beguilers [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

beguilers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
dark_nony
11-13-06, 03:33 PM Should a beguiler have cha based skills instead of int because my DM says he should have cha based skills, good luck for a good explanation for this ;) (you'll need it).
johnkretzer
11-13-06, 03:53 PM Should a beguiler have cha based skills instead of int because my DM says he should have cha based skills, good luck for a good explanation for this ;) (you'll need it).

I don't get what you are trying to say. Can you please explain better.
Black_Puffin
11-13-06, 05:40 PM I think he's talking about having Cha as the Spellcasting ability instead of Int.

I think it should, but it might be unbalenced because most of their skills are Cha based.
Ariath Ska'Vhor
11-13-06, 05:42 PM I think Cha suits the flavor of beguilers more, however, I also think it's need for that balance overpowers that need for flavor. Beguilers are quite good with Int based casting as it is.
The_Shaman
11-13-06, 05:56 PM Intelligence is definitely more useful than charisma. With the high intelligence, you can polish up the charisma-dependent skills anyway. It's actually quite surprising : of the 3 "specialized sorcerers" - the warmage, beguiler and dread necro, it seems the one whose concept includes most charisma - the beguiler - is the only one that casts with intelligence. Go figure :rolleyes:
MareltEkiran
11-13-06, 05:57 PM And it is a good example as to why INT is a superior stat over CHA. So the argument for balance doesn't really work.

There are two characters. The first has an CHA of 18 and an INT of 10.
The second has a CHA of 10 and an INT of 18.

At first level, the first character gets a +4 bonus to his CHA based skills.
The second character gets a free extra 16 skill points.

If the second character so wishes, he can place all his skill points in CHA based skills and be equally good at diplomacy and bluffing as the first character.

At tenth level, the first character still has a +4 to his CHA based skills.
The second character, by this point, has gotten 42 extra skill points. There are 7 Charisma based skills in the game. He can put 6 skill ranks in each one of them and have better checks at all fronts than the first character. Also, he can choose what skills to put these ranks in, unlike the first character, who gets a flat +4 to Charisma based skills, whether he uses them or not.

In other words, the INT based casting actually makes the beguiler more powerful, due to the immense skill point pool that they get. Given that they have a base of 6/level and use INT as their primary stat, they often end up out-skilling rogues.
The_Shaman
11-13-06, 06:06 PM Definitely. A rogue with 14-16 intelligence is already well off, but by lvl 10 the beguiler might have the same number of skill points, and will probably continue to pump the intelligence through the roof.

A sorcerer could, er, feint better. No, actually not even that - they would wish they'd get to feint as a swift action. Hm, this is promising for beguiler gishes, by the way - arcane strike, swift feint, skills galore...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dark_nony 11-13-06, 03:33 PM	Should a beguiler have cha based skills instead of int because my DM says he should have cha based skills, good luck for a good explanation for this ;) (you'll need it).
johnkretzer 11-13-06, 03:53 PM	Should a beguiler have cha based skills instead of int because my DM says he should have cha based skills, good luck for a good explanation for this ;) (you'll need it). I don't get what you are trying to say. Can you please explain better.
Black_Puffin 11-13-06, 05:40 PM	I think he's talking about having Cha as the Spellcasting ability instead of Int. I think it should, but it might be unbalenced because most of their skills are Cha based.
Ariath Ska'Vhor 11-13-06, 05:42 PM	I think Cha suits the flavor of beguilers more, however, I also think it's need for that balance overpowers that need for flavor. Beguilers are quite good with Int based casting as it is.
The_Shaman 11-13-06, 05:56 PM	Intelligence is definitely more useful than charisma. With the high intelligence, you can polish up the charisma-dependent skills anyway. It's actually quite surprising : of the 3 "specialized sorcerers" - the warmage, beguiler and dread necro, it seems the one whose concept includes most charisma - the beguiler - is the only one that casts with intelligence. Go figure :rolleyes:
MareltEkiran 11-13-06, 05:57 PM	And it is a good example as to why INT is a superior stat over CHA. So the argument for balance doesn't really work. There are two characters. The first has an CHA of 18 and an INT of 10. The second has a CHA of 10 and an INT of 18. At first level, the first character gets a +4 bonus to his CHA based skills. The second character gets a free extra 16 skill points. If the second character so wishes, he can place all his skill points in CHA based skills and be equally good at diplomacy and bluffing as the first character. At tenth level, the first character still has a +4 to his CHA based skills. The second character, by this point, has gotten 42 extra skill points. There are 7 Charisma based skills in the game. He can put 6 skill ranks in each one of them and have better checks at all fronts than the first character. Also, he can choose what skills to put these ranks in, unlike the first character, who gets a flat +4 to Charisma based skills, whether he uses them or not. In other words, the INT based casting actually makes the beguiler more powerful, due to the immense skill point pool that they get. Given that they have a base of 6/level and use INT as their primary stat, they often end up out-skilling rogues.
The_Shaman 11-13-06, 06:06 PM	Definitely. A rogue with 14-16 intelligence is already well off, but by lvl 10 the beguiler might have the same number of skill points, and will probably continue to pump the intelligence through the roof. A sorcerer could, er, feint better. No, actually not even that - they would wish they'd get to feint as a swift action. Hm, this is promising for beguiler gishes, by the way - arcane strike, swift feint, skills galore...