Beguiler Help Needed! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Beguiler Help Needed! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Bolomang
07-17-07, 07:56 AM I have all the core books, Players Handbook 2 and Complete Adventurer. How would I use this class to the biggest advantage if I replace the Rogue? Please, if you use abreviations, please tell me what they are.
Dark1ord
07-17-07, 08:09 AM have you looked at something like this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=805782)?
Bolomang
07-17-07, 08:25 AM yes, but I am just starting my dnd adventures, and I was wondering what i could do with these rolled stats: 12, 13, 14, 16, 10, and 13? I keep switching them around, will you help me?
RobbyPants
07-17-07, 10:09 AM In terms of "replacing" the rogue, you get two very rogue-like features:

A good class skill list (with use magic device) and a lot of skill points
Trapfinding (the core rogue-only ability)

Don't try to think of this in terms of the rogue's sneak attack. The trick to playing a god beguiler is to remember that you're a primary caster (that gets up to 9th level spells). So don't quite play it like a rogue.

yes, but I am just starting my dnd adventures, and I was wondering what i could do with these rolled stats: 12, 13, 14, 16, 10, and 13? I keep switching them around, will you help me?
I would say your most important ability is Int. This is both your primary casting stat, and it also gives you extra skill points (which is good for a beguiler).

The next two most important are Dex and Cha. Depending on your build, and the character concept you have, I'd probably say Dex is a little more important. Try not to focus too much on melee combat. You have a small Hit Die, which makes you fagile, and you only wear light armor. Focus on your casting and ranged attacks. Here is a recommended ordering of the stats you listed:
Str: 10
Dex: 14
Con: 13
Int: 16
Wis: 12
Cha: 13

This is without any racial adjustment. Human is always a good race (as you get a bonus feat). Grey elf could be good too. You get +2 to both Dex and Int (I feel your most important stats) at the expense of -2 Str and Con. This will further keep you from melee. If you use the stats above (in the same order), you will have the following after racial adjustments:
Str: 8
Dex: 16
Con: 11
Int: 18
Wis: 12
Cha: 13

This might be something to consider. With the Str penalty, you might want to keep your primary weapon a crossbow (which doesn't apply the Str penalty to damage).

Hope this helps. ;)

EDIT:
Also, remember earlier that I pointed out that you get Use Magic Device (UMD) as a class skill. Max this one out! Every level, put in skill points. This can make you a very versitile character at the expense of one skill (which you should have lots of). If you're at a loss what feat to take at a certain level, consider Skill Focus: Use Magic Device. This will allow you to use a much wider array of spells through wands and scrolls. The illusions and enchantments are nice, but it's fun to whip out some fireballs and necromancy save-or-die spells once in a while. :P
The_Shaman
07-17-07, 10:12 AM Well, I see few reasons not to put your highest score in intelligence, and lowest in trength (ok, maybe wisdom, if for some reason you are hell-bent on carrying a bit more). I might switch dex and con, otherwise it would be similar to RobbyPants' idea. As for a race, I would suggest gnomes. Bonus to constitution, penalty to a bona fide dump stat, a bonus to illusion DCs, and access to one of the most impressive mage PrCs I've seen (Shadowcraft Mage, races of stone)
Arcane Guyver
07-17-07, 10:19 AM Put a priority into Intelligence, then Dexterity, Constitution, Charisma, Wisdom, then Strength.

Keep in mind that undead creatures are just as susceptible to illusions as any other creature, and keep that Use Magic Device skill maxed out (so you can pick up magic items and use them fairly well).

If you plan on using your Surprise Casting ability much, keep your Bluff and Concentration skill maxed (so you can feint and cast defensively more easily). It might be a good idea to pick up Combat Casting at 1st level, then retrain that away later for something more useful once you hit 6th level.

You will suck at physical combat, so try to keep a good stock of expendables on-hand (scrolls, alchemical items, potions, etc.).

Edit: Didn't mean to repeat half of this topic, just slow posting! (^_^')
StevenO
07-17-07, 01:02 PM The Beguiler replaces the Rogue's skill but not its combat ability. In combat it functions more like a specilized sorcerer (as in one concentrating on illusion/enchantments) so it isn't always the greatest in a fight. Outside of combat there are few classes I can think of that I'd rather have.

With your Stats I'd go:
Str 12
Dex 14
Con 13
Int 16
Wis 10
Cha 13

I'd plan on putting my first stat increase into CON and everything else into INT. I'd favor Str over Wis because of the increase carry capacity and slight improvement in melee which would otherwise get overlooked.
radkins
07-17-07, 01:13 PM I would advise a small race. Beguilers aren't really made for dealing damage so the small sized weapons aren't really an issue. As stated in many other posts, int should be your most important stat priority. As for the dump stat, just ask if there will be access to bags of holding in his campaign. If so, definately dump str. One of my favorite characters ever was a tibit beguiler. It was a race built around a bad pun: " the cat burglar."
Bolomang
07-17-07, 07:58 PM Ok, thanks everyone! Ok, so for equipment for first level what should I get for equipment? My DM says we all start out with full gold, Here's what I got: Explorer's Outfit, Backpack, Bedroll, Flint and Steel, 5 days Trail Rations, Short Sword, Studded Leather Armor, 2 Scrolls of Read Magic, 2 Scrolls of Detect Magic, 2 Scrolls of CLW, 2 Scrolls of Open/Close, Masterwork Theives' Tools. My DM also doesn't want to need any spell components, so what should I change, or is it good for now?

*PS: My DM let me squeese the gold over the limit so I could get the Short Sword
TheCobra
07-17-07, 08:06 PM In combat it functions more like a specilized sorcerer (as in one concentrating on illusion/enchantments) so it isn't always the greatest in a fight.

More accurately, it often is the greatest in a fight. At first level, she can cast color spray four times per day. That's about as good as first level combat power gets.

At 12th level, she can end many encounters by just telling the other guys to give up. Forcing Will saves can be extremely effective.
Nebosuke
07-18-07, 04:12 AM You can also be extremely effective as the party buff-monkey once you get your hands on haste (and displacement for really tough encounters).
Grogmir
07-18-07, 09:02 AM Firstly let me ‘fess up’ I’m a beguiler lover. I just love love love the class.

So what can you get up to… Well firstly you’re rubbish in melee so don’t even go there.

You so many skills (due to high int) that you can be just as Sneaky and trappy as a rogue while also using your spells it benefit that! Whats better? A scout with +20 Move Silently or a Scout with +20 AND Greater Invisibility AND the ability to cast spells without them finding out (still spell) So that will be your position. Early scouting and then invisible buffing.

Don’t underestimate you Battlefield control spells – they can be very very effective. (Generally considered the most effective use of Spells so being forced to use only them isn’t too bad really)

Now could I just drop a mention of my current beguiler build that I just love. Beguiler 5 Bard 1 Beg 1 Virtuoso 10 Beg 3

The reason for the strange progression is to match up abilities/feats. (1) Apprentice Entertainer 3 - Battle Caster 6 - Disguise Spell 9 –Subsonic – 12 + whatever….
I can cast spells while playing music (disguise spell) while they are also unable to here my Music (subsonic) so I stay Invisible nearly 90% of the battle, giving pluses to Att/Dam AND blasting off high level control spells, while doing it all in Medium Armour.

My previous PC was a Beguiler 1 Transmutator 4 / Ultimate Magus That was a blast as well and Beguiler makes a really good base for it.

Beguilers – You abilities are only limited by your imagination!

Good Luck
Grogmir
Bolomang
07-18-07, 09:56 AM So, if I go with the Gray Elf, what could I get for equipment if I use your recommended stats, RobbyPants?
RobbyPants
07-18-07, 10:02 AM So, if I go with the Gray Elf, what could I get for equipment if I use your recommended stats, RobbyPants?
Well, with a Str of 8, you're going to suck at melee. I might still keep a short sword or rapier around, just in case, but consider it a backup weapon.

You can use either bows or crossbows. Bows will still apply your Str penalty to damage, where as a crossbow won't. Crossbows also deal more damage. The trade-off is that it takes a move to reload. Early in the game, I'd suggest a light crossbow.

If you're having trouble affording it (35 gp, IIRC), drop the scrolls of read magic and detect magic. At least in my experience, you get enough 0-level spells per day that you shouldn't need backup scrolls for those spells.

Other than that, everything looks good. Oh, BTW, you do know that the 10gp exploerer's outfit you have is free, right? You're allowed to start with one set of clothes (from a list in the PHB) for free. I just thought I'd mention that, because you said you were having trouble affording your short sword (also 10 gp).
Bolomang
07-18-07, 10:44 AM ya, I used the Adventurer's Kit in the back of PH2. I was wondering what is all the negatives with a medium load encumberance? Because the PHB is kinda sketchy with the details to me.
RobbyPants
07-18-07, 11:34 AM ya, I used the Adventurer's Kit in the back of PH2. I was wondering what is all the negatives with a medium load encumberance? Because the PHB is kinda sketchy with the details to me.
Do the best you can to drop to a light load. It might be tough with a low Str, but it's annoying being encumbered.

Now, I might be wrong, but I thought a medium load incured the same penalties as wearing medium armor. In that case, your speed would drop from 30 feet to 20 feet. There might be other penalties, but they've never come up in my games (as my players try to limit their gear, get high Str scores, and/or get bags of holding). Of course, this might be more difficult at a lower level.

Out of curiosity (I don't have my PHB handy), what is the light load for a Str of 8? I'm guessing it's about 26 or 27 pounds (80 / 3). The crossbow only weighs 4 pounds, so it shouldn't be killing you too bad. Hopefully someone else in the group can have rope, to save you another 10 pounds or so. What all are you carrying that's putting you into your medium load?
Bolomang
07-18-07, 01:57 PM I'm not put down by a medium load, just wondering in case I am.
danielinthewolvesden
07-18-07, 02:06 PM Gnome makes the best Beguiler.
psionichamster
07-18-07, 02:58 PM take a close look @ the Mindbender prestige class.

just a single level in the class grants +2 fort/will, spellcasting progression, and telepathy.

then, take the "Mindsight" feat from Lords of Madness (if you can, if not, just get some other PrC to delay your advanced learning spells). now, you have a 100' range of detect thinking creatures, along with their type, int score, position , and if you know them, who they are.

you can stay invisible at all times (or practically) and know where your party is, the enemy is, and communicate all this silently at all times.

i recommend Gnome, for the Illusion save-boost, small size, and Con boost. (and the SLA's and Darkvision don't hurt either).

human is nice also, for extra skill-goodness and a bonus feat

-the hamster
RobbyPants
07-18-07, 04:35 PM take a close look @ the Mindbender prestige class.

just a single level in the class grants +2 fort/will, spellcasting progression, and telepathy.
Good point. I often consider doing this. I feel that a beguiler might have an easier time qualifying than a wizard, in that all of the required skills should be class skills, and the beguiler gets more skill points to work with. It's easy enough to qualify for, that you could really say you gain everything and lose nothing.

Somewhat off-topic:
The beguiler is one of the four classes I'd use in my "perfect" four-person party. When designing the builds, I had intended on using a single level of Mindbender for the very reasons you listed.
Bolomang
07-22-07, 09:31 PM Good point. I often consider doing this. I feel that a beguiler might have an easier time qualifying than a wizard, in that all of the required skills should be class skills, and the beguiler gets more skill points to work with. It's easy enough to qualify for, that you could really say you gain everything and lose nothing.

Somewhat off-topic:
The beguiler is one of the four classes I'd use in my "perfect" four-person party. When designing the builds, I had intended on using a single level of Mindbender for the very reasons you listed.

So what is your Perfect four-person party?
Lord_Zeb
07-23-07, 12:36 AM Do the best you can to drop to a light load. It might be tough with a low Str, but it's annoying being encumbered.

Now, I might be wrong, but I thought a medium load incured the same penalties as wearing medium armor. In that case, your speed would drop from 30 feet to 20 feet. There might be other penalties, but they've never come up in my games (as my players try to limit their gear, get high Str scores, and/or get bags of holding). Of course, this might be more difficult at a lower level.

Out of curiosity (I don't have my PHB handy), what is the light load for a Str of 8? I'm guessing it's about 26 or 27 pounds (80 / 3). The crossbow only weighs 4 pounds, so it shouldn't be killing you too bad. Hopefully someone else in the group can have rope, to save you another 10 pounds or so. What all are you carrying that's putting you into your medium load?

Load ranges for a medium character below. (Think of that a Small can carry 25% less, but also have lighter equipment.)

Strenght Light load Medium load Heavy load Small person max load
8 26 lb. or less 27–53 lb. 54–80 lb. 60 lb.
10 33 lb. or less 34–66 lb. 67–100 lb. 75 lb.

Penalties for being encumbered is max Dex penalty (where lowest of armor or load is used), Check penalty (cumulative with penalties for armor and shield), and reduced speed (where lowest of armor or load is used).

–—— Speed —–—
Load Max Dex Check Penalty (30 ft.) (20 ft.) Run
Medium +3 –3 20 ft. 15 ft. x4
Heavy +1 –6 20 ft. 15 ft. x3

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bolomang 07-17-07, 07:56 AM	I have all the core books, Players Handbook 2 and Complete Adventurer. How would I use this class to the biggest advantage if I replace the Rogue? Please, if you use abreviations, please tell me what they are.
Dark1ord 07-17-07, 08:09 AM	have you looked at something like this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=805782)?
Bolomang 07-17-07, 08:25 AM	yes, but I am just starting my dnd adventures, and I was wondering what i could do with these rolled stats: 12, 13, 14, 16, 10, and 13? I keep switching them around, will you help me?
RobbyPants 07-17-07, 10:09 AM	In terms of "replacing" the rogue, you get two very rogue-like features: A good class skill list (with use magic device) and a lot of skill points Trapfinding (the core rogue-only ability) Don't try to think of this in terms of the rogue's sneak attack. The trick to playing a god beguiler is to remember that you're a primary caster (that gets up to 9th level spells). So don't quite play it like a rogue. yes, but I am just starting my dnd adventures, and I was wondering what i could do with these rolled stats: 12, 13, 14, 16, 10, and 13? I keep switching them around, will you help me? I would say your most important ability is Int. This is both your primary casting stat, and it also gives you extra skill points (which is good for a beguiler). The next two most important are Dex and Cha. Depending on your build, and the character concept you have, I'd probably say Dex is a little more important. Try not to focus too much on melee combat. You have a small Hit Die, which makes you fagile, and you only wear light armor. Focus on your casting and ranged attacks. Here is a recommended ordering of the stats you listed: Str: 10 Dex: 14 Con: 13 Int: 16 Wis: 12 Cha: 13 This is without any racial adjustment. Human is always a good race (as you get a bonus feat). Grey elf could be good too. You get +2 to both Dex and Int (I feel your most important stats) at the expense of -2 Str and Con. This will further keep you from melee. If you use the stats above (in the same order), you will have the following after racial adjustments: Str: 8 Dex: 16 Con: 11 Int: 18 Wis: 12 Cha: 13 This might be something to consider. With the Str penalty, you might want to keep your primary weapon a crossbow (which doesn't apply the Str penalty to damage). Hope this helps. ;) EDIT: Also, remember earlier that I pointed out that you get Use Magic Device (UMD) as a class skill. Max this one out! Every level, put in skill points. This can make you a very versitile character at the expense of one skill (which you should have lots of). If you're at a loss what feat to take at a certain level, consider Skill Focus: Use Magic Device. This will allow you to use a much wider array of spells through wands and scrolls. The illusions and enchantments are nice, but it's fun to whip out some fireballs and necromancy save-or-die spells once in a while. :P
The_Shaman 07-17-07, 10:12 AM	Well, I see few reasons not to put your highest score in intelligence, and lowest in trength (ok, maybe wisdom, if for some reason you are hell-bent on carrying a bit more). I might switch dex and con, otherwise it would be similar to RobbyPants' idea. As for a race, I would suggest gnomes. Bonus to constitution, penalty to a bona fide dump stat, a bonus to illusion DCs, and access to one of the most impressive mage PrCs I've seen (Shadowcraft Mage, races of stone)
Arcane Guyver 07-17-07, 10:19 AM	Put a priority into Intelligence, then Dexterity, Constitution, Charisma, Wisdom, then Strength. Keep in mind that undead creatures are just as susceptible to illusions as any other creature, and keep that Use Magic Device skill maxed out (so you can pick up magic items and use them fairly well). If you plan on using your Surprise Casting ability much, keep your Bluff and Concentration skill maxed (so you can feint and cast defensively more easily). It might be a good idea to pick up Combat Casting at 1st level, then retrain that away later for something more useful once you hit 6th level. You will suck at physical combat, so try to keep a good stock of expendables on-hand (scrolls, alchemical items, potions, etc.). Edit: Didn't mean to repeat half of this topic, just slow posting! (^_^')
StevenO 07-17-07, 01:02 PM	The Beguiler replaces the Rogue's skill but not its combat ability. In combat it functions more like a specilized sorcerer (as in one concentrating on illusion/enchantments) so it isn't always the greatest in a fight. Outside of combat there are few classes I can think of that I'd rather have. With your Stats I'd go: Str 12 Dex 14 Con 13 Int 16 Wis 10 Cha 13 I'd plan on putting my first stat increase into CON and everything else into INT. I'd favor Str over Wis because of the increase carry capacity and slight improvement in melee which would otherwise get overlooked.
radkins 07-17-07, 01:13 PM	I would advise a small race. Beguilers aren't really made for dealing damage so the small sized weapons aren't really an issue. As stated in many other posts, int should be your most important stat priority. As for the dump stat, just ask if there will be access to bags of holding in his campaign. If so, definately dump str. One of my favorite characters ever was a tibit beguiler. It was a race built around a bad pun: " the cat burglar."
Bolomang 07-17-07, 07:58 PM	Ok, thanks everyone! Ok, so for equipment for first level what should I get for equipment? My DM says we all start out with full gold, Here's what I got: Explorer's Outfit, Backpack, Bedroll, Flint and Steel, 5 days Trail Rations, Short Sword, Studded Leather Armor, 2 Scrolls of Read Magic, 2 Scrolls of Detect Magic, 2 Scrolls of CLW, 2 Scrolls of Open/Close, Masterwork Theives' Tools. My DM also doesn't want to need any spell components, so what should I change, or is it good for now? *PS: My DM let me squeese the gold over the limit so I could get the Short Sword
TheCobra 07-17-07, 08:06 PM	In combat it functions more like a specilized sorcerer (as in one concentrating on illusion/enchantments) so it isn't always the greatest in a fight. More accurately, it often is the greatest in a fight. At first level, she can cast color spray four times per day. That's about as good as first level combat power gets. At 12th level, she can end many encounters by just telling the other guys to give up. Forcing Will saves can be extremely effective.
Nebosuke 07-18-07, 04:12 AM	You can also be extremely effective as the party buff-monkey once you get your hands on haste (and displacement for really tough encounters).
Grogmir 07-18-07, 09:02 AM	Firstly let me ‘fess up’ I’m a beguiler lover. I just love love love the class. So what can you get up to… Well firstly you’re rubbish in melee so don’t even go there. You so many skills (due to high int) that you can be just as Sneaky and trappy as a rogue while also using your spells it benefit that! Whats better? A scout with +20 Move Silently or a Scout with +20 AND Greater Invisibility AND the ability to cast spells without them finding out (still spell) So that will be your position. Early scouting and then invisible buffing. Don’t underestimate you Battlefield control spells – they can be very very effective. (Generally considered the most effective use of Spells so being forced to use only them isn’t too bad really) Now could I just drop a mention of my current beguiler build that I just love. Beguiler 5 Bard 1 Beg 1 Virtuoso 10 Beg 3 The reason for the strange progression is to match up abilities/feats. (1) Apprentice Entertainer 3 - Battle Caster 6 - Disguise Spell 9 –Subsonic – 12 + whatever…. I can cast spells while playing music (disguise spell) while they are also unable to here my Music (subsonic) so I stay Invisible nearly 90% of the battle, giving pluses to Att/Dam AND blasting off high level control spells, while doing it all in Medium Armour. My previous PC was a Beguiler 1 Transmutator 4 / Ultimate Magus That was a blast as well and Beguiler makes a really good base for it. Beguilers – You abilities are only limited by your imagination! Good Luck Grogmir
Bolomang 07-18-07, 09:56 AM	So, if I go with the Gray Elf, what could I get for equipment if I use your recommended stats, RobbyPants?
RobbyPants 07-18-07, 10:02 AM	So, if I go with the Gray Elf, what could I get for equipment if I use your recommended stats, RobbyPants? Well, with a Str of 8, you're going to suck at melee. I might still keep a short sword or rapier around, just in case, but consider it a backup weapon. You can use either bows or crossbows. Bows will still apply your Str penalty to damage, where as a crossbow won't. Crossbows also deal more damage. The trade-off is that it takes a move to reload. Early in the game, I'd suggest a light crossbow. If you're having trouble affording it (35 gp, IIRC), drop the scrolls of read magic and detect magic. At least in my experience, you get enough 0-level spells per day that you shouldn't need backup scrolls for those spells. Other than that, everything looks good. Oh, BTW, you do know that the 10gp exploerer's outfit you have is free, right? You're allowed to start with one set of clothes (from a list in the PHB) for free. I just thought I'd mention that, because you said you were having trouble affording your short sword (also 10 gp).
Bolomang 07-18-07, 10:44 AM	ya, I used the Adventurer's Kit in the back of PH2. I was wondering what is all the negatives with a medium load encumberance? Because the PHB is kinda sketchy with the details to me.
RobbyPants 07-18-07, 11:34 AM	ya, I used the Adventurer's Kit in the back of PH2. I was wondering what is all the negatives with a medium load encumberance? Because the PHB is kinda sketchy with the details to me. Do the best you can to drop to a light load. It might be tough with a low Str, but it's annoying being encumbered. Now, I might be wrong, but I thought a medium load incured the same penalties as wearing medium armor. In that case, your speed would drop from 30 feet to 20 feet. There might be other penalties, but they've never come up in my games (as my players try to limit their gear, get high Str scores, and/or get bags of holding). Of course, this might be more difficult at a lower level. Out of curiosity (I don't have my PHB handy), what is the light load for a Str of 8? I'm guessing it's about 26 or 27 pounds (80 / 3). The crossbow only weighs 4 pounds, so it shouldn't be killing you too bad. Hopefully someone else in the group can have rope, to save you another 10 pounds or so. What all are you carrying that's putting you into your medium load?
Bolomang 07-18-07, 01:57 PM	I'm not put down by a medium load, just wondering in case I am.
danielinthewolvesden 07-18-07, 02:06 PM	Gnome makes the best Beguiler.
psionichamster 07-18-07, 02:58 PM	take a close look @ the Mindbender prestige class. just a single level in the class grants +2 fort/will, spellcasting progression, and telepathy. then, take the "Mindsight" feat from Lords of Madness (if you can, if not, just get some other PrC to delay your advanced learning spells). now, you have a 100' range of detect thinking creatures, along with their type, int score, position , and if you know them, who they are. you can stay invisible at all times (or practically) and know where your party is, the enemy is, and communicate all this silently at all times. i recommend Gnome, for the Illusion save-boost, small size, and Con boost. (and the SLA's and Darkvision don't hurt either). human is nice also, for extra skill-goodness and a bonus feat -the hamster
RobbyPants 07-18-07, 04:35 PM	take a close look @ the Mindbender prestige class. just a single level in the class grants +2 fort/will, spellcasting progression, and telepathy. Good point. I often consider doing this. I feel that a beguiler might have an easier time qualifying than a wizard, in that all of the required skills should be class skills, and the beguiler gets more skill points to work with. It's easy enough to qualify for, that you could really say you gain everything and lose nothing. Somewhat off-topic: The beguiler is one of the four classes I'd use in my "perfect" four-person party. When designing the builds, I had intended on using a single level of Mindbender for the very reasons you listed.
Bolomang 07-22-07, 09:31 PM	Good point. I often consider doing this. I feel that a beguiler might have an easier time qualifying than a wizard, in that all of the required skills should be class skills, and the beguiler gets more skill points to work with. It's easy enough to qualify for, that you could really say you gain everything and lose nothing. Somewhat off-topic: The beguiler is one of the four classes I'd use in my "perfect" four-person party. When designing the builds, I had intended on using a single level of Mindbender for the very reasons you listed. So what is your Perfect four-person party?
Lord_Zeb 07-23-07, 12:36 AM	Do the best you can to drop to a light load. It might be tough with a low Str, but it's annoying being encumbered. Now, I might be wrong, but I thought a medium load incured the same penalties as wearing medium armor. In that case, your speed would drop from 30 feet to 20 feet. There might be other penalties, but they've never come up in my games (as my players try to limit their gear, get high Str scores, and/or get bags of holding). Of course, this might be more difficult at a lower level. Out of curiosity (I don't have my PHB handy), what is the light load for a Str of 8? I'm guessing it's about 26 or 27 pounds (80 / 3). The crossbow only weighs 4 pounds, so it shouldn't be killing you too bad. Hopefully someone else in the group can have rope, to save you another 10 pounds or so. What all are you carrying that's putting you into your medium load? Load ranges for a medium character below. (Think of that a Small can carry 25% less, but also have lighter equipment.) Strenght Light load Medium load Heavy load Small person max load 8 26 lb. or less 27–53 lb. 54–80 lb. 60 lb. 10 33 lb. or less 34–66 lb. 67–100 lb. 75 lb. Penalties for being encumbered is max Dex penalty (where lowest of armor or load is used), Check penalty (cumulative with penalties for armor and shield), and reduced speed (where lowest of armor or load is used). –—— Speed —–— Load Max Dex Check Penalty (30 ft.) (20 ft.) Run Medium +3 –3 20 ft. 15 ft. x4 Heavy +1 –6 20 ft. 15 ft. x3