Behavioral patterns of paladins/monks - ideas needed! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Behavioral patterns of paladins/monks - ideas needed! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Young Werter
06-24-04, 02:36 AM Now this isn't the first time I'm playing a paladin, monk, or LG cleric in a campaign, and, unfortunately, isn't the first time when I bump into situations when I simply can't make the decision.

Here is a fair example:
DM- After the slaughtering of the goblin warriors, you decide to search the place for any supplies -Here I wanted to object, say that looting is below our mighty righteousness. I'm more a roleplayer than anything else-

The rogue uncovers a hidden room, 10ft. sq. size, where the goblin children are hiding. I'm the leader of the party, and besides, who would want to deal with goblin children. So the decision falls to me.

So I start thinking. Goblins are evil beings, and so must be destroyed. On the other hand, I am a paladin of Tyr, and have sworn to uphold good and justice. Plus to that, my knightly code of conduct says that I have to be mercyful and courteous to my enemies.

Time is running.

The children, who were asleep when you found them, have awoken. None of them realize that you are intruders and have slaughtered their parents. Some of them begin crying, and others start following their example.

I have to think and I have to think FAST! "Christ, this is hard work" - I think to myself. Then I decide- I let mage put them to sleep, and then I let the ranger and the rogue kill them silently...

Aw, but that's the same as killing them, isn't it? I had absolutely no ideas about how I was to act. I wasn't afraid of losing paladin abilities and having to atone for them later, I was afraid - and I am always afraid - of bad roleplay. Luckily, it was half past eleven pm,and as soon as we realized that, we decided to finish the quest next session.

I had three days to think about it, and still haven't figured it out. Maybe the more experienced paladin-players would be able to help me. It's now this single case that's bothering me, really, because I'm sure that this isn't the last I've seen of such occasions.

Thanking you in advance for the useful information you will provide me with,

Werter.
BlaineTog
06-24-04, 02:39 AM No! Bad paladin! Bad boy!

You can't do that and not need Atonement. Its evil. There's even a famous Bitnine quote that deals with this exact situation (ok, they were orc babies. Picky picky picky), but the particulars escape me.

That said, this will (like most other Paladin threads) probably blow up into a 100-page long monstrosity.

EDIT: *Here* we go:
Originally posted by bitnine
Ah, posting on the WotC boards isn't complete until you witness a moral debate on wheter a paladin lighting babies on fire out of spite violates his code of conduct or not.(from here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=99182&perpage=50&pagenumber=1). The 2nd Page, if you use the 50-posts-per-page setting).
Young Werter
06-24-04, 02:42 AM Well... forgive me... I dindn't... I mean, I had no idea that it would turn out so long... I just needed advice. S you say that slaying goblin children isn't the way out? What should I do then?
BlaineTog
06-24-04, 02:49 AM Originally posted by Young Werter
Well... forgive me... I dindn't... I mean, I had no idea that it would turn out so long...Don't worry about it. We never get tired of arguing about paladins.

I just needed advice. S you say that slaying goblin children isn't the way out?Nope. Never slay anyone because of their race, period. If you know your DM is evil (you're a paladin; use that spell-like ability you get at 1st level!), don't even kill surrenduring Demons without a formal trial.

What should I do then?Nothing you can do now. Except devoting your life to getting them True Ressurected. But that may be impossible. Me, I'd dig them all graves, to start.

EDIT: Re-read the 1st post. Lemme get this straight: have you or have you not done the deed yet? If not, then I strongly suggest you do not kill them. Probably your best bet is to cart them to the nearest orphanage that'll take them.
Young Werter
06-24-04, 03:12 AM No, I haven't done the deed yet. Sorry, I only studied english for two years in an Australian public school... anyway, thank you for the link. this should be given to anyone who ever asks paladin questions again. And bitnine was (and probably still is) a blast :D

So then, cart them to the nearest orphanage? sounds okay. But your'e right about my DM - he's all chaotic evil. When I was DM, he played the blackguard, asked a vampire to suck his blood... I didn't complain. But he!! Oh well. I just hope he won't be dissapointed so much in my actions (saving the babies instead of setting them on fire :-)), that he'll take away my powers, saying "you spared the life of an evil monster... Ilmater will never forgive you..."

Say, he might even change my alignment... Oh well.
BlaineTog
06-24-04, 03:21 AM Originally posted by Young Werter
No, I haven't done the deed yet.Well, good. 'Cause mindless slaughter of creatures barely old enough to think coherent thoughts isn't the business of Paladins.

Sorry, I only studied english for two years in an Australian public school...Your English is much better than some native-speakers I know. Its certainly better than my Latin (which I also spent 2 years studying... *shudders*).

anyway, thank you for the link. this should be given to anyone who ever asks paladin questions again.WHich is why it's goining into my sig ASAP. :D

And bitnine was (and probably still is) a blast :DWell, thats one way of looking at him. ;)

So then, cart them to the nearest orphanage? sounds okay. But your'e right about my DM - he's all chaotic evil. When I was DM, he played the blackguard, asked a vampire to suck his blood... I didn't complain.Well (ignoring that virtually all DMs are CE ;)), let's just hope that he was just roleplaying his character really well...

But he!! Oh well. I just hope he won't be dissapointed so much in my actions (saving the babies instead of setting them on fire :-)), that he'll take away my powers, saying "you spared the life of an evil monster... Ilmater will never forgive you..." If he does, direct him to the "What's a DM to do?" board. And try arguing with him about it after the session. Just express hope for their conversion to good.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Young Werter 06-24-04, 02:36 AM	Now this isn't the first time I'm playing a paladin, monk, or LG cleric in a campaign, and, unfortunately, isn't the first time when I bump into situations when I simply can't make the decision. Here is a fair example: DM- After the slaughtering of the goblin warriors, you decide to search the place for any supplies -Here I wanted to object, say that looting is below our mighty righteousness. I'm more a roleplayer than anything else- The rogue uncovers a hidden room, 10ft. sq. size, where the goblin children are hiding. I'm the leader of the party, and besides, who would want to deal with goblin children. So the decision falls to me. So I start thinking. Goblins are evil beings, and so must be destroyed. On the other hand, I am a paladin of Tyr, and have sworn to uphold good and justice. Plus to that, my knightly code of conduct says that I have to be mercyful and courteous to my enemies. Time is running. The children, who were asleep when you found them, have awoken. None of them realize that you are intruders and have slaughtered their parents. Some of them begin crying, and others start following their example. I have to think and I have to think FAST! "Christ, this is hard work" - I think to myself. Then I decide- I let mage put them to sleep, and then I let the ranger and the rogue kill them silently... Aw, but that's the same as killing them, isn't it? I had absolutely no ideas about how I was to act. I wasn't afraid of losing paladin abilities and having to atone for them later, I was afraid - and I am always afraid - of bad roleplay. Luckily, it was half past eleven pm,and as soon as we realized that, we decided to finish the quest next session. I had three days to think about it, and still haven't figured it out. Maybe the more experienced paladin-players would be able to help me. It's now this single case that's bothering me, really, because I'm sure that this isn't the last I've seen of such occasions. Thanking you in advance for the useful information you will provide me with, Werter.
BlaineTog 06-24-04, 02:39 AM	No! Bad paladin! Bad boy! You can't do that and not need Atonement. Its evil. There's even a famous Bitnine quote that deals with this exact situation (ok, they were orc babies. Picky picky picky), but the particulars escape me. That said, this will (like most other Paladin threads) probably blow up into a 100-page long monstrosity. EDIT: Here we go: Originally posted by bitnine Ah, posting on the WotC boards isn't complete until you witness a moral debate on wheter a paladin lighting babies on fire out of spite violates his code of conduct or not.(from here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=99182&perpage=50&pagenumber=1). The 2nd Page, if you use the 50-posts-per-page setting).
Young Werter 06-24-04, 02:42 AM	Well... forgive me... I dindn't... I mean, I had no idea that it would turn out so long... I just needed advice. S you say that slaying goblin children isn't the way out? What should I do then?
BlaineTog 06-24-04, 02:49 AM	Originally posted by Young Werter Well... forgive me... I dindn't... I mean, I had no idea that it would turn out so long...Don't worry about it. We never get tired of arguing about paladins. I just needed advice. S you say that slaying goblin children isn't the way out?Nope. Never slay anyone because of their race, period. If you know your DM is evil (you're a paladin; use that spell-like ability you get at 1st level!), don't even kill surrenduring Demons without a formal trial. What should I do then?Nothing you can do now. Except devoting your life to getting them True Ressurected. But that may be impossible. Me, I'd dig them all graves, to start. EDIT: Re-read the 1st post. Lemme get this straight: have you or have you not done the deed yet? If not, then I strongly suggest you do not kill them. Probably your best bet is to cart them to the nearest orphanage that'll take them.
Young Werter 06-24-04, 03:12 AM	No, I haven't done the deed yet. Sorry, I only studied english for two years in an Australian public school... anyway, thank you for the link. this should be given to anyone who ever asks paladin questions again. And bitnine was (and probably still is) a blast :D So then, cart them to the nearest orphanage? sounds okay. But your'e right about my DM - he's all chaotic evil. When I was DM, he played the blackguard, asked a vampire to suck his blood... I didn't complain. But he!! Oh well. I just hope he won't be dissapointed so much in my actions (saving the babies instead of setting them on fire :-)), that he'll take away my powers, saying "you spared the life of an evil monster... Ilmater will never forgive you..." Say, he might even change my alignment... Oh well.
BlaineTog 06-24-04, 03:21 AM	Originally posted by Young Werter No, I haven't done the deed yet.Well, good. 'Cause mindless slaughter of creatures barely old enough to think coherent thoughts isn't the business of Paladins. Sorry, I only studied english for two years in an Australian public school...Your English is much better than some native-speakers I know. Its certainly better than my Latin (which I also spent 2 years studying... shudders). anyway, thank you for the link. this should be given to anyone who ever asks paladin questions again.WHich is why it's goining into my sig ASAP. :D And bitnine was (and probably still is) a blast :DWell, thats one way of looking at him. ;) So then, cart them to the nearest orphanage? sounds okay. But your'e right about my DM - he's all chaotic evil. When I was DM, he played the blackguard, asked a vampire to suck his blood... I didn't complain.Well (ignoring that virtually all DMs are CE ;)), let's just hope that he was just roleplaying his character really well... But he!! Oh well. I just hope he won't be dissapointed so much in my actions (saving the babies instead of setting them on fire :-)), that he'll take away my powers, saying "you spared the life of an evil monster... Ilmater will never forgive you..." If he does, direct him to the "What's a DM to do?" board. And try arguing with him about it after the session. Just express hope for their conversion to good.