Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GoofsterStud 08-04-04, 03:11 PM	We are playing a campaign starting at first level. This is my second attempt the first one was doing a high level campaign and I was all lost. The rolls I have are as followed for stats 18 18 17 16 12 14 I think they are pretty good rolls. I understand that in order for a paladin to even be good they have to have high stats. What Race makes the best Paladin I picked Paladin cause they have access to fun things without overwhelming me. But I at 1st level that doesn't matter. Where would you put his stats and what prestige class would your reccomend and at what level. Will the Paladin be good throught the game or are the weaker than fighters and such? What do you recommend for prestige classes and when should I take them (What level) Next question... Would you consider a Barbarian better? If so same questions for that... I hear clerics are the best but I think they might be to complicated for a newbie.. Your thoughts?
Thorak 08-04-04, 04:47 PM	If it were my paladin, I'd set the stats as such; Str - 18 Dex - 12 Con - 16 Int - 14 Wis - 17 Cha - 18 Strength is significantly better than pretty much anything else for a melee fighter. Charisma is oodles of goodness for a paladin, with many benefits. Good wis means your casting ability will be decent. Decent Con means your HP will be good. A +2 Int bonus is nice to offset the low number of skills a Paladin gets. And a Dex of 12, because there's Full Plate out there that only lets you get a +1 dex bonus. Which is one ability boost away, if you want the extra AC point. Though, you may want to switch Wis and Con, if you want more HP rather than better casting ability, to get the preferred stat one ability boost away from improving in bonus. As it stands, for boosts I'd hit dex first, then wis (or con, if you switch), then twice in strength, and whatever feels good for the last one. As for race, you probably don't want a Small race, because Paladins are combat-centered, and Small races get lesser damaging weapons and movement rates. Though they do get AC bonuses and attack bonuses, so YMMV. Beyond the size bit, all I would suggest is not a race with penalties to Str or Cha. Anything else will work fine. Really, anything will work dandy with those stats; these recommendations are just to tweak the most "oomph" out of the character, which isn't necessary to have fun. As for Barbarians; they're simpler, but also more one-sided. So it's a tradeoff. But the main issue with Paladins is their 'need' for 4 decent stats; Str, Cha, Wis, and Con. And you've got great stats for all of them. I put need in quotations because it's not necessary, just ideal to maximize their potential; my current character is a Paladin with a Cha of 12. Generally, for new folks, I strongly suggest sticking with a warrior class like paladins or barbarians. Just because, regardless of which class you play, you need to learn the combat system. And it's less overwhelming if that's all you're focusing on during combat, instead of also trying to keep track of spellcasting stuff.
J. Grenemyer 08-04-04, 04:52 PM	Hello, I agree with Thorak's placement of the stats ('cept I'd have Dex be 14 and Int 12). As for Prestege Classes, I can really only recommend what the Paladin player in my campaign has taken: Purple Dragon Knight (from the Player's Guide to Faerūn by Wizards of the Coast). Barbarians: I like Barbarians a lot. That said, I don't think they are necessarily better or worse for a beginning player. Good luck GoofsterStud! :D
MesaCraft 08-04-04, 06:51 PM	I also agree with stat placement. As far as PrC goes, there are a few that fit nicely with a Paladin. Knight of the Chalice; Cavalier; Justicar; Knight Protector; Purple Dragon Knight; Consecrated Harrier; Hospitaler. ALL of these allow you to advance as a Paladin after you have taken levels in these classes. The Shining Blade of Heironeous is a VERY good PrC that really fit into a Paladin's scheme. As far as Races go? Well, any race works really, some better then others obviously, but any race you choose will work if you play them right and have fun doing it. I myself like Humans and Halflings.
Steelgryphon 08-04-04, 08:06 PM	The Assimar from the MM +2 Wis/Con and some other nice abilitys. as for PrC's id suggest not taking one because for the 2nd time play s atright palidin maybe another base class maybe rouge to get a few sneak attk dice. In my game ive got a rouge barbarian.
Maelstrom2090 08-04-04, 08:18 PM	Isn't it a bit early to worry about prestige classes? they're supposed to be special and rare focuses for the skills your character has, not something to pick at level one. that seems sorta meta game-ish to me, picking out what prestige ur gonna be at level one. my first time playing, i'd pick a char and role play him and see how he fits in before i decide all this stuff for him down the road. You may not even like paladins and totally scrap him for a new character, wasting all this extra planning. plus, Stats are their to describe your character as how you want him to be, not to optimize the ultimate battle machine. So help me out here, shouldn't Goofster stud just pick something to play and play that out, instead of power gaming "what's best" and "what he can be later"?
Kaminton 08-04-04, 08:32 PM	Better check with your DM about those stats - he or she might freak. They're pretty high - I personally wouldn't accept that unless it was rolled right in front of me (and even then, in the interests of party balance I'd ask the player to re-roll... it's really tough to make something challenge a super-stat character without slaughtering adventurers with more normal stats)
Kaminton 08-04-04, 08:44 PM	Originally posted by Maelstrom2090 Isn't it a bit early to worry about prestige classes? they're supposed to be special and rare focuses for the skills your character has, not something to pick at level one. that seems sorta meta game-ish to me, picking out what prestige ur gonna be at level one. my first time playing, i'd pick a char and role play him and see how he fits in before i decide all this stuff for him down the road. You may not even like paladins and totally scrap him for a new character, wasting all this extra planning. plus, Stats are their to describe your character as how you want him to be, not to optimize the ultimate battle machine. So help me out here, shouldn't Goofster stud just pick something to play and play that out, instead of power gaming "what's best" and "what he can be later"? Nothing wrong with aiming for a prestige class at level 1 if they are tied to well-known organizations. It could be a childhood ambition, for example. Or in the case of the Knights of the Chalice, you're a probationary member (initiate rank, or whatever they call it) working towards full membership. However, aiming to join a secret organization is probably metagaming, at least until you meet them.
Maelstrom2090 08-04-04, 10:01 PM	Originally posted by Kaminton Nothing wrong with aiming for a prestige class at level 1 if they are tied to well-known organizations. It could be a childhood ambition, for example. Or in the case of the Knights of the Chalice, you're a probationary member (initiate rank, or whatever they call it) working towards full membership. However, aiming to join a secret organization is probably metagaming, at least until you meet them. now that you explain it like that, i suppose it does make sense. However, he shouldn't just "Take it at that level'. There should be special actions and maybe a whole quest for stuff like that. At least some roleplaying and a reason why he finally gets to join that makes a little bit of sense in character. Another question, however, is are the people ur playing with experienced or not? did u find an all new crew or play a new campaign with the pros? PrC's and compairing to other levels only make it more complicated for you and the DM, unless they've experienced it all before. And i still think the stats should describ how u want your character to be, so if you wanna limit one or two down a point or two in the intrest of fairness and roleplaying, thats really cool of your. remember its not a hack an slash ( though you can play it like that) it was first an adventure where you roleplay an alternate persona. as such, use your stats to describe who you play, not increase your chances of winning (though a tiny bit of that doesn't hurt either, especially later on):smirk: :smirk:
Callista 08-04-04, 10:40 PM	Yeah... you are seriously lucky to get that caliber of stats. If your DM doesn't like it, you might offer to drop one (or even both) of those 18s down a little lower. I don't think any of the core classes is too complicated for a newbie; just so long as you have access to a PHB (or the SRDs, in a pinch) and you're willing to spend a few hours (or a lot of hours) studying the rules, you'll be fine. Paladins are cool... to me, they work like a fighter/cleric hybrid, with severe alignment restrictions. You are going to want to be sure to role-play this character as well as you can (and be sure not to be too annoying to the players--characters are fine to annoy if their players are fine with it... because, let's face it, paladins are very prone to being annoying)... Anyway. Good luck!
fractal 08-05-04, 02:18 AM	Originally posted by Callista Paladins are cool... to me, they work like a fighter/cleric hybrid, with severe alignment restrictions. You are going to want to be sure to role-play this character as well as you can (and be sure not to be too annoying to the players--characters are fine to annoy if their players are fine with it... because, let's face it, paladins are very prone to being annoying)... Yeah, I pretty much agree with these sentiments. And, with stats like that, you can feel comfortable challenging stronger evil (and being more annoying) than you might otherwise get away with. Btw, I've found the feat (from CW) Extra Smiting to be very cool for a low level Paladin with high Charisma. You basically use the extra Smites for +4 to hit when you really need it. Once you get Turn Undead, Divine feats are likely to be pretty handy too. With regards to the stats, I agree (although I would put the 17 in Con), although I don't know why you would increase Dex to 13? (Unless you want Dodge or something.)
GoofsterStud 08-22-04, 11:37 PM	Originally posted by Kaminton Better check with your DM about those stats - he or she might freak. They're pretty high - I personally wouldn't accept that unless it was rolled right in front of me (and even then, in the interests of party balance I'd ask the player to re-roll... it's really tough to make something challenge a super-stat character without slaughtering adventurers with more normal stats) You were right so I rolled it in front of him my stats are now 18 18 18 17 15 11 Since I rolled it in front of him he said I can keep it. He grumbled a little but kept his word in front of everyone since he said (reroll them and you get what you roll now) I'm thinking about taking cleric and then prestige paladin from unearthed arcana... (what would you reccoment then)
Kaminton 08-23-04, 04:11 AM	Originally posted by GoofsterStud You were right so I rolled it in front of him my stats are now 18 18 18 17 15 11 Since I rolled it in front of him he said I can keep it. He grumbled a little but kept his word in front of everyone since he said (reroll them and you get what you roll now) I'm thinking about taking cleric and then prestige paladin from unearthed arcana... (what would you reccoment then) Ye flipping gods. You're like that one player in my campaign who almost always rolled high stats. The DM's gonna regret letting you keep those stats, mark my words - or he'll boost the others. Anyway, as a cleric taking the prestige paladin: Put two of the 18s in Wis and Cha. Stick the 11 in Dex, the 15 in Int (skill points are nice), and the 17 and 18 go into either Str or Con (I am assuming you'll want to melee alot). At level 4, boost that 17 to an 18 if you find yourself meleeing alot. You have to make a choice: boost your Cha, or boost your Wis. One helps your paladin abilities, the other helps your spellcasting. Again, much depends on how you want to play it. You don't really need the Dex that much - you'll be slow off the mark, and your reflex saves will be low, but: Divine Grace will add your Cha bonus to your saves. Reflex is the least important save because it's just damage - and you are a formidable healer. Your Fort and Will saves (the save-or-die types) will both be high. You can take improved initiative if you find yourself always going last, but I highly recommend the Divine feats (alot of them are keyed off your Cha modifier).
GoofsterStud 08-23-04, 01:37 PM	Again I want to point out that I will be in the desert so I don't know if I can wear heavy armor. There is 2 medium armor that would work... Should I still leave it that low? Unless someone knows I way arround that I'm always up for suggestions...
GoofsterStud 08-23-04, 01:48 PM	Here's my Idea Cleric/Prestige Palidan/Fist of Raziel (become a smiting maniac while raising my cleric spell levels) {Do Domain Spells level up this way, or how does that work?} I want to be the ultimate evil killing machine... With healing abilities. What's your thoughts on this combination guys? This is my first attempt at building my own character from the ground up. (Oops I meant to edit the other post to ad this)
Kaminton 08-23-04, 04:57 PM	Originally posted by GoofsterStud Here's my Idea Cleric/Prestige Palidan/Fist of Raziel (become a smiting maniac while raising my cleric spell levels) {Do Domain Spells level up this way, or how does that work?} I want to be the ultimate evil killing machine... With healing abilities. What's your thoughts on this combination guys? This is my first attempt at building my own character from the ground up. (Oops I meant to edit the other post to ad this) Oops, desert? Cast Endure Elements first thing every morning, then wear your heavy armor :D
GoofsterStud 08-23-04, 05:06 PM	What level spell is that and what do I have to do to make it last all day. Any suggestions on feats?
Kaminton 08-23-04, 06:57 PM	Endure Elements is a level 1 cleric spell that lasts 24 hours. So you can cast it right away :) Unless that desert is *really* hot, you should be fine - exist comfortably in conditions between -50 and 140 degrees Farenheit without having to make Fort saves due to the heat.
Kaminton 08-23-04, 07:02 PM	Originally posted by GoofsterStud Any suggestions on feats? If you want to be an ultimate evil smiting machine, take the divine feats (as a cleric you qualify at level 1) from Defenders of the Faith (reprinted in Complete Warrior). Extra smiting works too. You're probably not as interested in item creation or metamagic until high levels, so don't worry about it. The feats you should take depend on what domains you have. Have you decided on a deity (and what domains do they have)? You might want to take power attack, but I'm not sure what other combat feats would be appropriate.
GoofsterStud 08-24-04, 01:40 AM	Luck and Travel maybe Oghma??? suggestions?
Archangel 08-24-04, 05:18 AM	Are you new to D&D? What method did you use to roll stats? You do know that Paladin is LG and in addition restricted by his code? If you will not roleplay that class good you will lose all its abilities! Paladin is not just a fighter with cool abilities! Then if I am not mistaken Fist of Razriel is an exalted prestige class from Book of Exalted Deeds, and you know you need to be exalted to be in that prestige class? Being exalted is like being paladin*2!