Post/Author/DateTime	Post
NightScreamer20 05-21-06, 12:51 PM	I am beating a dead horse here but really, how does this make sense? I mean a Druid can Wild Shape into an animal, and be proficient with its claws, its teeth, and tail, has learned to fly, knows how to keep creatures pinned with these new limbs, knows how to produce and spit or inject poisons, in fact knows how to run and full speed and be able to jump on a creature and use all its attacks on it... ...but it can't utilize its new forms heightened sense of smell or it's better vision? So we're saying it gets the animals tough hide or shell, but for those animals that have secondary effects (like the Horned Lizard from Sandstorm) from having spikes on their body, can't utilize them? You mean I can still squirt caustic blood from my eyes as a Bloodstriker, but my blood isn't really caustic when I'm hit? Wait so I can't hold my breath as long as a true Crocodile? Honestly... I don't get it, it makes no sense to me why I wouldn't be able to utilize the abilities, they are purely natural, and mostly passive, so... what's the deal Wizards?
dengarbountyhunter 05-21-06, 03:05 PM	Yes, I totally agree with you. For the first seven words of your post only, though.
NightScreamer20 05-21-06, 03:09 PM	Yes, I totally agree with you. For the first seven words of your post only, though. Thanks for the input... I'm looking for a 'logical' answer, not sarcasm. But thanks for playing.
Lalkin 05-21-06, 03:28 PM	I actually agree with this. I think there should be a way to use special abilities from your wildshape (I'm talking non PRC wildshape so they would just be extraordinary abilities). Balance-wise I don't feel that this would be unbalancing. When you can already use all of the extraordinary attacks of the creature being able to gain lowlight vision isn't that big of a deal. In fact right now wildshape is mostly an attack enhancer, I'd rather it be a utility enhancer personally. =) Maybe to balance it require a feat or something. Spend an extra wildshape use when changing form to gain special abilities. Something like that.
dengarbountyhunter 05-21-06, 05:01 PM	There are feats (mostly from Complete Divine, I think) that allow you to have animal-like benefits by spending wildshape uses for the day. For example, one feat allows you to spend one use of wildshape to gain blindsense for a limited time. It is not only possible to do so in wildshape, but also in normal form. As for getting ALL the special qualities of the animal that has been wildshaped into, I have never seen such thing. PS: Sorry for the un-constructive comment, but I hate dead horse beating.
Jackmojo 05-21-06, 05:15 PM	Enhance wildshape from the Spell Compendium is the solution to your boggle. Level 4 spell with various possible effects on your next use of wildshape one of which is gaining the forms (EX) qualities. Jack
travellersside 05-21-06, 05:20 PM	Enhance wildshape from the Spell Compendium is the solution to your boggle. Not really. The OP was asking why these things weren't automatically there in the first place, not how do you get them. After all, why turn into an owl? Low-light vision, surely. But it seems that you don't actually get this... The real answer to the question is that the entire shapechanging mechanism - no matter what the spell, ability or whatever is - just doesn't work. It needs to be thought out again from scratch. (Personally, and a gross over-simplification, I'm in favour of granting anything that would operate inside an Anti-magic field)
NightScreamer20 05-22-06, 12:00 AM	Thats just my thing, I think it should be at least a feat, but it also provides too much. It's kind of a toss up. I mean I just don't understand how it isn't a basic part of shapechanging mechanics. I haven't looked for te other posts on this because... well... I felt like ranting a bit to be honest, it was just frustrating because it seems like a total oversight. However... check the following. Natural Adaptaion [Wild] Allows you to assume the special qualities of animals. Prerequisites: Knowledge (Nature) 12 ranks, Wild Shape class feature Benefit: Whenever you assume the shape of an animal using your Wild Shape ability, you obtain the extraordinary special qualities of the form you take as well as their special attacks. Special: This feat only applies to animal forms you take in Wild Shape, and does not affect spells of abilities such as alternate form, change shape, or any polymorph spell. I was thinking to increase this to Knowledge (nature) 15, therefore putting it on par with the MoMF without stepping on its tos... so just tell me what you think is fair.
Lalkin 05-22-06, 12:15 AM	Natural Adaptaion [Wild] Allows you to assume the special qualities of animals. Prerequisites: Knowledge (Nature) 12 ranks, Wild Shape class feature Benefit: Whenever you assume the shape of an animal using your Wild Shape ability, you obtain the extraordinary special qualities of the form you take as well as their special attacks. Special: This feat only applies to animal forms you take in Wild Shape, and does not affect spells of abilities such as alternate form, change shape, or any polymorph spell. I was thinking to increase this to Knowledge (nature) 15, therefore putting it on par with the MoMF without stepping on its tos... so just tell me what you think is fair. It seems fine with me. (but I also think it is weird wildshape doens't grant it normally ;) ) If one thinks it is too powerful still making it take 2 wildshapes to do so might work. Then you'd have to decide if the abilities are worth the extra use per day....
LouSapphire 05-22-06, 03:24 AM	It's done primarily as a balance issue I think, although limiting it to only gaining the (ex) abilities of animals would be a solid feat choice and not over powering. The feat works the way it is, again I think it just needs to make clear that the abilities are only gained when in an "animal" form and not plant/elemental. Although follow on feats could happily grant you those abilities.
Khaibit_Ema_Neteru 05-22-06, 11:39 AM	I also hate that Wildshape is nothing but a combat buff....it really should be more of a utility/scouting/roleplaying thing...
NightScreamer20 05-22-06, 12:12 PM	Ya, that's the problem I have with it, my Druid is good at combat, sure, but really... I wanna take Wolf form to track something, or maybe a Shark form in water to smell out my opponents or get a feel for the area... maybe guiding my friends' ship/boat along. What's the point of becoming a cheetah if you can't Sprint? Or a Porpoise if you can't hold your breath for any longer than normal? It just seem unreasonable. Second, it already specified animal forms while in Wild Shape in the 'special' section of the Feat. - Scratch the part that was here-