Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nicholas the Paladin 04-05-07, 02:33 AM	Hi Guys, How does 'surprise casting' and 'cloaked casting' (beguiler) work with 'group-fakeout' (skilltrick)? I've seen the combo mentioned, but I don't wholly understand the workings. - Cloaked casting allows you to give your spells +1 DC when your opponent is disallowd it's DEX (for example: when a feint works) - Surprise casting allow you to feint in combat as a move action, but you have to be *in melee* (beguiler ability, effectively starting at lvl 6). - The skilltrick GFO allows you to feint versus multiple opponents. Example: So how I see it is, that a beguiler uses a whip to be in melee from 15ft distance (it's safer), uses 'group fakeout' to feint versus (lets say) 3 opponents, and uses an *area spell* to catch them with a +1 on his Spell-DC. But do all opponents have to be in reach of the whip? Surprise casting says you have to be 'in melee'. So by the letter you can be in melee with just one opponent...and still affect the rest that are further away with you area spell. How does it work? (and on a sidenote: can you use 'cloaked casting' when making use of the Hide-skill?)
Nicholas the Paladin 04-06-07, 03:03 AM	29 views, but no replies. Is my question that dumb, or that difficult? :bump:
Fallenangel359 04-06-07, 09:21 AM	the problem with whip is that it doesn't threaten an area... so some DMs might have a problem with that... theres a 1handed whiplike weapon thats oriental... karusu garu or something like that I can't remember... same rules as spiked chain, but 1hander That one would work... threatens 10 feet
Lotus Crane 04-06-07, 01:18 PM	karusu garu or something You're butchering the name for kusari-gama (chain-sickle), but that's a two-handed weapon. The one-handed weapon you're thinking of is the kawanaga, or heavy wired grappling hook.
The Livewire 04-06-07, 06:17 PM	Would the infamous whip-dagger work for this? I know it does lethal damage, but does it threaten?
Nicholas the Paladin 05-29-07, 07:23 AM	Would the infamous whip-dagger work for this? I know it does lethal damage, but does it threaten? Assuming it does, does my description of the mechanics in the first post work? Do you only have to threaten one opponent to als get the rest of the group?
Lawkeeper 05-29-07, 09:05 AM	Assuming it does, does my description of the mechanics in the first post work? Do you only have to threaten one opponent to als get the rest of the group? I'd say you could surprise-cast only opponents who happen to be in melee with you. The skill trick would only allow you to feint several of them rather than one.
Nicholas the Paladin 05-30-07, 02:24 AM	I'd say you could surprise-cast only opponents who happen to be in melee with you. The skill trick would only allow you to feint several of them rather than one. Then it's not that usefull. On the boards lives the assumption that this skilltricks is very usefull for the beguiler. But what Beguiler want to be at close range to more than 1 opponent?
Lawkeeper 05-30-07, 03:38 AM	Then it's not that usefull. On the boards lives the assumption that this skilltricks is very usefull for the beguiler. But what Beguiler want to be at close range to more than 1 opponent? Actually, that limitation is in the way the Surprised Casting and Cloaked Casting abilities work... especially the former in fact. It allows the Beguiler to feint an opponent you're in melee with as a move action. For opponents you're not in melee with, you can't use a move action unless you have the Improved Feint feat. That said, even Improved Feint needs a melee attack to benefit from the feint... but it's not the question at hand. Group Fake-Out allows you to "feint against multiple foes simultaneously" : you're not making a feint against a group, but against multiple individuals. If one of them is in some way immune to feints, he won't be affected because of the skilltrick (no, because his friends are feinted doesn't imply he is) ; if one of them succeeds on his SM check, he won't be feinted, despite his allies being so ; likewise, if one of them doesn't meet the conditions to be the subject of a feint action, he won't be affected. Being in melee is a condition of the Surprise Casting ability. However I agree it's quite inappropriate to ask a primary spellcaster to be in melee to benefit from his abilities, especially a spellcaster who's not a fan of slaughter and warfare, but that's the way the ability is written. Should I have written it, I would have removed the "in melee" requirement for a simple short visual range. EDIT: as a post-scriptum, that proves that not every rumor haunting these boards is true - limits exist to be quested for and enforced. ;)