful with- WotC apparently hasn’t, just judging by the fact that this combo is available. Take out the charge-doubling.
Deladrion Garthin 11-04-03, 08:28 PM	I like it :) Pwent and the Gutbusters are my favorite characters in Salvatore's books, with the exception of Drizzt, of course ;) I say keep the double charge damage, I don't think it's overpowering at all. I had my own Battlerager PrC on the old boards, and it had the same ability, but called Gutbuster Lunge, hehe. I suggest requiring an alignment of non-lawful, but that's debatable... they're notoriously loyal and honorbound.
Savras 11-05-03, 10:02 AM	But it still does not address my complaint about those requirements not making it into the classm with related abilities et al Alas, you are correct. The Intimidating Rage was supposed to come from their singing, though now it is a requirement, it can do so still. So what if the rager does NOT have a throwing weapon? Or is not unarmed or doesn't have spikes.... If you go fishing, bring the fishing-rod. :) If he hasn't any throwing weapons\armour spikes\weapons, he's a wee bit on the dead side. :D Ex-Monk with Mantis Leap, Flying Kick, Power Lunge and Power Critical (Unarmed) can already deal x4 damage on a given charge- or x16 depending on your interpretation. Upping it to x5 (x32) is something you need to be very, very careful with- WotC apparently hasn’t, just judging by the fact that this combo is available. Take out the charge-doubling. If an ex-monk takes this class, I will sue you for flavourless min-max. Unless it is flavour full, but also quite powerful. Let me see: Dwarven Monk, level one- Power Attack. Level three, Cleave. Level six- Improved Overrun. Takes a level of Brb somewhere before 9th, and takes Extra Rage. He now quolifies for this PrC- after one more feat at 12th, Intimidating Rage. Or, he can take four levels (8-12) as Brb, taking Flying Kick in 9 (Intimidating Rage at 12), or even better- 6-10 Brb, Intimidating Rage in 9th, 10-20 Battlerager. Flying Kick at 12, Mantis Leap at never (monk level 7, so, let us redo things for Mantis Leap- monk 7, brb 4-11, no feats are changed). You do know Mantis leap only doubles Str damage, right? So, Flying Kick at 12, Mantis Leap at 15. Power Lunge (also doubles only Str bonus, not the whole thing) at 18, Improved Critical at 21 and Power Critical (which only allows you to declare one attack that hits as a threat, not doubling anything per-se) at 24. Epic. I find that balanced. If you drop the Mantis Leap and Power Lunge, you can get it about level 18. Compare to a Wiz\Sor with Time Stop, OK? I think it is balanced. If you want to be the best charger- OK. You won't be that good at other things, though. Deladrion Garthin- thank you. :) Always nice getting that kind of feedback. :) Delfedd- I am confuddled. What is insulting? All I said is that: A. Dwarves speak with a Scottish\Irish accent. B. Here is a PrC for dwarves. I never implied that either scotsmen or irishmen were insane hammer-hurling insanely-charging bearded killing-machines that can go berserk. Oh, and by the way, I happen to be a great fan of anything Irish or Scotish- been to both countries, love the accent, the weather, the food (only the breakfast! I don't eat Haggis), the music, the stories, and the people. So nothing to be insulted. :) Savras
Eltheynn 11-05-03, 10:17 AM	Originally posted by Savras Alas, you are correct. The Intimidating Rage was supposed to come from their singing, though now it is a requirement, it can do so still. If you go fishing, bring the fishing-rod. :) If he hasn't any throwing weapons\armour spikes\weapons, he's a wee bit on the dead side. :D OK Delfedd- I am confuddled. What is insulting? All I said is that: A. Dwarves speak with a Scottish\Irish accent. B. Here is a PrC for dwarves. Alas, not. You said that Dwarves ARE Scottish/Irish... I never implied that either scotsmen or irishmen were insane hammer-hurling insanely-charging bearded killing-machines that can go berserk. They aren't? :P Now, seriously (and yes, I know they're not berserks), you implied so by saying that dwarves are Scottish/Irish *points up to the above part of the post*. But if anything, they're Norse mythology thing, IIRC.
Savras 11-05-03, 11:15 AM	Originally posted by Eltheynn Alas, not. You said that Dwarves ARE Scottish/Irish... Crap. Changed it. Silly me. They aren't? :P Now, seriously (and yes, I know they're not berserks), you implied so by saying that dwarves are Scottish/Irish *points up to the above part of the post*. But if anything, they're Norse mythology thing, IIRC. The Norse myth indeed has dwarves in it. Anyway, I find it very wierd someone is insulted because I sais dwarves are Irish\Scottish, I never said scotsmen\irishmen were dwarves... But I changed it anyway, just in case. Savras
Jerks 11-05-03, 11:56 AM	Requirements: Right now you have a BAB of +6, and minimum skill ranks of 9, but 4 feats. The first two requirements suggests a minimum level of 6, but the latter suggests that a barbarian would have to be 9th level before picking up the class (if they straight classed as a barbarian). Intimidating Rage certainly adds flavor to the class, but none of their class abilities builds upon it so it can probably be dropped if you wanted to get it back down to 6th level. Damage Reduction: I don't think it is necessary to say that the classes DR doesn't stack with Barbarian DR. It's really a continuation of the class ability and I think it should stack. Throwing charge: I would say that the throwing a weapon during a charge should count as fighting with two weapons. With the thrown weapon being considered off-hand. So a -6 on the primary weapon and a -10 on the thrown weapon seems more fair. Of course if he throws a light weapon (i.e. throwing axes) then the penalty is -4/-8. I'd also allow the charge bonus on both attacks, so that's a net of -2 primary and -6 thrown weapon.
Savras 11-05-03, 12:24 PM	Originally posted by Jerks Requirements: Right now you have a BAB of +6, and minimum skill ranks of 9, but 4 feats. The first two requirements suggests a minimum level of 6, but the latter suggests that a barbarian would have to be 9th level before picking up the class (if they straight classed as a barbarian). Intimidating Rage certainly adds flavor to the class, but none of their class abilities builds upon it so it can probably be dropped if you wanted to get it back down to 6th level. Hmmm... true enough, but I think I'll leave it in, to help balance matters. Damage Reduction: I don't think it is necessary to say that the classes DR doesn't stack with Barbarian DR. It's really a continuation of the class ability and I think it should stack. The damage reduction is only when raging, but OK, I'll make it stackable. Throwing charge: I would say that the throwing a weapon during a charge should count as fighting with two weapons. With the thrown weapon being considered off-hand. So a -6 on the primary weapon and a -10 on the thrown weapon seems more fair. Of course if he throws a light weapon (i.e. throwing axes) then the penalty is -4/-8. I'd also allow the charge bonus on both attacks, so that's a net of -2 primary and -6 thrown weapon. No, thanks. Minuses to the other hand is what I'm trying to avoid here, hence the hefty minus to the throwing attack. It all comes from a kit in the 2ed Fighters Handbook (or somesuch), from a bit of flavour there... Thanks for the critique! Savras
haste9 11-05-03, 03:27 PM	[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jerks [B]Requirements: Right now you have a BAB of +6, and minimum skill ranks of 9, but 4 feats. The first two requirements suggests a minimum level of 6, but the latter suggests that a barbarian would have to be 9th level before picking up the class (if they straight classed as a barbarian). [QUOTE] I think a level dip into Fighter for one level is not out of the question here. One level and he can still get his skills as well as gain the feats for the first level of Brgr at 7th level. Fighter is favored class for dwarves.
ThibledorfPwent 12-16-03, 12:25 PM	Read the name:) I actually like Pwent better than Drizzt in the books, (not that i don't like Drizzt,) and i've been trying to find a balanced BattleRager PrC for months for my Dwarf/Fighter/Brb. I kinda think that u should add something more about the gutbuster drink. Somthing like "All Battleragers must keep with them several flasks of their home-made gutbuster brew at all times, and must down a hefy swig of it before being able to enter their rage (say, 6-8oz.) All non-battleragers who attempt to drink the gutbuster must make a DC 18 fort. save or be sickened for 2d6 rounds. While under the effects of the Gutbuster, a battlerager recieves +4 to all will and fort. saves (or even some other class who can down it, evidenced in some of the books by pwent recieving quite a few of the drow sleeping darts, which even one of could down Wulfgar, and at one point Pwent shared out the drink to Drizzt and Cattie-bri to allow them to also recieve some darts before falling.) [EDIT] You may also want to add something about sleeping in heavy armor giving no penalty. According to the books, Pwent NEVER took off his armor.
LoneTear 12-17-03, 03:22 AM	I think you should make the DR stakable with other types. After all why dosen' t it staks with baba' s one or with epic DR-enhancing feats? Perhaps you can balance this with some tweak here and there (reduce the Maximum gained DR by 1, or change the Ye Had It Comin’!, making it dealing double STRENGTH damage (instead of overall weapon damage wich can be horribly high)). Just some thought.
SkeeBah 12-17-03, 07:12 AM	I actually think this would fit better as an base class. IMHO, dwarves shouldn't be illiterate barbarians. Instead, this could be a somewhat more civilized, dwarf-oriented alternate barbarian. I love the idea, however.
ThibledorfPwent 12-17-03, 05:21 PM	You would call Pwent civilized?!?!? Maybe in some abstract way, since he actually is part of a sophisticated civilization, but i'm not quite sure if he can read:)
Jerks 12-17-03, 10:31 PM	I was flipping through the Complete Warriors book and I noticed the Frenzied Berserker. Maybe the Frenzied ability would work well within your prestige class. Check it out. It you're worried about illiterate dwarves, just make Literacy a requirement for the prestige class. If there was ever a type of character that screamed prestige class, it's a dwarven battlerager. Within the dwarven community I see the Dwarven Defender and Battleragers having a "friendly" rivalry. It seems that they would both think that their fighting styles are the pinnacle of dwarven martial arts. The Defenders would prize discipline and protection of the community while battle ragers would prize active defense and striking fear in the heart of the enemy.
ThibledorfPwent 12-18-03, 09:53 AM	Originally posted by Jerks I was flipping through the Complete Warriors book and I noticed the Frenzied Berserker. Maybe the Frenzied ability would work well within your prestige class. Check it out. While this may be a decent ability for the battlerager, i don't really like it. It makes it that you are forced to go into a frenzy when damaged, and must attack your friends once you run out of enemies. And even though this wouldn't be so uncharectoristic of a battlerager, it would definitely make it a much harder decision to take the class. No party wants someone who might turn against them.
Lek Goblin 12-21-03, 02:03 PM	What about the Frenzied Beserker in MotW, they're frenzy is different. Again a frenzy/raging type class thats easier to get into from the more disciplined ftr/bbn than bbn, which annoys me. Seriously consider moving one of te feats to a class ability because it doesn't really make sense that someone with fighter levels over barbarian should get into the class easier.
ThibledorfPwent 12-21-03, 03:17 PM	Actually, i didn't realize he was talking about the Warrior's Book FB, i haven't actually seen that one. My comment was meant for the MotW.
Eco-Mono 12-06-05, 12:59 AM	This topic bumped to save from thread purge. Savras r0x0rz.