Bear Warrior Confusion [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bear Warrior Confusion [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Caelum
10-27-04, 09:03 AM The description of how many times a bear warrior can polymorph into a bear is confusing to me. It says in the opening paragraph of the ability that the only limit is the number of times the PC can rage/frenzy. Later in the same ability's description it says that they can turn into a black bear once per day, twice at 5th level (and once into a brown bear I think) and three times at 10th. Wha? Was there ever any clarification made on this?

Also, I read through a few threads but could never get a clear answer on the attack progression of the polymorphed PC. Does he adopt the bears normal number of attacks (assuming full round attack: Claw (Full BAB)/Claw (Full BAB)/Bite (-5) or do they attack with their own using claw damage (assuming just Barb/BW is 5 attacks)? I understand how much better the animals natural attacks are when it's a wiz or druid or such, but the barb seems to be losing something in the exchange.
edsonaoki
10-27-04, 09:23 AM I don't know the answer of the first question, but for the second question, the BW on bear form has the number of attacks of a bear, since you can't make iterative attacks with natural weapons.

The barbarian indeed loses something when he uses his bear form, but that's simply because the bonuses from Bear From are uncomparably greater than the bonuses from Rage (+20 STR bear last form x +6 STR mighty rage).

It may not be seem that great to be a BW, but the strenght of this class is not the damage output; it's their terrifying grappling abilities. You combine a barbarian's base attack and high STR score with a bear's natural weapons, Improved Grab ability and insane STR Adjustment to make the ultimate grappler.
Caelum
10-27-04, 09:36 AM WOW, I was thinking so entirely inside the box... now that you mention it, grappling does seem the way to go with the bear warrior.

I'm still concerned about the number of times I can 'morph though. Focusing on grappling feats but only being able to effectivly grapple once per day seems risky.

And thanks for the quick reply by the way, I'm trying to make up the character tonight so it's a great help.
Orion959
10-27-04, 12:12 PM Hey there.

IMO, the Bear Warrior is an amazing PrC. I am playing one in a campaign right now, and he is the grapple god!

He is 17th level currently, with the build being:

Half-Orc Paragon 3/Orc Paragon 3/Barb 1/Bear Warrior 10/Warshaper 3

I took the Feral template (with LA buyoff), and Vow of Poverty. With all the bonuses, my characters Strength is 44 (and that is in his normal form). [Our DM also allowed us a +d6 to any stat of our choice. I chose Strength, and rolled a 6.]

I took Multi-grab, and Greater Multi-grab, and let's just say, NOTHING can escape my hold! And the damage output is insane!

To add to the thread: we are in a very combat-oriented campaign, and my DM uses the '3 times/day rule' for the Bear Warrior. I am finding this is not a hindrance. I don't need to shift more than 3 times a day, and, as a super-Strength half-orc with full BAB, I can just tear a tree out of the ground, or pick up a rock, and improvised weapon them to death with Power Attack!

Even things with killer DR can't stand up to the onslaught of 4 attacks per round, with minimum damage being around 60 or so PER ATTACK!
Zolgar
10-27-04, 12:43 PM Hey there.

IMO, the Bear Warrior is an amazing PrC. I am playing one in a campaign right now, and he is the grapple god!

He is 17th level currently, with the build being:

Half-Orc Paragon 3/Orc Paragon 3/Barb 1/Bear Warrior 10/Warshaper 3

I took the Feral template (with LA buyoff), and Vow of Poverty. With all the bonuses, my characters Strength is 44 (and that is in his normal form). [Our DM also allowed us a +d6 to any stat of our choice. I chose Strength, and rolled a 6.]

I took Multi-grab, and Greater Multi-grab, and let's just say, NOTHING can escape my hold! And the damage output is insane!

To add to the thread: we are in a very combat-oriented campaign, and my DM uses the '3 times/day rule' for the Bear Warrior. I am finding this is not a hindrance. I don't need to shift more than 3 times a day, and, as a super-Strength half-orc with full BAB, I can just tear a tree out of the ground, or pick up a rock, and improvised weapon them to death with Power Attack!

Even things with killer DR can't stand up to the onslaught of 4 attacks per round, with minimum damage being around 60 or so PER ATTACK!

Oh great, just what we need, another example of how to break a class beyond all recognition..

And another tainting mark on Vow of Poverty.. *grumbles*
Dead Orc
10-27-04, 02:14 PM If bear warrior stats replace those of rage and frenzy would you double them if you were a bear warrior FB, once for the stat replacement of rage and once for the stat replacement of frenzy? That would be sweet...with the improved power attack 3:1......dire bear grappler frenzy rager.
hat
12-08-04, 08:42 PM If bear warrior stats replace those of rage and frenzy would you double them if you were a bear warrior FB, once for the stat replacement of rage and once for the stat replacement of frenzy? That would be sweet...with the improved power attack 3:1......dire bear grappler frenzy rager.

:rolleyes: I don't think so...do you? :nonono:
Egres
12-09-04, 07:28 AM The description of how many times a bear warrior can polymorph into a bear is confusing to me. It says in the opening paragraph of the ability that the only limit is the number of times the PC can rage/frenzy. Later in the same ability's description it says that they can turn into a black bear once per day, twice at 5th level (and once into a brown bear I think) and three times at 10th. Wha? Was there ever any clarification made on this?
Easy

Imagine a Fighter/Barbraian with only one level as Barbarian.

Once gained the 5th level of this PrC he could use his Bear form 2 times per day, but he cannot use his Rage more than once, and thus he can't use his Bear form more than once.

Also, I read through a few threads but could never get a clear answer on the attack progression of the polymorphed PC. Does he adopt the bears normal number of attacks (assuming full round attack: Claw (Full BAB)/Claw (Full BAB)/Bite (-5) or do they attack with their own using claw damage (assuming just Barb/BW is 5 attacks)? I understand how much better the animals natural attacks are when it's a wiz or druid or such, but the barb seems to be losing something in the exchange.
He uses the Bear's attack progression, cause he's using Natural Weapons.

One bite, two claws, no matter how high is his BAB.
CaoSlayer
12-09-04, 01:44 PM ummm, but still I remember reading in masters of the wild a weapon enchantment that allows you to hold this weapon ever if your anatomy isnt designed for that (included the imagen of an owl using a bow).
Egres
12-09-04, 03:24 PM ummm, but still I remember reading in masters of the wild a weapon enchantment that allows you to hold this weapon ever if your anatomy isnt designed for that (included the imagen of an owl using a bow).
Then?
Zsasz_Diedne
12-09-04, 05:06 PM There is a key word in the description that clarifies (and hopefully answers) the question (emphasis mine:
"Bear Form: A bear warrior can transform into a bear (similar to a polymorph spell) while in a rage or frenzy."

Meaning you have the option to transform while raging/have to be raging to transform. So yes, at 10th level you can assume the form three times a day, but if you can only rage/frenzy two times a day or less, then you are limited by that. Hope that clears it up some, they don't always word themselves as good as they could/should in the splatbooks.

And my particular fave for this build:
Barb 5/Fighter 2/Bear Warrior 5/Frenzied Berserker 6/Warshaper 2
hat
12-09-04, 05:33 PM There is a key word in the description that clarifies (and hopefully answers) the question (emphasis mine:
"Bear Form: A bear warrior can transform into a bear (similar to a polymorph spell) while in a rage or frenzy."

Meaning you have the option to transform while raging/have to be raging to transform. So yes, at 10th level you can assume the form three times a day, but if you can only rage/frenzy two times a day or less, then you are limited by that. Hope that clears it up some, they don't always word themselves as good as they could/should in the splatbooks.

And my particular fave for this build:
Barb 5/Fighter 2/Bear Warrior 5/Frenzied Berserker 6/Warshaper 2

The wording is a mistake and a straight copy from the OA Bear Warrior.

1 When raging you have the ability to take on bear form.

2 The amount of times you can take on bear form is limited by the amount of times you can rage (this is conceptually obvious...see point one).

You cannot take a bear form independently of your rage. However, you can rage without taking bear form.

Ignore the wording (such as 2/day etc.) I have a print out of an official answer saying basically what I have said. I shall endeavour to find it. I think it was discussed by the writers of CW on here somewhere.
Ancient Wyrm
12-09-04, 06:29 PM There's another thread going about exactly this subject... can we choose one or the other, please?

The book would appear to contradict itself, saying both "His only limit on the number of times per day he can assume bear form is the number of times he enters a rage..." and "Any bear warrior can assume the form of a black bear once per day." However, I'm going to get semantic here and say that the second quote, read as written, is still true even if the first one is; it doesn't say he can only enter bear form once per day, does it? :D

More seriously, just a general reading of the ability leads me to believe that it's intended to simply replace the rage; therefore, the first quote makes sense. I'm also inclined to believe in the first quote because the old bear warrior in Oriental Adventures did have a daily limit; it seems more likely to me that the authors updated the ability, but not completely, than that they introduced a new line of text, and changed the table to be consistent with this text, without intending to do so.
hat
12-09-04, 06:34 PM There's another thread going about exactly this subject... can we choose one or the other, please?

Yeah I'm posting in that thread as well.

Keeping it to one would be good. :rolleyes:
CaoSlayer
12-10-04, 04:37 AM Then?

grab a great axe and then you get 1.5 your stupidly high str and you can make interative attacks if desired. (and the bite attack because it is a secondary one)
Egres
12-10-04, 06:21 AM grab a great axe and then you get 1.5 your stupidly high str and you can make interative attacks if desired. (and the bite attack because it is a secondary one)
Right.

But this doesn't change the fact that if you are unarmed you must follow the Bear attack routine, unless you decide to attack with Unarmed Strikes.
CaoSlayer
12-10-04, 11:47 AM I posted this weapon just as an alternative instead of using just your natural weapons...
Ancient Wyrm
12-10-04, 04:29 PM The other problem with the bear warrior is that all your magic items are absorbed into your new form and become nonfunctional. Bye, bye, belt of giant Strength. Bye, bye, cloak of resistance. True, there is the wilding clasp (RAW it only works for wild shape but using it for bear warriors isn't too big a stretch IMHO), but even that says nothing about resizing the item; I'd like to see a warrior big enough around that his belt didn't snap when he turned into a freakin' huge bear.
hat
12-10-04, 05:58 PM grab a great axe and then you get 1.5 your stupidly high str and you can make interative attacks if desired. (and the bite attack because it is a secondary one)

I'm pretty sure bears can't just 'grab' a great axe and start swinging. You know,the whole paws and a lack of hands thing gets in the way. ;)
Zsasz_Diedne
12-10-04, 08:42 PM The wording is a mistake and a straight copy from the OA Bear Warrior.

I realize it's a copy of the OA PrC, whether or not their wording was mistaken or an intentional change I will leave to the erratta, until then I read it as I explained it.

1 When raging you have the ability to take on bear form.

Yep, said as much.

2 The amount of times you can take on bear form is limited by the amount of times you can rage (this is conceptually obvious...see point one).

Yep, said that too. By the wording however, you can run out of uses of bear form per day and still have rages left.

You cannot take a bear form independently of your rage. However, you can rage without taking bear form.

Never said you could, pretty much said that too.

Ignore the wording (such as 2/day etc.) I have a print out of an official answer saying basically what I have said. I shall endeavour to find it. I think it was discussed by the writers of CW on here somewhere.

Whether or not their wording was mistaken or an intentional change I will leave to the erratta(as if your answer was from cust serv, I pile a heap of salt on it), until then I read it as I explained it, though it would certainly be nice to have the increased transformations via feats and multiclassing.
hat
12-11-04, 03:50 AM I realize it's a copy of the OA PrC, whether or not their wording was mistaken or an intentional change I will leave to the erratta, until then I read it as I explained it.

Yep, said as much.

Yep, said that too. By the wording however, you can run out of uses of bear form per day and still have rages left.

Never said you could, pretty much said that too.

Whether or not their wording was mistaken or an intentional change I will leave to the erratta(as if your answer was from cust serv, I pile a heap of salt on it), until then I read it as I explained it, though it would certainly be nice to have the increased transformations via feats and multiclassing.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on some points until there is an official answer. I am sure I have seen one on here already.

To whomever is running this rock show: Hurry up with the eratta already.
CaoSlayer
12-13-04, 03:13 AM I'm pretty sure bears can't just 'grab' a great axe and start swinging. You know,the whole paws and a lack of hands thing gets in the way. ;)

I know, I know... but all this came from a previous post from mine where I say that there is a weapon enchament in masters of the wild that allows to use the weapon to any creature with limbs.
RPGhaulsass
12-13-04, 08:34 AM I was thinking of a Monk5/Shou Disciple5/Singh Rager4/Bear Warrior6 build, focusing on Impr. Trip & Grapple and possibly Great Throw, plus unarmed strikes.

Would I be able to do my unarmed strikes and flurry, then attack with claws and a bite? Unarmed strikes can be headbutts as well as kicks, and the claws and bite ARE different thingies... Does it seem reasonable?:P
CaoSlayer
12-13-04, 09:49 AM Would I be able to do my unarmed strikes and flurry, then attack with claws and a bite? Unarmed strikes can be headbutts as well as kicks, and the claws and bite ARE different thingies... Does it seem reasonable?:P

usually unarmed attacks needs to use all your limbs, so you cant use the claws...

in the other hand, the bite it is a diferent sigh and there is the rule that secondary natural attacks (those that are -5 to hit and half str) can be combined with any kind of attack always that there is a full round attack...

I can remember that a minutaur can use this gore attack in addition to the axe attacks.
Cunning Gnome
12-13-04, 12:22 PM I may have missed something but i dont think u could get levels in monk and the ability to rage needed for bear warrior as barbarians carnt be lawful. Although u could with half orc paragon. ;) not sure what singh rager is :confused: i asume this lets u rage without being chaotic.
RPGhaulsass
12-13-04, 05:31 PM Singh Rager gives you the ability to perform a Ki Frenzy (same as Rage in any way) 3/day + Pounce, meaning you can do a full attack action after a charge.

So with Monk levels, Shou Disciple levels, Singh Rager levels and Bear Warrior levels, you can Ki Frenzy and shapechange for a +16 strength, charge and do a full unarmed attack action (5 attacks, each doing 2d6+strength dmg) plus a bite attack (or claw, claw, bite if you'd rather do that).

Shou Disciple even gives 2 bonus feats, which can be Improved Trip or Grapple iirc...:)

Nice combo imo... A charge doing 10d6+40 damage (minimum), then a cute bite at the end for some extra damage. You could even trip the opponent or grapple him, then hack your way into his organs... Cuuuute:)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Caelum 10-27-04, 09:03 AM	The description of how many times a bear warrior can polymorph into a bear is confusing to me. It says in the opening paragraph of the ability that the only limit is the number of times the PC can rage/frenzy. Later in the same ability's description it says that they can turn into a black bear once per day, twice at 5th level (and once into a brown bear I think) and three times at 10th. Wha? Was there ever any clarification made on this? Also, I read through a few threads but could never get a clear answer on the attack progression of the polymorphed PC. Does he adopt the bears normal number of attacks (assuming full round attack: Claw (Full BAB)/Claw (Full BAB)/Bite (-5) or do they attack with their own using claw damage (assuming just Barb/BW is 5 attacks)? I understand how much better the animals natural attacks are when it's a wiz or druid or such, but the barb seems to be losing something in the exchange.
edsonaoki 10-27-04, 09:23 AM	I don't know the answer of the first question, but for the second question, the BW on bear form has the number of attacks of a bear, since you can't make iterative attacks with natural weapons. The barbarian indeed loses something when he uses his bear form, but that's simply because the bonuses from Bear From are uncomparably greater than the bonuses from Rage (+20 STR bear last form x +6 STR mighty rage). It may not be seem that great to be a BW, but the strenght of this class is not the damage output; it's their terrifying grappling abilities. You combine a barbarian's base attack and high STR score with a bear's natural weapons, Improved Grab ability and insane STR Adjustment to make the ultimate grappler.
Caelum 10-27-04, 09:36 AM	WOW, I was thinking so entirely inside the box... now that you mention it, grappling does seem the way to go with the bear warrior. I'm still concerned about the number of times I can 'morph though. Focusing on grappling feats but only being able to effectivly grapple once per day seems risky. And thanks for the quick reply by the way, I'm trying to make up the character tonight so it's a great help.
Orion959 10-27-04, 12:12 PM	Hey there. IMO, the Bear Warrior is an amazing PrC. I am playing one in a campaign right now, and he is the grapple god! He is 17th level currently, with the build being: Half-Orc Paragon 3/Orc Paragon 3/Barb 1/Bear Warrior 10/Warshaper 3 I took the Feral template (with LA buyoff), and Vow of Poverty. With all the bonuses, my characters Strength is 44 (and that is in his normal form). [Our DM also allowed us a +d6 to any stat of our choice. I chose Strength, and rolled a 6.] I took Multi-grab, and Greater Multi-grab, and let's just say, NOTHING can escape my hold! And the damage output is insane! To add to the thread: we are in a very combat-oriented campaign, and my DM uses the '3 times/day rule' for the Bear Warrior. I am finding this is not a hindrance. I don't need to shift more than 3 times a day, and, as a super-Strength half-orc with full BAB, I can just tear a tree out of the ground, or pick up a rock, and improvised weapon them to death with Power Attack! Even things with killer DR can't stand up to the onslaught of 4 attacks per round, with minimum damage being around 60 or so PER ATTACK!
Zolgar 10-27-04, 12:43 PM	Hey there. IMO, the Bear Warrior is an amazing PrC. I am playing one in a campaign right now, and he is the grapple god! He is 17th level currently, with the build being: Half-Orc Paragon 3/Orc Paragon 3/Barb 1/Bear Warrior 10/Warshaper 3 I took the Feral template (with LA buyoff), and Vow of Poverty. With all the bonuses, my characters Strength is 44 (and that is in his normal form). [Our DM also allowed us a +d6 to any stat of our choice. I chose Strength, and rolled a 6.] I took Multi-grab, and Greater Multi-grab, and let's just say, NOTHING can escape my hold! And the damage output is insane! To add to the thread: we are in a very combat-oriented campaign, and my DM uses the '3 times/day rule' for the Bear Warrior. I am finding this is not a hindrance. I don't need to shift more than 3 times a day, and, as a super-Strength half-orc with full BAB, I can just tear a tree out of the ground, or pick up a rock, and improvised weapon them to death with Power Attack! Even things with killer DR can't stand up to the onslaught of 4 attacks per round, with minimum damage being around 60 or so PER ATTACK! Oh great, just what we need, another example of how to break a class beyond all recognition.. And another tainting mark on Vow of Poverty.. grumbles
Dead Orc 10-27-04, 02:14 PM	If bear warrior stats replace those of rage and frenzy would you double them if you were a bear warrior FB, once for the stat replacement of rage and once for the stat replacement of frenzy? That would be sweet...with the improved power attack 3:1......dire bear grappler frenzy rager.
hat 12-08-04, 08:42 PM	If bear warrior stats replace those of rage and frenzy would you double them if you were a bear warrior FB, once for the stat replacement of rage and once for the stat replacement of frenzy? That would be sweet...with the improved power attack 3:1......dire bear grappler frenzy rager. :rolleyes: I don't think so...do you? :nonono:
Egres 12-09-04, 07:28 AM	The description of how many times a bear warrior can polymorph into a bear is confusing to me. It says in the opening paragraph of the ability that the only limit is the number of times the PC can rage/frenzy. Later in the same ability's description it says that they can turn into a black bear once per day, twice at 5th level (and once into a brown bear I think) and three times at 10th. Wha? Was there ever any clarification made on this? Easy Imagine a Fighter/Barbraian with only one level as Barbarian. Once gained the 5th level of this PrC he could use his Bear form 2 times per day, but he cannot use his Rage more than once, and thus he can't use his Bear form more than once. Also, I read through a few threads but could never get a clear answer on the attack progression of the polymorphed PC. Does he adopt the bears normal number of attacks (assuming full round attack: Claw (Full BAB)/Claw (Full BAB)/Bite (-5) or do they attack with their own using claw damage (assuming just Barb/BW is 5 attacks)? I understand how much better the animals natural attacks are when it's a wiz or druid or such, but the barb seems to be losing something in the exchange. He uses the Bear's attack progression, cause he's using Natural Weapons. One bite, two claws, no matter how high is his BAB.
CaoSlayer 12-09-04, 01:44 PM	ummm, but still I remember reading in masters of the wild a weapon enchantment that allows you to hold this weapon ever if your anatomy isnt designed for that (included the imagen of an owl using a bow).
Egres 12-09-04, 03:24 PM	ummm, but still I remember reading in masters of the wild a weapon enchantment that allows you to hold this weapon ever if your anatomy isnt designed for that (included the imagen of an owl using a bow). Then?
Zsasz_Diedne 12-09-04, 05:06 PM	There is a key word in the description that clarifies (and hopefully answers) the question (emphasis mine: "Bear Form: A bear warrior can transform into a bear (similar to a polymorph spell) while in a rage or frenzy." Meaning you have the option to transform while raging/have to be raging to transform. So yes, at 10th level you can assume the form three times a day, but if you can only rage/frenzy two times a day or less, then you are limited by that. Hope that clears it up some, they don't always word themselves as good as they could/should in the splatbooks. And my particular fave for this build: Barb 5/Fighter 2/Bear Warrior 5/Frenzied Berserker 6/Warshaper 2
hat 12-09-04, 05:33 PM	There is a key word in the description that clarifies (and hopefully answers) the question (emphasis mine: "Bear Form: A bear warrior can transform into a bear (similar to a polymorph spell) while in a rage or frenzy." Meaning you have the option to transform while raging/have to be raging to transform. So yes, at 10th level you can assume the form three times a day, but if you can only rage/frenzy two times a day or less, then you are limited by that. Hope that clears it up some, they don't always word themselves as good as they could/should in the splatbooks. And my particular fave for this build: Barb 5/Fighter 2/Bear Warrior 5/Frenzied Berserker 6/Warshaper 2 The wording is a mistake and a straight copy from the OA Bear Warrior. 1 When raging you have the ability to take on bear form. 2 The amount of times you can take on bear form is limited by the amount of times you can rage (this is conceptually obvious...see point one). You cannot take a bear form independently of your rage. However, you can rage without taking bear form. Ignore the wording (such as 2/day etc.) I have a print out of an official answer saying basically what I have said. I shall endeavour to find it. I think it was discussed by the writers of CW on here somewhere.
Ancient Wyrm 12-09-04, 06:29 PM	There's another thread going about exactly this subject... can we choose one or the other, please? The book would appear to contradict itself, saying both "His only limit on the number of times per day he can assume bear form is the number of times he enters a rage..." and "Any bear warrior can assume the form of a black bear once per day." However, I'm going to get semantic here and say that the second quote, read as written, is still true even if the first one is; it doesn't say he can only enter bear form once per day, does it? :D More seriously, just a general reading of the ability leads me to believe that it's intended to simply replace the rage; therefore, the first quote makes sense. I'm also inclined to believe in the first quote because the old bear warrior in Oriental Adventures did have a daily limit; it seems more likely to me that the authors updated the ability, but not completely, than that they introduced a new line of text, and changed the table to be consistent with this text, without intending to do so.
hat 12-09-04, 06:34 PM	There's another thread going about exactly this subject... can we choose one or the other, please? Yeah I'm posting in that thread as well. Keeping it to one would be good. :rolleyes:
CaoSlayer 12-10-04, 04:37 AM	Then? grab a great axe and then you get 1.5 your stupidly high str and you can make interative attacks if desired. (and the bite attack because it is a secondary one)
Egres 12-10-04, 06:21 AM	grab a great axe and then you get 1.5 your stupidly high str and you can make interative attacks if desired. (and the bite attack because it is a secondary one) Right. But this doesn't change the fact that if you are unarmed you must follow the Bear attack routine, unless you decide to attack with Unarmed Strikes.
CaoSlayer 12-10-04, 11:47 AM	I posted this weapon just as an alternative instead of using just your natural weapons...
Ancient Wyrm 12-10-04, 04:29 PM	The other problem with the bear warrior is that all your magic items are absorbed into your new form and become nonfunctional. Bye, bye, belt of giant Strength. Bye, bye, cloak of resistance. True, there is the wilding clasp (RAW it only works for wild shape but using it for bear warriors isn't too big a stretch IMHO), but even that says nothing about resizing the item; I'd like to see a warrior big enough around that his belt didn't snap when he turned into a freakin' huge bear.
hat 12-10-04, 05:58 PM	grab a great axe and then you get 1.5 your stupidly high str and you can make interative attacks if desired. (and the bite attack because it is a secondary one) I'm pretty sure bears can't just 'grab' a great axe and start swinging. You know,the whole paws and a lack of hands thing gets in the way. ;)
Zsasz_Diedne 12-10-04, 08:42 PM	The wording is a mistake and a straight copy from the OA Bear Warrior. I realize it's a copy of the OA PrC, whether or not their wording was mistaken or an intentional change I will leave to the erratta, until then I read it as I explained it. 1 When raging you have the ability to take on bear form. Yep, said as much. 2 The amount of times you can take on bear form is limited by the amount of times you can rage (this is conceptually obvious...see point one). Yep, said that too. By the wording however, you can run out of uses of bear form per day and still have rages left. You cannot take a bear form independently of your rage. However, you can rage without taking bear form. Never said you could, pretty much said that too. Ignore the wording (such as 2/day etc.) I have a print out of an official answer saying basically what I have said. I shall endeavour to find it. I think it was discussed by the writers of CW on here somewhere. Whether or not their wording was mistaken or an intentional change I will leave to the erratta(as if your answer was from cust serv, I pile a heap of salt on it), until then I read it as I explained it, though it would certainly be nice to have the increased transformations via feats and multiclassing.
hat 12-11-04, 03:50 AM	I realize it's a copy of the OA PrC, whether or not their wording was mistaken or an intentional change I will leave to the erratta, until then I read it as I explained it. Yep, said as much. Yep, said that too. By the wording however, you can run out of uses of bear form per day and still have rages left. Never said you could, pretty much said that too. Whether or not their wording was mistaken or an intentional change I will leave to the erratta(as if your answer was from cust serv, I pile a heap of salt on it), until then I read it as I explained it, though it would certainly be nice to have the increased transformations via feats and multiclassing. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on some points until there is an official answer. I am sure I have seen one on here already. To whomever is running this rock show: Hurry up with the eratta already.
CaoSlayer 12-13-04, 03:13 AM	I'm pretty sure bears can't just 'grab' a great axe and start swinging. You know,the whole paws and a lack of hands thing gets in the way. ;) I know, I know... but all this came from a previous post from mine where I say that there is a weapon enchament in masters of the wild that allows to use the weapon to any creature with limbs.
RPGhaulsass 12-13-04, 08:34 AM	I was thinking of a Monk5/Shou Disciple5/Singh Rager4/Bear Warrior6 build, focusing on Impr. Trip & Grapple and possibly Great Throw, plus unarmed strikes. Would I be able to do my unarmed strikes and flurry, then attack with claws and a bite? Unarmed strikes can be headbutts as well as kicks, and the claws and bite ARE different thingies... Does it seem reasonable?:P
CaoSlayer 12-13-04, 09:49 AM	Would I be able to do my unarmed strikes and flurry, then attack with claws and a bite? Unarmed strikes can be headbutts as well as kicks, and the claws and bite ARE different thingies... Does it seem reasonable?:P usually unarmed attacks needs to use all your limbs, so you cant use the claws... in the other hand, the bite it is a diferent sigh and there is the rule that secondary natural attacks (those that are -5 to hit and half str) can be combined with any kind of attack always that there is a full round attack... I can remember that a minutaur can use this gore attack in addition to the axe attacks.
Cunning Gnome 12-13-04, 12:22 PM	I may have missed something but i dont think u could get levels in monk and the ability to rage needed for bear warrior as barbarians carnt be lawful. Although u could with half orc paragon. ;) not sure what singh rager is :confused: i asume this lets u rage without being chaotic.
RPGhaulsass 12-13-04, 05:31 PM	Singh Rager gives you the ability to perform a Ki Frenzy (same as Rage in any way) 3/day + Pounce, meaning you can do a full attack action after a charge. So with Monk levels, Shou Disciple levels, Singh Rager levels and Bear Warrior levels, you can Ki Frenzy and shapechange for a +16 strength, charge and do a full unarmed attack action (5 attacks, each doing 2d6+strength dmg) plus a bite attack (or claw, claw, bite if you'd rather do that). Shou Disciple even gives 2 bonus feats, which can be Improved Trip or Grapple iirc...:) Nice combo imo... A charge doing 10d6+40 damage (minimum), then a cute bite at the end for some extra damage. You could even trip the opponent or grapple him, then hack your way into his organs... Cuuuute:)