Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Maxxim 01-18-07, 01:06 PM	I'm making a beguiler for one of my games. I'll be starting at level 6, which means there are a few decisions that I'm stuck on. He will be focused on battlefield control/backup. We have a rogue for search/spot/trapwork. Here's what I have so far: Race: Gray Elf (for the +2 int, I was going with Gnome for the +1 illusion DC, but I rated the 2 int higher) Stats: STR 6 DEX 12 CON 14 INT 20 (at level 1, as of lvl 4 will be 21) WIS 10 CHA 12 First: I get 3 feats. I had considered improved initiative, spell focus (enchant) and spell focus (illusion). But I can't decide about Spellcasting Prodigy. Do I substitute it for one of those? Do I have enough INT that I'll get sufficient bonus spells, so I should stick with increasing the DC more? I'm also unsure on Imp Init. I should try to go first so I can get opponents flat-footed for the higher DC and start controlling the battle asap, but I'm still not sure on the feat. Second: I can't settle on a spell for advanced learning. Here are my choices and reasoning: 1. Inhibit (force enemy to delay 1 round): great for my battle control plans 2. Shock & Awe (flat footed enemies get -10 init): good for when I sneak up and surprise a group of enemies with a spell. 3. Power Word Pain: great damage spell for this level. I see alot of people say PW: Pain, but I'm not that concerned with dealing damage, we have a wizard, duskblade, rogue/fighter, and a cleric so damage is fine. Of those choices, what does everyone like better? Or again, am I missing a nice spell somewhere?
Repeekluos 01-18-07, 01:52 PM	For your first question, it depends. Are you using pre-errata Spellcasting Prodigy? If so, take it definitely. If not, you may want to swap it out. Second, I would go with Inhibit, as it works better with your theme than the others. Powerword Pain will end up being a dead spell at later levels, while Inhibit will still be useful. Personally, I dont like shock and awe all that much, so I would leave it gone.
Maxxim 01-18-07, 03:39 PM	I don't know whether I was looking at pre-errata or post-errata for Spellcasting Prodigy. The one I was looking at lets me take bonus spells as if my INT was 2 points higher, that's it. Was there a better version, or does it get worse? As for the spell, that's a good point about PW: Pain. I guess I should go with Inhibit then.
Repeekluos 01-18-07, 04:04 PM	I don't know whether I was looking at pre-errata or post-errata for Spellcasting Prodigy. The one I was looking at lets me take bonus spells as if my INT was 2 points higher, that's it. Was there a better version, or does it get worse? As for the spell, that's a good point about PW: Pain. I guess I should go with Inhibit then. Pre-errata, it helped your save dc's as well. It isnt a bad feat, but it used to be so much better. I would drop SP, as you get a metric tone of spells per day anyway. If you really want to go first, I would take improved init. You only have a 12 dex after all. Spell focus feats aren't a bad choice either.
Maxxim 01-18-07, 05:18 PM	On a related note, I just got Complete Scoundrel today, and if anyone has seen it, some of the skill tricks in there are really cool for this beguiler. For instance, I can spend 2 skill points to learn a group feint, where my feint (move action already) can affect the entire group of enemies if I win the rolls. For a beguiler, this means that I get +1 to my spell DCs against every enemy in the group for a turn. Another lets me conceal my spells so they don't draw attacks of opportunity and an onlooker can't see that I'm casting (i.e., no counterspell). So no having to worry about casting defensively, and spellcasting in social situations! "What's that, Mr. Town Mayor, you want me arrested? Hmm, yes that's interesting <concealed charm>...well, yes, I accept your apology, and sure, I'd love a drink!" Okay, so maybe not the most optimized trick, but definitely a fun one for this class.
Lafing Cat 01-18-07, 05:28 PM	I'd definitely recommend the Darkstalker feat (I believe from Lords of Madness) to you. Invisibility can be defeated by Blindsight, True Seeing, Tremorsense, etc.... but with Darkstalker, those things don't automatically defeat your hide check, increasing the number of things you can sneak up on enormously.
soulslost 01-18-07, 06:39 PM	heres another idea, go gnome beguiler shadowcraft mage for crazy funn spontanious lvl 9 spells of whatever you want-ness! (look on char opt boards for shadowcraft mage)
Grenouillebleue 01-18-07, 06:53 PM	About the beguiler, my DM doesn't allow it in his campaigns. He basically says that a beguiler is overpowered and better in every aspect than a specialist wizard. Sure, they have a limited spell-list (though not as limited as a sorcerer who would dabble in enchantment and illusion) but they get: - d6 hp instead of d4 - armor casting (even in medium armor with the feat) - 6+ skill points and trapfinding - Tricks to raise DC or lower MR - and some other goodies as well. Hence my question: why would anybody play a wizard or sorcerer when they wish to specialize in enchantment or illusion ?
Repeekluos 01-18-07, 07:03 PM	About the beguiler, my DM doesn't allow it in his campaigns. He basically says that a beguiler is overpowered and better in every aspect than a specialist wizard. Sure, they have a limited spell-list (though not as limited as a sorcerer who would dabble in enchantment and illusion) but they get: - d6 hp instead of d4 - armor casting (even in medium armor with the feat) - 6+ skill points and trapfinding - Tricks to raise DC or lower MR - and some other goodies as well. Hence my question: why would anybody play a wizard or sorcerer when they wish to specialize in enchantment or illusion ? The same question could be asked about the wizard/sorcerer that wants to specialize in evocation. Why wouldn't you just play a warmage? Does your DM allow warmage? Beguiler is by no means "Broken". Its just good.
Daxen 01-18-07, 10:50 PM	The same question could be asked about the wizard/sorcerer that wants to specialize in evocation. Why wouldn't you just play a warmage? Does your DM allow warmage? Beguiler is by no means "Broken". Its just good. Here, Here. WOTC actually designs a class that makes good sense both fluff wise and mechanically and the broken calls go out. Beguiler is well built, well thought out class.
Maxxim 01-20-07, 10:02 PM	I rethought my first advanced learning selection for this beguiler. I was going to take Inhibit as per the discussion above. But after looking things over, I think Shock & Awe is a better way to go. First, once you get level 2 and 3 spells, there are a few options for causing an opponent to lose its turn, making Inhibit less worthwhile. Some of those options only make it lose the move or standard action, but they are pretty similar. Second, I'm noticing a few important things about Shock & Awe. It is a swift action, so I can cast it, ruin the enemy's initiative roll, and cast another spell. Also, it has NO saving throw, so the effect is automatic (barring SR). Finally, Inhibit targets 1 enemy, while S&A targets 1/level. So basically, as long as I can surprise the enemy, the group gets a surprise round, then as long as we roll decent, we all get to go again before the enemy does. So everyone gets two turns before the enemy even starts (including the beguiler since the spell is a swift act), meaning the fight could be almost over before it even begins. Anyone see flaws with this reasoning, or other reasons I've overlooked to take another spell instead of this one?