Post/Author/DateTime	Post
AllisterH 04-23-07, 02:24 PM	So what do you think is the best and worst base classes for a newbie to D&D? What class would you never give to a newbie since it requires massive system mastery (a.k.a, you really need to know how D&D combat works and things like AoO, or what are good feats) or lots of paperwork to keep track of (looking at you wizard)? What classes can you give a new player and be assured that even if they don't know the intricacies of the system, they'll always have an option to contribute in and out of combat?
Mister_J 04-23-07, 02:40 PM	I think that the best class for a newbie is the one he will naturally enjoy the most, all classes take a lot of learning for a first timer and you need to like it to be willing to put in the time. The pure caster classes, Wiz/Sor, Druid, and Cleric are the most complicated as they require learning a lot of spells to play well. The main melee classes are the least complicated in general. Fighter has a lot of feats, but picking a feat is only every other level, picking which spells to memorize is a daily exercise. The barbarian seems good with the same melee focus with fewer feats, but the changing stats from rage are a little tricky. Basically, in 3.5 every class is meaty enough that there are no easy classes for a newbie, but the fewer spells/day choices the better.
nachtmeister 04-23-07, 02:44 PM	Do you start at 1st level ? than just play what you like :)
StevenO 04-23-07, 02:48 PM	Best assuming you have a little help: Barbarian, Ranger, Sorcerer. The Worst starter classes (PHB only): Cleric, Druid, Wizard I lump those three spellcasters in the bottom mostly because they require a player to pick their spells before they even know what they may be up against. While a wizard may only have a limited number of spells to select from they risk frustration if they choose incorrectly. The divine casters have that problem plus a MUCH larger list of possible spells to choose from. I place the Sorcerer on the BEST list because with a little help in early spell selection (Someone make sure they know the spells they'll need!) they only have a few spells to learn how to use but don't need to worry about not having the right spell ready at a given time. The Barbarian simply represtent strength in battle without all the fancy tricks the fighter may need to know. I use Ranger for a more skill based character. With proper aid a fighter can work but it is possible to select feats that push it into a direction the player doesn't want to go.
Bhaal006 04-23-07, 02:51 PM	The best class for a noob is the barbarian, plain and simple, however the Fighter is THE expert level class, you have to which feats are going to help you the most in any number of situations, pick the wrong feat at the wrong time and you're pretty much hosed, you have to spend your wealth wisley, using it to accetuate your strengths and cover your weaknesses. Casters are almost as easy to play as a barbarian, if you screw up one day, just change your spell choices, no big deal, a retarded baby could play a caster effectivly with a little guidance, and a barbarian effectivly with no guidance.
AkaKageWarrior 04-23-07, 02:53 PM	druid is by far the worst. I know a newbie playing one. I tried to convince him to play something else, to no avail. spells. wildshape. animal companion. and there's still the standard game mechanics as hp, AC, BAB, saves, skills, feats... that would be enough for a newbie, but no, gimme the druid! OMG
CorbonDallasMultipass 04-23-07, 02:55 PM	Best for learning the game? Bard, Warlock, and Druid. all flavorful classes that encourage roleplaying, yet pack a versitile punch. Worst for learning would prolly be Wizard and Fighter (for micromanaging abilties and knowledge of combos), or any of the ToB core classes (for combos).
Thawmus 04-23-07, 02:59 PM	I think that the best class for a newbie is the one he will naturally enjoy the most, all classes take a lot of learning for a first timer and you need to like it to be willing to put in the time. The pure caster classes, Wiz/Sor, Druid, and Cleric are the most complicated as they require learning a lot of spells to play well. The main melee classes are the least complicated in general. Fighter has a lot of feats, but picking a feat is only every other level, picking which spells to memorize is a daily exercise. The barbarian seems good with the same melee focus with fewer feats, but the changing stats from rage are a little tricky. Basically, in 3.5 every class is meaty enough that there are no easy classes for a newbie, but the fewer spells/day choices the better. I'd say that even though the stat change for the Rage is tricky, it's not hard to list the attack separately, and put the Rage HP up in parenthesis for him until he figures out how that's all occurring. Then all they need to know is how many times they rage per day.
Thawmus 04-23-07, 03:02 PM	druid is by far the worst. I know a newbie playing one. I tried to convince him to play something else, to no avail. spells. wildshape. animal companion. and there's still the standard game mechanics as hp, AC, BAB, saves, skills, feats... that would be enough for a newbie, but no, gimme the druid! OMG I've suffered the same, numerous times. I don't understand why they don't stay away from the druid class, but they always jump right into it. And the DM has to sit there and smile politely while they spend 20 minutes figuring out which spell they want to cast....makes for a tough experience. I've nearly convinced myself to jump on it myself, (even though I don't really like it at all) just to keep them from feeling the need to take it in the future.
DaidojiTaidoru 04-23-07, 03:12 PM	Well that depends on the newbie and the game. Some people are quick to pick up on things making classes like Wizard or Rogue easy to jump into. Also a campaign composed mostly of new people is going to have a different power level then a game with veteran players already at the table. Still certain classes are easier to learn with then others. That aside here's the ones that I think a newbie friendly. Simple to play and forgiving - Barbarian. Your class skills are all listed in the write-up. Rage -> Hit things -> Take stuff. As a bonus there's not a lot of ways to mess up the build so long as you stick to feats that involve hitting things. (Probably my pick for best class to give to a total newbie, but it once again depends on the player) Ranger. While it does include complications such as the animal companion and spells, those are both minor parts of the class and can be left unoptimized without damaging a good core competency: shooting people you don't like. Rogue. Admittedly hard to set up (so many skill points to look up) but after that, and a quick sneak attack primer you can just keep maxing your skills and stabbing people in the back. Character creation is a slight hurdle but after that it's smooth sailing. Forgiving classes- Cleric - Looking up spells for a Cleric is a pain to many new players. Especially since you have ALL OF THEM. However if the player isn't scared off by the prospect of learning which spells are good by feel cleric is a nice class, because it's really hard to screw up. If your a Good aligned cleric you always have the healing availible, and with 3/4 bab, d8 hp and full armor you don't have any melee weaknesses. It's really hard to mess up a buffing style cleric. Hard to say- Sorcerer - Is direct damage casting good in your games? If so the sorcerer is a great class to toss to the new guy for super nuke happy fun time. Do casters have to plan to handle your encounters? Your new player will be staring at his sheet wondering why his abilities are worthless, while you slap yourself on the forhead for not remembering he doesn't know he needs to load up on scrolls. Those are are NOT newbie friendly- Fighter - Admittedly this is only for games where you plan on breaking level 4 or so, because before that d10 hd, full armor and full BAB are good enough. Past that though the chance that a new player will have screwed up the build (he doesn't know what feats are good, or that he needs to plan 3 levels in advance for them) isjust too high to make the class newbie friendly. Wizard - Memorization is difficult for most new players. If your new player is one of the few that can handle it right of the bat then see the sorcerer entry above, as most newbie wizards like explosions. If your new player goes for the powerful SOL spells and can handle memorization easily keep an eye on him, he'll probably know more then you do about the game before session 4. Druid - So you have a cohort from the begining, a spell list that is just strange and your spells default to summoning? Add in wildshape and the poor kid will memorize the monster manual in self defense. (Or get a headache) The Druid may be the path to true ultimate power but you have to look up a lot of things to play one.
YotartheBrave 04-23-07, 03:27 PM	I think the best newbie class is the Rogue. You do have to get them set up, but then they have skills for all occasion, like sneaking around, and trapfinding is a bonus Barbarian is definitely a go too. When they come to the table with a button saying "89 HP's and a Bad Attitude" or "Some adventure for fortune, others for fame. Me, I like to kill things!" thats a glorious barbarian in the making. Worst is the fighter and the sorcerer. If you don't have a firm idea of where your fighter is going, it'll suck. The limited spell selection of the sorcerer for the same reason.
danielinthewolvesden 04-23-07, 03:33 PM	Barbarian, esp the var Rage Bbn from PHII which has them raging auto when they go below a certain level of hit points. Fighter is good. Some small help with palnning and feats from a more exp player is all they need. But running it is fine. Ranger. Monk. Sorc. Favoured Soul. Again, they'll need a little help selecting what spells they know. Beguiler,bard, cleric, rogue, dragon shaman= maybe. NOT: Druid, Wizard, Psionic of any sorts, anything from BoNS or Incarnum. Newbies jump into druid as folks tell them that druid is the MOST POWERFUL CLASS IN THE GAME. Which it certainly can be- but only at higher levels and with a lot of forethought and game knowledge. At levels 1-4 the druid frankly sucks.
anas_thesy84 04-23-07, 03:40 PM	I'll say like Mister J...the best classe would be the one that the newbie like the most... the worst would be the paladin, considering you have role play in your game. the code of conduct of the paladin is strict and could become complicated...thats what I think
sedai 04-23-07, 03:43 PM	sorcerer is way best to start with: because sorcerers themselves know very little (atleast how i see them) and do stuff more on instinct and guts, half the time he says "and a dragon is bad right?" it will be roleplay, the other half player-alligned. and sorcerer doesn't have alot of spells and doesn't have to repair. and then again, it differs alot, some people pick up the fighter like its nothing, others have difficulties with it...
FreAkOuTRG 04-23-07, 03:55 PM	Our group finds it funny that the barbarian has to do the most math to deal damage. Barbarian: errrr... 1d8 plus Str plus enhancement... crap, got a bulls strength earlier... power attack for 5 extra points of damage... Wizard: *empties bucket of D6's* errrr... that many!
AllisterH 04-23-07, 04:19 PM	Not restricted to just core: Worst: Artificer. You think ToB is bad for a newbie but I can't see giving a new player the artificer and all the required paperwork. I invited them to play D&D, not play accoutant. Paladin is a bad choice as well. For a new player, that CODE is a real pain in the butt and even experienced players will throw their hands up in frustration when playing paladin. Best: Warlock (& the draconic analogue, the dragonfire adept) seem like they would be perfect for a new player. No paperwork, hard to screw up in advancing (although you might need to warn them about taking point blank and precise shot) and can contribute to the party in many situations.
Mordar 04-23-07, 04:40 PM	best one would probably be a warlock of dragonfire adept like allisterH said, they require less paperwork, they have few invocations and a main weapon which is the eldrich blast, just wacht out the DM is not a newbie and consider a 1d6 touch attack something overpowered =S second one with help I think it would be a duskblade, they are practically a one trip pony and tends to be a very optimizable class, just pick power attack and leap attack at 1st lvl and you are up to go
Thawmus 04-23-07, 04:51 PM	Outside of Core, I'd go with: Scout (CA): Lots of skills like the rogue, but you don't have to hide to deal mounds of damage. This makes things infinitely easier for you to run a rogue-like class without having to hide all the darn time. And most of the coolest automatic abilities of the Rogue, Monk, and Ranger, you get. Move 10 feet, shoot. 'nuff said. Dragon Shaman (PHBII): You don't have to know spells, just a few auras that cost nothing to switch around. You get a breath weapon, and you're all about beating people down. You also get to be a healer at level 6. Not much to this class at all, just a lot of automatic, "No, that doesn't affect me."
Deper 04-23-07, 06:03 PM	The best class for newcomers is easily the Factotum It lets them get used to the abilities of all the other main classes. It lets the get used to the types of skills they like, learn how and when to heal or turn undead, and get an idea about casting spells. They also learn how to deal with limited abilities due to their inspirations, but they don't need to worry about spending all of their inspiration points all in one combat, because you get them all back at the end of combat. The worst is the wizard/druid, for reasons others have mentioned.
The_Shaman 04-23-07, 06:35 PM	Actually, I might disagree with some people here on spellcasters. The druid really shines in the hands of a skilled player, but a newbie can play an acceptable druid if s/he can handle the fluff and has an idea about what they want - seriously, I've seen it happen. Okay, they won't have a great spell selection, but at low levels they won't have that many spells to choose anyway. By level 3 chances are they'll be getting some ideas right. Aside from that, they have 2 good saves, acceptable HP, and have a bodyguard that can be relatively decent. In my first game, the druid didn't do such a good job and still his wolf was our most impressive frontliner (6-person party with a ranger, a fighter, a cleric, a druid, a rogue and a sorcerer). Unlike other casters, divinists are more forgiving towards mechanical lack of knowledge - since you know all spells, so your only problem is choosing. The RP requirement is where a DM can really mess it up for the player, though. No spellcaster is easy to play on the first go, but the druid is not the hardest. I'd reserve the dubious honor for arcanists and psions. Wizards vs sorcerers? Choose your poison. A newbie sorcerer can curse him/herself with their spell selection like nothing you've seen. Sorcerers don't know that many spells anyway, and they have to make every pick count. It's not an easy job if you see the PHB for the first time. Wizards need to manage their spell list every day, and also - at least at first - choose some sensible spells. It's not easy, but at least you can correct your mistakes eventually. Sorcerer and the psionicists are much less forgiving in that regard. Better pick beguiler/warmage/dread necro if you want to get a quick&dirty introduction to spellcasting. Bards... kinda hard, especially in a small party and when there's a lot of fighting. A bard needs some experience to work well in battle imo. Barbarian is okay imo, fighter is acceptable at first before the extra spell levels and higher-level abilities start kicking in. Rogue can be quite tricky as they are a bit fragile, yet the many d6s make some players feel overly cocky. Scouts I have less experience with, but a player might likewise decide to go for the gusto and attack a foe he can't handle (although at least scouts are more durable). Ranger...well, a new player won't run the most effective ranger, but hopefully s/he will know enough not to get him/herself killed too often. I presume the player would get some help - good BAB and a chance of doing acceptable damage can make you play it risky, too. Still, it's a good way to get a new character into skills and even spells - by the time the ranger gets those, the character might have some idea about what works for him/her. Paladin only works if the character can handle the fluff - heck, excels at it. Playing a good paladin and not interfering too much with the usual party is quite the challenge. Please stay away from monks. Yes, the features sound great, and the damage is huge, but a monk essentially needs to be quite careful to stay alive as far as fighting is concerned. Not quite newbie material, at least if the party often fights mundane enemies. Ninjas might have a similar problem, but at least players have a good way of getting the !%^# out of nasty situations a few times per day. Duskblades might be quite good, if the player wants to have a taste of the magical system (if not what magic is really about). The class seems quite newbie-friendly, by and large. Hexblade is best avoided, however.
OneWinged4ngel 04-24-07, 03:50 PM	I would *not* recommend the Fighter, because taking in all the feat choices and options at once can be overwhelming. On top of that, you've gotta work pretty hard for them to do anything interesting past low level. Instead, I recommend the Rogue, because with 2 minutes you can teach a newbie how to do something that will make him instantly useful as a contributing party member in fights (Sneak Attack), will remain useful no matter how much you screw up his feat selection (the Rogue's class features are solid), and most of all... introduces the player to the entire game system in stride, instead of all at once. You learn how a variety of skills work as the situations come up, and you learn more about special combat maneuvers through experience. Moreover, you are gradually introduced to the aspects of the spellcasting system via UMD, without it all being dumped on you. You even get a feel for the different creature types and how to react to them. The first time a Rogue fights an ooze, he knows that he has to change up tactics against an ooze. Essentially, the Rogue is probably one of the best choices for a beginner because: 1) It is a solid learning experience that, at a fairly comfortable pace, can introduce players to just about the entirety of the D&D mechanics. 2) The player will be a solid and valuable member of the party no matter how much he messes up his build choices. By contrast, with the Fighter you run up and hit things, and you can seriously mess yourself up by making poor choices. If you want a melee character, the Barbarian is a more solid choice for beginners. Spellcasters are all fairly harder choices for a beginning character, since they have to learn and understand the most complex mechanical system in D&D: Spellcasting. Additionally, like with the Fighter, the options can be rather daunting. In the case of the Sorceror, poor planning on a first go will result in a poor spell selection, and the player will suffer.
MaximumHavoc 04-24-07, 07:13 PM	#1 Dragon Shaman - super easy to playing and HEALING! #2 Warlock - again, super easy to play #3 Warmage - similar to Sorceror, but prepackaged spell list that is less subtle than the Beguiler and Dread Necromancer spell lists. Also, all 3 of these classes are more "magical" than the barbarian, and magic often is the reason why people start playing D&D (i.e., FANTASY role play). just my 2 cents.