Bear Warrior Confusion. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bear Warrior Confusion. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kn1ves
10-02-07, 11:42 AM A player in my group has decided to take the Bear Warrior PrC because he wants to be the big nasty tank of our group. I suggested he be a Frenzied berserker but alas he's ignoring my advice. We were reading through Bear Warrior last night and found an odd discrepency. When explaining how often one can shift into bear form it says as often as they can rage in a a day and there's no mention of a limitation in the chart but when describing the individual bears it gives a number of time per day that the character can change into them. So what's the verdict, at will or limited per day?
RobbyPants
10-02-07, 11:53 AM Well, I don't have my Complete Warrior handy, but as a general rule, I'd be inclined to go with whatever it says in the text of the ability. Discrepancies in the table, flavor text, or examples can be ignored. Unless corrected by the errata, the text in the ability always trumps other sources.

I checked the errata (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a), and it does clarify that it is limited based on the number of times of rage or frenzy, and to ignore the discrepancy.
Nephlite
10-02-07, 12:11 PM A player in my group has decided to take the Bear Warrior PrC because he wants to be the big nasty tank of our group. I suggested he be a Frenzied berserker but alas he's ignoring my advice. We were reading through Bear Warrior last night and found an odd discrepency. When explaining how often one can shift into bear form it says as often as they can rage in a a day and there's no mention of a limitation in the chart but when describing the individual bears it gives a number of time per day that the character can change into them. So what's the verdict, at will or limited per day?

You do realize Frenzied Berserkers kill their allies at the end of an encounter if frenzy does not wear off first. There is a Will save though...but not the greatest chances.
Also frenzy activates if any damage occurred. Even accident. Don't slap him on the back to congrat him: he'll frenzy.
dman11235
10-02-07, 12:58 PM Besides, bear warrior is a better tank than frenzied berserker. And you get a higher strength bonus. The con boost (+8) makes you the better tank. Especially with Fist of the Forest (CChamp, three levels, con to AC, your AC goes UP when you rage).
Pantorts
10-02-07, 03:28 PM The Bear Warrior can go into bear form everytime it rages. It is a misprint, and it is cleared up in the Complete Warrior errata.
Treantmonklvl20
10-02-07, 03:34 PM as dman points out - have your player check out Fist of the Forest from CC. It is practically perfect with any Bear Warrior build.

Nephlite: That would have to be one HARD slap on the back!;)

However, I do see your point (though the Grease spell can put the brakes on any character who is prohibited from making Balance checks-as is the case with a Frenzied Berserker in Frenzy.)
dman11235
10-02-07, 04:10 PM I'm currently playing a monk/barb/fist/bear/war shaper/warmind (only level 3 now, but at level 20.....) The monk levels help the unarmed strike damage (which you can use for iterative attacks in addition to your natural weapons), warshaper gets you reach, +4 str and con, immunity to crits, and fast healing, and war mind just filled the other three levels (and for expansion). You end up with an insane AC for a raging barbarian, and strength that's higher than frenzied berserker can get you. You only need the bear warrior levels for the strength thing though. Bear warrior brown bear is +16 (level 12), while frenzied berserker is only +14 (level 14 if human or a barbarian variant that gets you a bonus feat, otherwise level 17). And that's not even the highest bear form available.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kn1ves 10-02-07, 11:42 AM	A player in my group has decided to take the Bear Warrior PrC because he wants to be the big nasty tank of our group. I suggested he be a Frenzied berserker but alas he's ignoring my advice. We were reading through Bear Warrior last night and found an odd discrepency. When explaining how often one can shift into bear form it says as often as they can rage in a a day and there's no mention of a limitation in the chart but when describing the individual bears it gives a number of time per day that the character can change into them. So what's the verdict, at will or limited per day?
RobbyPants 10-02-07, 11:53 AM	Well, I don't have my Complete Warrior handy, but as a general rule, I'd be inclined to go with whatever it says in the text of the ability. Discrepancies in the table, flavor text, or examples can be ignored. Unless corrected by the errata, the text in the ability always trumps other sources. I checked the errata (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a), and it does clarify that it is limited based on the number of times of rage or frenzy, and to ignore the discrepancy.
Nephlite 10-02-07, 12:11 PM	A player in my group has decided to take the Bear Warrior PrC because he wants to be the big nasty tank of our group. I suggested he be a Frenzied berserker but alas he's ignoring my advice. We were reading through Bear Warrior last night and found an odd discrepency. When explaining how often one can shift into bear form it says as often as they can rage in a a day and there's no mention of a limitation in the chart but when describing the individual bears it gives a number of time per day that the character can change into them. So what's the verdict, at will or limited per day? You do realize Frenzied Berserkers kill their allies at the end of an encounter if frenzy does not wear off first. There is a Will save though...but not the greatest chances. Also frenzy activates if any damage occurred. Even accident. Don't slap him on the back to congrat him: he'll frenzy.
dman11235 10-02-07, 12:58 PM	Besides, bear warrior is a better tank than frenzied berserker. And you get a higher strength bonus. The con boost (+8) makes you the better tank. Especially with Fist of the Forest (CChamp, three levels, con to AC, your AC goes UP when you rage).
Pantorts 10-02-07, 03:28 PM	The Bear Warrior can go into bear form everytime it rages. It is a misprint, and it is cleared up in the Complete Warrior errata.
Treantmonklvl20 10-02-07, 03:34 PM	as dman points out - have your player check out Fist of the Forest from CC. It is practically perfect with any Bear Warrior build. Nephlite: That would have to be one HARD slap on the back!;) However, I do see your point (though the Grease spell can put the brakes on any character who is prohibited from making Balance checks-as is the case with a Frenzied Berserker in Frenzy.)
dman11235 10-02-07, 04:10 PM	I'm currently playing a monk/barb/fist/bear/war shaper/warmind (only level 3 now, but at level 20.....) The monk levels help the unarmed strike damage (which you can use for iterative attacks in addition to your natural weapons), warshaper gets you reach, +4 str and con, immunity to crits, and fast healing, and war mind just filled the other three levels (and for expansion). You end up with an insane AC for a raging barbarian, and strength that's higher than frenzied berserker can get you. You only need the bear warrior levels for the strength thing though. Bear warrior brown bear is +16 (level 12), while frenzied berserker is only +14 (level 14 if human or a barbarian variant that gets you a bonus feat, otherwise level 17). And that's not even the highest bear form available.