Behold the Colossus [Archive] - Wizards Community

Behold the Colossus [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dionon
06-29-06, 09:52 AM I was thinking one day, what would happen if you had a character that could just lift EMMENSE objects... this was the answer...

Table 1-1: The Colossus

Lv BaB Fort Ref Will Special
1 +0 +2 +0 +0 Improved Build (One and a Half), Mettle
2 +1 +3 +0 +0 Damage Reduction 1/-
3 +2 +3 +1 +1 Bonus Feat, Improved Improvision (Magic)
4 +3 +4 +1 +1 Improvised Weapon Bonus (+1)
5 +3 +4 +1 +1 Damage Reduction 2/-, Improved Build (Large)
6 +4 +5 +2 +2
7 +5 +5 +2 +2 Bonus Feat, Improved Improvision (Alignment)
8 +6/+1 +6 +2 +2 Damage Reduction 3/-, Improvised Weapon Bonus (+2)
9 +6/+1 +6 +3 +3 Improved Build (Huge)
10 +7/+2 +7 +3 +3
11 +8/+3 +7 +3 +3 Bonus Feat, Damage Reduction 4/-
12 +9/+4 +8 +4 +4 Improvised Weapon Bonus (+3)
13 +9/+4 +8 +4 +4 Improved Build (Gargantuan)
14 +10/+5 +9 +4 +4 Damage Reduction 5/-
15 +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +5 Bonus Feat, Improved Improvision (Adamantine)
16 +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5 Improvised Weapon Bonus (+4)
17 +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5 Damage Reduction 6/-, Improved Build (Colossal)
18 +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +6
19 +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +6 Bonus Feat
20 +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +6 Damage Reduction 7/-, Improvised Weapon Bonus (+5)

Alignment: Any

Hit Dice: D8

Class Skills:
The colossus’ class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Ride (Dex), and Swim (Str).

Skill Points at 1st Level
(2 + Intelligence Modifier) x 4

Skill Points at Each Additional Level
(2 + Intelligence Modifier)

Class Features
Below are the Class Features of the Colossus

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies
A Colossus is proficient in all simple weapons, and improvised weapons (defined as anything that is not normally considered weaponry), and all armor and shields (except tower shields)

Improved Build
At first, fifth, ninth, thirteenth, and seventeenth levels the Colossus' lift and carry capacity improves to the indicated size category. The increase at first level makes any Small creatures within this class lift as a medium creature, and a medium creature's lift and carry capacity multiply by one and a half. Further increases are as follows: Large ×2, Huge ×4, Gargantuan ×8, Colossal ×16. This increase carries over to all carry capacities (Light, Medium and Heavy Loads, Max Lift, Lift over Head and Push or Drag), but is only for that purpose. It does not convey any bonuses to strength, nor does it allow you to hit better in combat. Lifting heavier objects however does work in tandem with the Colossus' ability to use improvised weapons. Damage for Improvised Weaponry is as follows.

Table 1-2: Improvised Weapon Damage for a Colossus

Size Category Example Damage Critical
Fine Pebble 1d2 x2
Diminutive Small Rock 1d3 x2
Tiny Large Rock 1d4 x2
Small Barrel 1d6 x3
Medium Cart 1d8 x3
Large Carriage 2d6 x3
Huge Wagon 3d6 x4
Gargantuan Keelboat 4d6 x4
Colossal Galley 6d6 x4

Mettle
At first level, a colossus can resist magical or unusual attacks with great willpower and fortitude. If he makes a successful Will or Fortitude save against an attack that normally would have a lesser effect on a successful save (such as any spell with a saving throw entry of Will partial or Fortitude partial), he instead completely negates the effect. And unconscious or sleeping hexblade does not gain the benefit of mettle.

Bonus Feats
At third level, and every four levels thereafter, the Colossus gains a bonus feat from the following list.
Alertness, Athletic, Blind Fight, Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, Endurance, Diehard, Great Fortitude, Improved Critical, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Overrun, Improved Sunder, Improved Shield Bash, Toughness, Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus

Improved Improvision
Calling on his great strength, a colossus of third level or higher can overcome damage reduction with greater ease with his improvised weapons. Any improvised weapon that is wielded by the Colossus of third level is considered magical when overcoming damage reduction. At seventh level this bonus becomes tied to the colossus' alignment. They pick one of the following that corrisponds with their alignment (Good, Evil, Lawful, Chaotic), and all their improvised weapons are considered to be of that alignment as well. Finally at fifteenth level, the ability makes the improvised weapon wielded by the colossus seem to be of adamantine. This ability confers no benifit to anything that can be wielded as a weapon (any object that needs Simple, Martial or Exotic weapon proficiencies).

Improvised Weapon Damage Bonus
At each fourth level (beginning at fourth), the Colossus receives a bonus on damage rolls made to Improvised weapons beginning at +1 and increasing by +1 at each interval.

Damage Reduction
At second level, and every three levels thereafter, the Colossus gains damage reduction beginning at 1/- and increasing by +1/- at each interval. This Damage reduction stacks with all other types of Damage reduction.

I really really really would love to have comments...
JLaurHughes
06-29-06, 10:11 AM Humanoid two legged donkey comes to mind.
dawnbringer
06-29-06, 10:19 AM I can so see a medium creature using a collossal greatsword.
frasmage
06-29-06, 11:47 AM The ability for a medium creature to wield colossal stuff is both impossible (that sword is about 16x bigger than you and much heavier) and imba

Tough Hide
At first level, the Colossus' skin toughens, but his reflexes suffer. Whenever they have to make any saving throw regarding Reflex, they may choose to use their Fortitude instead. Furthermore, they may add their Constitution Modifier to their Will Saving throw in addition to their Wisdom Modifier. Lastly, they receive a bonus to all their saving throws equal to one-quarter of their class level.

HOLY CRAP
BEST 1 LEVEL DIP EVER!

No more MAD suffering
totally imba
Dionon
06-29-06, 12:03 PM *sigh* No, they do not gain the ability to wield weapons of greater size (Hell they have NO weapon proficiencies other than simple and improvised)

And the second thing was just to say that they add Con mod to their will, and all other saves are fortitude... I worded it wierd... The 1/4 hd thing is a big thing yes... but can you say that a Paladin with an 18 charisma isn't any better off? Give them 8 levels (A +2 by Colossus Standards) and the Paladin couldpossibly have a +5 to all saves, leaving the Colossus in the dust :D

But yeah.... it was a whim thing :D
CryoSilver
06-29-06, 12:15 PM Rather than Tough Hide, consider the Mettle ability, which is like Evasion for Fortitude and will saves; it has that same "shrug it off" feel, but without the same temptation to level dip in this class.
Dionon
06-29-06, 12:32 PM Hey that's a great idea!

Any chance one of you guys has the official write up of the ability so I can pop it into the class and make it balanced?
Dionon
07-01-06, 09:53 AM Bump... so I can get an answer
Shiikeras
07-01-06, 10:38 AM I don't know the answer, but I can say one thing. How on earth is hitting someone with a frigging ship going to do only 6d6 damage? I do think that a fireball (10d6) that lasts for a few seconds of burning heat would do less damage or even the same amount as dropping a GALLEY on them. Also, hitting someone with a farm cart just seems like it should do much more than a longsword. And a Greatsword would do less then hitting someone with a carrige.
Ralvuimego
07-01-06, 01:13 PM Hm... What would be the rulings on the Colossus using an enemy as a weapon?

Think about it... One ancient red dragon being used to club the floor to death.

EDIT: Hmm... fey colossi... I might have to use this class on my PCs. (Imagines a tiny fey lifting a carrage and chucking it at my PCs.)
Dionon
07-01-06, 04:34 PM lol! I love it, the little pixie that could :D

And as for using enemies as weapons... if you defeat their grapple check, there is no reason why you can't throw an enemy, or use them as a club... Using them as a club would cause both the club and it's target damage. Just half it for the club(enemy)

Anyway... I really could use the meaning of the Mettle ability.... cause honestly, I can't find it for some reason...
Dionon
07-01-06, 04:42 PM I don't know the answer, but I can say one thing. How on earth is hitting someone with a frigging ship going to do only 6d6 damage? I do think that a fireball (10d6) that lasts for a few seconds of burning heat would do less damage or even the same amount as dropping a GALLEY on them. Also, hitting someone with a farm cart just seems like it should do much more than a longsword. And a Greatsword would do less then hitting someone with a carrige.

I can see what you're saying, but I'm also trying to keep a modicum of balance here... If I threw a Galley at you, you're not getting hit with the whole thing, just that small part that hits you. And as for hitting someone with a farm cart, the way I look at it, it's made of wood.. and is going to break before your longsword... Besides... I used the D20 Modern's Improvised Weapon chart when I made this...

If you want me to, I can actually lower the damages to meet that where a colossal improised weapon only deals 2d8.... but I though 6d6 was better.... Page 109, d20 modern handbook has the improvised weapon chart... I.... changed it to match the feel of the colossus... Just remember... a Colossus in a shipyard is deadlier than the fireball hurling mage who can only cast 4 - 6 fireballs a day.
Deity
07-01-06, 06:10 PM If you have complete warrior, there is a improvised weapon damage chart near the end of the book (IIRC). and according to it, a ship would deal more than 6d6 damage. closer to 10d6 or 12d6 depending on hpw much the ship weighs.
Vaelan
07-01-06, 06:39 PM I don't like the idea. That said, I would recommend ignoring people who can't even be bothered to spell out the word imbalanced.

Larger objects shouldn't get higher critical multipliers, but other than that and the ubiquitous dipping concerns, I don't see anything wrong with it.
Exooki
07-01-06, 07:19 PM i msut say that i think as they increase in extreme strenght lifting objects their size must increse also. a medium creature cannot pick up a collassol sized objsuect. it is simply impossibly. not so much the weight but it is too big. every two levels of increased build brings them up one size eventually making them huge sized. a huge sized creature lifitng a colassol object is much more understandable.

jsut a suggestion at leats have them increase to large size. soo much muscle makes them really huge :)

hope that helps another thing is alll improvised weapons sounds a little wide area. may i suggest making up a couple of categoires and allow them to chose one category and then further on give them the choice to either improve in that category or become profecient wiht another? it just seems that being profecient in everything but normal weapons is too wide a area to be profecient in.

hope it helps
Dionon
07-02-06, 10:02 AM i msut say that i think as they increase in extreme strenght lifting objects their size must increse also. a medium creature cannot pick up a collassol sized objsuect. it is simply impossibly. not so much the weight but it is too big. every two levels of increased build brings them up one size eventually making them huge sized. a huge sized creature lifitng a colassol object is much more understandable.

jsut a suggestion at leats have them increase to large size. soo much muscle makes them really huge :)

hope that helps another thing is alll improvised weapons sounds a little wide area. may i suggest making up a couple of categoires and allow them to chose one category and then further on give them the choice to either improve in that category or become profecient wiht another? it just seems that being profecient in everything but normal weapons is too wide a area to be profecient in.

hope it helps

Well... the Colossus was made on a Comic Book itch... when I say it's the colossus, I mean it's Colossus from the X-Men... he's a Medium sized creature, who can lift colossal objects... So I'm not changing the sizes..

I figured that size categories was enough... Besides there are other classes that recieve this ability such as the drunken master, and the .... ah great.. I can't remember it. Ah well....

The baseline is, whether Colossus picked up a iron pipe, or a city bus, he knew how to use it. And that in itself is enough for me to warrant the improvised weapons. It's not like you could pick up a colossal greatsword, or a huge warhammer.... you are not proficient with that...
LordKudzu
07-02-06, 12:45 PM Well it stands to reason that he could pick up the Collosal Greatsword or Warhammer and be able to use it either a) as an Improvised Weapon (which would net him the extra damage from the class) or b) as normal albiet at a -4 penalty for non-proficiency.

You should keep in mind that although he can be hucking around boats and wagons and such, it will be very rare for him to have the ability to pierce DR of most monsters. There aren't many +3 Flaming Burst Silver Farm Wagons just lying around or even in loot. That might be a balance thing when you go to hit that Balor with a Galley that you've put into your Bag of Holding IV and you less than half damage because you can't pierce his 15/magic and good DR. Maybe an ability to add to your Improvised Weapons for this purpose.

To comment on your comic book geek-out (which I also frequently do) see also the new Superman Returns. Man does Supes lift some big things. Maybe your class could also get his heat vision too.

And finally, Mettle: from pg 7 of the Complete Warrior. At 3rd level and higher, a hexblade can resist magical or unusual attacks with great willpower and fortitude. If he makes a successful Will or Fortitude save against an attack that normally would have a lesser effect on a successful save (such as any spell with a saving throw entry of Will partial or Fortitude partial), he instead completely negates the effect. And unconscious or sleeping hexblade does not gain the benefit of mettle.

Hopefully these help.
Dionon
07-02-06, 02:53 PM Well it stands to reason that he could pick up the Collosal Greatsword or Warhammer and be able to use it either a) as an Improvised Weapon (which would net him the extra damage from the class) or b) as normal albiet at a -4 penalty for non-proficiency.

This is true :D but hell if they want to, this class is designed for it (Besides... dont Colossal Greatswords do more than 6d6 damage? I don't remember anymore)

You should keep in mind that although he can be hucking around boats and wagons and such, it will be very rare for him to have the ability to pierce DR of most monsters. There aren't many +3 Flaming Burst Silver Farm Wagons just lying around or even in loot. That might be a balance thing when you go to hit that Balor with a Galley that you've put into your Bag of Holding IV and you less than half damage because you can't pierce his 15/magic and good DR. Maybe an ability to add to your Improvised Weapons for this
purpose.

This is precisly the point I wanted to bring out before. Yes he can do 36 damage at max, but when you put that up against, like you're example a Balor, that becomes 20 damage. Get into epic levels and it becomes less and less till the point where unless he's got a magic ship in his pocket (which is completley possible... I guess) he's gonna be in a world of hurt once the Prismatic Dragons get him lol...

I would give the class the ability to magicize their attacking improvised weapons, but that would completley unbalance the class.. Unless others of you agree with this notion, I mean I've always taken good ideas even if I don't exactly like them, if more than three people agree.

To comment on your comic book geek-out (which I also frequently do) see also the new Superman Returns. Man does Supes lift some big things. Maybe your class could also get his heat vision too.

Hahaha, this would just amount to a Warlock that can lift Galleys... That's scary :p

And finally, Mettle: from pg 7 of the Complete Warrior. At 3rd level and higher, a hexblade can resist magical or unusual attacks with great willpower and fortitude. If he makes a successful Will or Fortitude save against an attack that normally would have a lesser effect on a successful save (such as any spell with a saving throw entry of Will partial or Fortitude partial), he instead completely negates the effect. And unconscious or sleeping hexblade does not gain the benefit of mettle.

Thank you! I am going to place this ability in place of Tough Hide now. But now that this is here... I might just think about some of the other changes :p

Hopefully these help.
Dionon
07-02-06, 03:00 PM Bumped for the sake of new revisions :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dionon 06-29-06, 09:52 AM	I was thinking one day, what would happen if you had a character that could just lift EMMENSE objects... this was the answer... Table 1-1: The Colossus Lv BaB Fort Ref Will Special 1 +0 +2 +0 +0 Improved Build (One and a Half), Mettle 2 +1 +3 +0 +0 Damage Reduction 1/- 3 +2 +3 +1 +1 Bonus Feat, Improved Improvision (Magic) 4 +3 +4 +1 +1 Improvised Weapon Bonus (+1) 5 +3 +4 +1 +1 Damage Reduction 2/-, Improved Build (Large) 6 +4 +5 +2 +2 7 +5 +5 +2 +2 Bonus Feat, Improved Improvision (Alignment) 8 +6/+1 +6 +2 +2 Damage Reduction 3/-, Improvised Weapon Bonus (+2) 9 +6/+1 +6 +3 +3 Improved Build (Huge) 10 +7/+2 +7 +3 +3 11 +8/+3 +7 +3 +3 Bonus Feat, Damage Reduction 4/- 12 +9/+4 +8 +4 +4 Improvised Weapon Bonus (+3) 13 +9/+4 +8 +4 +4 Improved Build (Gargantuan) 14 +10/+5 +9 +4 +4 Damage Reduction 5/- 15 +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +5 Bonus Feat, Improved Improvision (Adamantine) 16 +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5 Improvised Weapon Bonus (+4) 17 +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5 Damage Reduction 6/-, Improved Build (Colossal) 18 +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +6 19 +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +6 Bonus Feat 20 +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +6 Damage Reduction 7/-, Improvised Weapon Bonus (+5) Alignment: Any Hit Dice: D8 Class Skills: The colossus’ class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Ride (Dex), and Swim (Str). Skill Points at 1st Level (2 + Intelligence Modifier) x 4 Skill Points at Each Additional Level (2 + Intelligence Modifier) Class Features Below are the Class Features of the Colossus Weapon and Armor Proficiencies A Colossus is proficient in all simple weapons, and improvised weapons (defined as anything that is not normally considered weaponry), and all armor and shields (except tower shields) Improved Build At first, fifth, ninth, thirteenth, and seventeenth levels the Colossus' lift and carry capacity improves to the indicated size category. The increase at first level makes any Small creatures within this class lift as a medium creature, and a medium creature's lift and carry capacity multiply by one and a half. Further increases are as follows: Large ×2, Huge ×4, Gargantuan ×8, Colossal ×16. This increase carries over to all carry capacities (Light, Medium and Heavy Loads, Max Lift, Lift over Head and Push or Drag), but is only for that purpose. It does not convey any bonuses to strength, nor does it allow you to hit better in combat. Lifting heavier objects however does work in tandem with the Colossus' ability to use improvised weapons. Damage for Improvised Weaponry is as follows. Table 1-2: Improvised Weapon Damage for a Colossus Size Category Example Damage Critical Fine Pebble 1d2 x2 Diminutive Small Rock 1d3 x2 Tiny Large Rock 1d4 x2 Small Barrel 1d6 x3 Medium Cart 1d8 x3 Large Carriage 2d6 x3 Huge Wagon 3d6 x4 Gargantuan Keelboat 4d6 x4 Colossal Galley 6d6 x4 Mettle At first level, a colossus can resist magical or unusual attacks with great willpower and fortitude. If he makes a successful Will or Fortitude save against an attack that normally would have a lesser effect on a successful save (such as any spell with a saving throw entry of Will partial or Fortitude partial), he instead completely negates the effect. And unconscious or sleeping hexblade does not gain the benefit of mettle. Bonus Feats At third level, and every four levels thereafter, the Colossus gains a bonus feat from the following list. Alertness, Athletic, Blind Fight, Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, Endurance, Diehard, Great Fortitude, Improved Critical, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Overrun, Improved Sunder, Improved Shield Bash, Toughness, Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus Improved Improvision Calling on his great strength, a colossus of third level or higher can overcome damage reduction with greater ease with his improvised weapons. Any improvised weapon that is wielded by the Colossus of third level is considered magical when overcoming damage reduction. At seventh level this bonus becomes tied to the colossus' alignment. They pick one of the following that corrisponds with their alignment (Good, Evil, Lawful, Chaotic), and all their improvised weapons are considered to be of that alignment as well. Finally at fifteenth level, the ability makes the improvised weapon wielded by the colossus seem to be of adamantine. This ability confers no benifit to anything that can be wielded as a weapon (any object that needs Simple, Martial or Exotic weapon proficiencies). Improvised Weapon Damage Bonus At each fourth level (beginning at fourth), the Colossus receives a bonus on damage rolls made to Improvised weapons beginning at +1 and increasing by +1 at each interval. Damage Reduction At second level, and every three levels thereafter, the Colossus gains damage reduction beginning at 1/- and increasing by +1/- at each interval. This Damage reduction stacks with all other types of Damage reduction. I really really really would love to have comments...
JLaurHughes 06-29-06, 10:11 AM	Humanoid two legged donkey comes to mind.
dawnbringer 06-29-06, 10:19 AM	I can so see a medium creature using a collossal greatsword.
frasmage 06-29-06, 11:47 AM	The ability for a medium creature to wield colossal stuff is both impossible (that sword is about 16x bigger than you and much heavier) and imba Tough Hide At first level, the Colossus' skin toughens, but his reflexes suffer. Whenever they have to make any saving throw regarding Reflex, they may choose to use their Fortitude instead. Furthermore, they may add their Constitution Modifier to their Will Saving throw in addition to their Wisdom Modifier. Lastly, they receive a bonus to all their saving throws equal to one-quarter of their class level. HOLY CRAP BEST 1 LEVEL DIP EVER! No more MAD suffering totally imba
Dionon 06-29-06, 12:03 PM	sigh No, they do not gain the ability to wield weapons of greater size (Hell they have NO weapon proficiencies other than simple and improvised) And the second thing was just to say that they add Con mod to their will, and all other saves are fortitude... I worded it wierd... The 1/4 hd thing is a big thing yes... but can you say that a Paladin with an 18 charisma isn't any better off? Give them 8 levels (A +2 by Colossus Standards) and the Paladin couldpossibly have a +5 to all saves, leaving the Colossus in the dust :D But yeah.... it was a whim thing :D
CryoSilver 06-29-06, 12:15 PM	Rather than Tough Hide, consider the Mettle ability, which is like Evasion for Fortitude and will saves; it has that same "shrug it off" feel, but without the same temptation to level dip in this class.
Dionon 06-29-06, 12:32 PM	Hey that's a great idea! Any chance one of you guys has the official write up of the ability so I can pop it into the class and make it balanced?
Dionon 07-01-06, 09:53 AM	Bump... so I can get an answer
Shiikeras 07-01-06, 10:38 AM	I don't know the answer, but I can say one thing. How on earth is hitting someone with a frigging ship going to do only 6d6 damage? I do think that a fireball (10d6) that lasts for a few seconds of burning heat would do less damage or even the same amount as dropping a GALLEY on them. Also, hitting someone with a farm cart just seems like it should do much more than a longsword. And a Greatsword would do less then hitting someone with a carrige.
Ralvuimego 07-01-06, 01:13 PM	Hm... What would be the rulings on the Colossus using an enemy as a weapon? Think about it... One ancient red dragon being used to club the floor to death. EDIT: Hmm... fey colossi... I might have to use this class on my PCs. (Imagines a tiny fey lifting a carrage and chucking it at my PCs.)
Dionon 07-01-06, 04:34 PM	lol! I love it, the little pixie that could :D And as for using enemies as weapons... if you defeat their grapple check, there is no reason why you can't throw an enemy, or use them as a club... Using them as a club would cause both the club and it's target damage. Just half it for the club(enemy) Anyway... I really could use the meaning of the Mettle ability.... cause honestly, I can't find it for some reason...
Dionon 07-01-06, 04:42 PM	I don't know the answer, but I can say one thing. How on earth is hitting someone with a frigging ship going to do only 6d6 damage? I do think that a fireball (10d6) that lasts for a few seconds of burning heat would do less damage or even the same amount as dropping a GALLEY on them. Also, hitting someone with a farm cart just seems like it should do much more than a longsword. And a Greatsword would do less then hitting someone with a carrige. I can see what you're saying, but I'm also trying to keep a modicum of balance here... If I threw a Galley at you, you're not getting hit with the whole thing, just that small part that hits you. And as for hitting someone with a farm cart, the way I look at it, it's made of wood.. and is going to break before your longsword... Besides... I used the D20 Modern's Improvised Weapon chart when I made this... If you want me to, I can actually lower the damages to meet that where a colossal improised weapon only deals 2d8.... but I though 6d6 was better.... Page 109, d20 modern handbook has the improvised weapon chart... I.... changed it to match the feel of the colossus... Just remember... a Colossus in a shipyard is deadlier than the fireball hurling mage who can only cast 4 - 6 fireballs a day.
Deity 07-01-06, 06:10 PM	If you have complete warrior, there is a improvised weapon damage chart near the end of the book (IIRC). and according to it, a ship would deal more than 6d6 damage. closer to 10d6 or 12d6 depending on hpw much the ship weighs.
Vaelan 07-01-06, 06:39 PM	I don't like the idea. That said, I would recommend ignoring people who can't even be bothered to spell out the word imbalanced. Larger objects shouldn't get higher critical multipliers, but other than that and the ubiquitous dipping concerns, I don't see anything wrong with it.
Exooki 07-01-06, 07:19 PM	i msut say that i think as they increase in extreme strenght lifting objects their size must increse also. a medium creature cannot pick up a collassol sized objsuect. it is simply impossibly. not so much the weight but it is too big. every two levels of increased build brings them up one size eventually making them huge sized. a huge sized creature lifitng a colassol object is much more understandable. jsut a suggestion at leats have them increase to large size. soo much muscle makes them really huge :) hope that helps another thing is alll improvised weapons sounds a little wide area. may i suggest making up a couple of categoires and allow them to chose one category and then further on give them the choice to either improve in that category or become profecient wiht another? it just seems that being profecient in everything but normal weapons is too wide a area to be profecient in. hope it helps
Dionon 07-02-06, 10:02 AM	i msut say that i think as they increase in extreme strenght lifting objects their size must increse also. a medium creature cannot pick up a collassol sized objsuect. it is simply impossibly. not so much the weight but it is too big. every two levels of increased build brings them up one size eventually making them huge sized. a huge sized creature lifitng a colassol object is much more understandable. jsut a suggestion at leats have them increase to large size. soo much muscle makes them really huge :) hope that helps another thing is alll improvised weapons sounds a little wide area. may i suggest making up a couple of categoires and allow them to chose one category and then further on give them the choice to either improve in that category or become profecient wiht another? it just seems that being profecient in everything but normal weapons is too wide a area to be profecient in. hope it helps Well... the Colossus was made on a Comic Book itch... when I say it's the colossus, I mean it's Colossus from the X-Men... he's a Medium sized creature, who can lift colossal objects... So I'm not changing the sizes.. I figured that size categories was enough... Besides there are other classes that recieve this ability such as the drunken master, and the .... ah great.. I can't remember it. Ah well.... The baseline is, whether Colossus picked up a iron pipe, or a city bus, he knew how to use it. And that in itself is enough for me to warrant the improvised weapons. It's not like you could pick up a colossal greatsword, or a huge warhammer.... you are not proficient with that...
LordKudzu 07-02-06, 12:45 PM	Well it stands to reason that he could pick up the Collosal Greatsword or Warhammer and be able to use it either a) as an Improvised Weapon (which would net him the extra damage from the class) or b) as normal albiet at a -4 penalty for non-proficiency. You should keep in mind that although he can be hucking around boats and wagons and such, it will be very rare for him to have the ability to pierce DR of most monsters. There aren't many +3 Flaming Burst Silver Farm Wagons just lying around or even in loot. That might be a balance thing when you go to hit that Balor with a Galley that you've put into your Bag of Holding IV and you less than half damage because you can't pierce his 15/magic and good DR. Maybe an ability to add to your Improvised Weapons for this purpose. To comment on your comic book geek-out (which I also frequently do) see also the new Superman Returns. Man does Supes lift some big things. Maybe your class could also get his heat vision too. And finally, Mettle: from pg 7 of the Complete Warrior. At 3rd level and higher, a hexblade can resist magical or unusual attacks with great willpower and fortitude. If he makes a successful Will or Fortitude save against an attack that normally would have a lesser effect on a successful save (such as any spell with a saving throw entry of Will partial or Fortitude partial), he instead completely negates the effect. And unconscious or sleeping hexblade does not gain the benefit of mettle. Hopefully these help.
Dionon 07-02-06, 02:53 PM	Well it stands to reason that he could pick up the Collosal Greatsword or Warhammer and be able to use it either a) as an Improvised Weapon (which would net him the extra damage from the class) or b) as normal albiet at a -4 penalty for non-proficiency. This is true :D but hell if they want to, this class is designed for it (Besides... dont Colossal Greatswords do more than 6d6 damage? I don't remember anymore) You should keep in mind that although he can be hucking around boats and wagons and such, it will be very rare for him to have the ability to pierce DR of most monsters. There aren't many +3 Flaming Burst Silver Farm Wagons just lying around or even in loot. That might be a balance thing when you go to hit that Balor with a Galley that you've put into your Bag of Holding IV and you less than half damage because you can't pierce his 15/magic and good DR. Maybe an ability to add to your Improvised Weapons for this purpose. This is precisly the point I wanted to bring out before. Yes he can do 36 damage at max, but when you put that up against, like you're example a Balor, that becomes 20 damage. Get into epic levels and it becomes less and less till the point where unless he's got a magic ship in his pocket (which is completley possible... I guess) he's gonna be in a world of hurt once the Prismatic Dragons get him lol... I would give the class the ability to magicize their attacking improvised weapons, but that would completley unbalance the class.. Unless others of you agree with this notion, I mean I've always taken good ideas even if I don't exactly like them, if more than three people agree. To comment on your comic book geek-out (which I also frequently do) see also the new Superman Returns. Man does Supes lift some big things. Maybe your class could also get his heat vision too. Hahaha, this would just amount to a Warlock that can lift Galleys... That's scary :p And finally, Mettle: from pg 7 of the Complete Warrior. At 3rd level and higher, a hexblade can resist magical or unusual attacks with great willpower and fortitude. If he makes a successful Will or Fortitude save against an attack that normally would have a lesser effect on a successful save (such as any spell with a saving throw entry of Will partial or Fortitude partial), he instead completely negates the effect. And unconscious or sleeping hexblade does not gain the benefit of mettle. Thank you! I am going to place this ability in place of Tough Hide now. But now that this is here... I might just think about some of the other changes :p Hopefully these help.
Dionon 07-02-06, 03:00 PM	Bumped for the sake of new revisions :D