Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Starman IX 08-18-05, 11:01 PM	I'm no guru, put your input in. Barbarian: Two words. Frenzied. Berzerker. No reason to go to 20. Bard: Eh, I've never really played a Bard. Seems like it needs prestige badly. Cleric: Seems like it could go either way. I've heard Cleric 20 is good stuff, but there's good PrCs everywhere. Druid: See Cleric Fighter: Another either way. I'd ride it out to 20, even though it's bashed. Monk: Maybe I'm not looking hard enough, but I don't see any good Monk PrCs. Paladin: Never played one. Ranger: Yeah, good stuff for sticking here. Rogue: Good stuff all the way through, but some pretty god PrCs. Sorcerer: PrC. Quickly. Wizard: Wizard 20 = Doom.
Kurama Youko 08-19-05, 12:14 AM	Barbarian: Depends on what you want, no one really likes the Frenzy Berserker accept the DM whos using him as a grunt man for the BBEG or has him as the BBEG. Outside of that there are actually party oriented Barbarian Prestige classes that work well, like Bear Warrior or Battlerager. Then again in my opinion with feats like Extra Rage and in Forgotten Realms Tireless, Barbarian is pretty much a dip class anyway for a well rounded fighter. Bard: Can go to 20 if you dont wanna specialize in Magic or Combat. Works pretty well if you like the support role Fighter Type role. Cleric: Really depends on Campaign, if your DM tells you that their is gonna be a heavy fluxuation undead then straight cleric might be good in a core only campaign, but otherwise prestige classes will give you something else to grasp for, some of which still allow you to improve your turning. Druid: 1 of 2 classes that are actually good core wise from 1-20. Fighter: Unless there some feats out there I havent seen then fighter 2 or 4 is just about as much fighter as you'll ever need in a fighter type build. Monk: 2 of 2 classes that are actually good core wise from 1-20. Paladin: After 4th lv I'd multiclass into something else honestly, unless I was trying to get into a prestige class that did one thing, advance a my special mount to which then i would take paladin 5 then enter the prestige class. Ranger: Could be good from 1-20 but I'd still take a different prestige class oriented toward fighter types after 9th lv or maybe even earlier if I felt evasion was gonna be something i could afford later on with a magic item. With the book of exalted deeds you should almost always try to become that Ranger prestige class that gets favored enemy evil. Rogue: Multiclass as soon as possible, i mean into a prestige class that still gives search/disable device atleast. Sneak attack is great but just about every rogue prestige gives you a little bit of it anyway, and even now you can buy equipment that gives you more, so definitely think about it in this case. Sorcerer: unfortunately its a most as soon as 5th lv in some cases, (you can join mage of the arcane order by 5th lv.) But I'd never sacrifice a caster level for sorcerer spellcasting, its already bad enough you wait to 18th lv to cast 9th lv spells. Wizard: I'd say multiclass as soon as possible because those bonus feats are garbage in their mechanics, i mean prepared metamagic or item creation (one of those is something that the DM has specifically give time for in his campaign and the other is a guessing game I'd rather not play.)
Xeven the Mighty 08-19-05, 12:55 AM	Barbarian is great to 20, but it really shines with a fighter dip. Weapon Specialization is great, or, if you're high enough level when you dip, something like Improved Critical is great. I'd take a cleric to 20, but there are some nice PrC's that will give you caster level increases and abilities to boot. It's a mixed bag here, I guess. The druid is awesome to 20. I wouldn't do it any other way. I'm a wild shape fiend, and god help the DM that lets me use any published monster book I want. Wild shape is really way too powerful... Fighter... Fighter is not a class I'd take to 20. Even with Improved Weapon Specialization and Greater Weapon Specialization, he's still on a dip class or a spring board to a kick arse PrC. If you get to use Complete Warrior and any other fighter class splat books you want (Sword and Fist, Path of the Sword, etc), then maybe he's a candidate for the 20 level ride, but only in that case. Even then, a barbarian dip is a great idea. Monk. Bah, I hate monks! I removed them from the games I DM, so I wouldn't know. There is no reason for a paladin to go past level 5. There are PrC's that give way better abilities than more Smites a day. I dip for a couple levels of fighter before I grab a pally PrC, then I ride the PrC until the end. After that, I grab another PrC. Pally gets screwed after 5th. Rangers are cool to level 20, but there are some nice PrC's for them. Zen Archer has to be my favorite. The ride to level 20 is nice, though. Probably one of the best classes for that, actually... Especially if you can con the DM into letting you drop the spells for feats instead. If you can't, a PrC at 12th or so is usually a good idea, but staying for Hide In Plain Sight is also fun. Rogue... I usually stay until 10th level to get one of the cool special abilities, then a grab a PrC. If you grab a PrC that gives you more sneak attack dice, you can usually get better abilities than what the Rogue offers. He's not bad to 20, though. Just needs Poison Use, in my opinion. I'd PrC a Sorcerer or Wizard as soon as possible. There is no reason to go the whole way through with each. A PrC will usually give you a caster level increase every level, plus it'll give you some kick ass abilities. A straight sorcerer gets squat, and a strait wizard might as well get squat for all the bonus feats are worth.
Kolo 08-19-05, 01:19 AM	Barbarian. Two words; Tireless Rage. also, no chance of snapping and killing your comrades in an orgy of destruction FB-style, which admittedly is a bad thing for some people, but hardly the majority. Clerics... eh, they're pretty good just base. With no PrC to my liking available, I'd take him to 20 in a heartbeat. They lose little from taking prestige classes though, and stand to gain even more power. Druid... heh. the man who wouldn't take it to 20 is either a specialist or an idiot. Druidic power is far-reaching, widespread and hard-hitting. Fighter... no. Just... no. Level 12 at most. 8 feats are not worth it after that; you've got all the flexibility a warrior will ever need. Monk; Heck yeah! these guys are fun every level of play, and I wouldn't miss out on a moment of it. Paladin; Never ever multiclass with a paladin except in the most extraordinary circumstances or if a PrC offers advancement of paladin ailities. You've got far too much to lose, and you are basically saying that you're willing to adhere to the paladin's code without gaining it's full benefits, which is a problem in many groups seeing as how the code can be loosely interpreted by unscrupulous and punishing DM's. Besides, multiclassing demonstrates a lack of faith in-game, which is always bad and may be more trouble than it's worth. Rangers; either way is fine. I wouldn't mind the 20 at all. Hide in Plain Sight is worth it. Rogue... probably not, but that's because when I make a roguish character, I usually have an extremely specific concept in mind better served by multiclassing. Monk2/RogueX/Master Thrower and/or Invisible Blade is more my kind of style, or maybe some Shadowdancer/Dervish... Bard; straight to 20, barring perhaps one or two prestige classes in Complete Arcane. These guys are too fun to describe in mere words. Sorcerer; Never. I lose nothing by taking a prestige class except for the familiar, whose usefulness extends only as far as you have many personal range spells, and the sorcerer just doesn't have enough to take full advantage of it. (more on this in the wizard section.) I have done this to 20, and I hated every level after 8th. Up until that point, the sorcerer was massive fun though. Wizard; Now this on the other hand is pretty good. You get the extra feats, good class skills and most importantly incredible potential access to spells. The wizard can better make use of the familiar through the share spell function, which can be incredibly powerful. Polymorph becomes twice as deadly, shapechange likewise, Tenser's transformation is really good when polymorphed (and costs no additional components for your familiar) and all your personal buffs like shield and mage armor are also affecting your little familiar, which suddenly is much more threatening. Add some specific familiar boosting spells from Complete Warrior, keep in mind the range limitation and you're set. A lot of the time, though, your wizard is going to be following a much more specific concept, so prestige classes remove this function unless you spend a feat on it-which is unlikely. PrCing wizards have fewer loose feats than most.
Starman IX 08-19-05, 03:43 AM	Samurai: Unless you go Ronin, I believe it's a requirement(flavour-wise) to go 20 Hexblade: Seems neat, never played one. Swashbuckler: I'd go to 20, but then again, I don't have Stormwrack. Warlock: Yesah, 20 level goodness Warmage: Either Elemental Savant or all the way Wu Jen: An Oriental Wizard with restrictions. Never played one. Ninja: Is there anything worth not going 20 for? Scout: At least two levels of Ninja Spellthief: Sigh. Never played one. Complete Divine classes: Haven't even looked at
DuskyFruit 08-19-05, 05:05 AM	Barbarian: Barbarian 20 is quite nice and does not need a PrC, never ever go frenzied berserker I've never seen or heard of one who could survive it's first encounter. Bard: Any bard should specialize into seeker of the song or sublime chord when it can, it's not worth taking it beyond mid-levels. Cleric: Cleric is very powerful and do not need a PrC to be good enough, but it have got many great PrCs and therefore I would never take it to 20th level. Druid: Druid is definitely worth taking to 20, it gains many abilities and have the same power level that the cleric have. Fighter: Fighter is made for fulfilling PrC requirements it's definitely not worth taking to 20. Monk: I too have never seen an worthwhile monk PrC and monks keep gaining cool abilities, they should be taken to 20 without any multi-classing. Paladin: Paladins are ok, but after mid-levels they stop gaining anything special and so should find some paladin PrC when they reach that point Ranger: With the new 3.5 ranger the ranger is also very much worth taking to lvl 20, but there are also many cool PrCs that a ranger could take Rogue: Rogue is also worth taking all the way, it does have some cool PrCs but the best I've seen by now is the 5 levels guild thief who give the rogue a few more bonus feats, so I would take a few levels of guild thief here and there and then just take all the other levels as ordinary rogue. Sorcerer: The sorcerer really need a PrC as it is in player's handbook, but personally I hate sorcerers and so I won't talk too much about them. Wizard: Wizard can be taken to 20th level but I would very much prefere taking a prestige class as there is a great number of fantastic PrCs for wizards out there.
Thrall_of_Graz'zt 08-19-05, 08:35 PM	Does the Rogue even get anything at 20th level?
Nephlite 08-19-05, 09:04 PM	Rogues stop gaining abilities at level 19. So no, there is no reason to go Rogue 20, only Rogue 19. I'll try Psionic classes: Psion: You can go full 20 or try a prc class. Either way they are great fun. Psi-warrior: Similar to other casters but Prc like WarMind or Slayer (Illithid or SRD one) really work well with it too. Similar to a Fighter but worth 20. Somewhat a gamble if it better to go Prc class. SoulKnife: If they they had one in the non-splat books made by Wizard. HyperConsciousness has a Prc for the lonely soulknife though. Really cool one too. But otherwise have to take 20. Wilder: Again HyperConsciousness has Prc for it called Cerebral Rager (Think Goku going Super Saiyin flavor wise lol. You get bonuses to casting stat which is Charisma not physical brawn though). Very few other Prc mesh with Wild Surging. Straight 20 if no avialable HyperConscousness I think.
Starman IX 08-19-05, 09:10 PM	Nope. Nothing at 14 and 20 Edit: D'oh. Late.
Earthcrosser599 08-19-05, 11:36 PM	Barbarian: Can go either way. PrCs for them aren't bad and the class itself isn't bad. Frenzied Berzerker isn't a class, it's a player's attempt to powergame at the expense of the party. Bard: Another one you can choose and not go wrong. Cleric: Unless you're really into undead turning, I can't find too many reasons not to PrC, and even then there's Radiant Servant of Pelor stuff you can delve into. Druid: Why multiclass when you already get more abilites than you know what to do with? Fighter: 20th level fighters can do some crazy stuff, considering they're fighters. Sure, all you get are extra feats...it's all you got from level 1, so hey. Monks: Damage reduction 10/magic? WTF? Okay, what ISN'T going to have a magic weapon by 20th level? What a joke. Drunken Master and Kensei are the most common PrCs I see, and I can't say I've ever even seen a monk go past level 10ish. Paladin: I didn't know there WERE paladin's that gained more than 5 levels...I guess I learn something new every day. Ranger: In a campaign where once race or creature type is dominant, getting +10 on your checks against them can be really nice. Another class I rarely see being played with more than five or six levels. Rogue: 19th level, sure...haven't seen a level 20 rogue yet...usually 19 rogue 1 fighter or something like that. Sorcerer: PrC as soon as possible... Wizard: If you have no direction, straight wizard can work, but pretty much the same as a sorcerer...with a few extra feats.there's really not too much of a reason to remain a straight wizard instead of multiclassing a PrC with continued spellcasting. Classes like Archmage, Geometer, and others with incidental requirements give you a few more abilities and keep your spellcasting up. Ninja: Higher end abilites come a bit late, but Evasion is good and Ghost Walk can be fun. Scout: A continuous Freedom of Movement is awesome. Too bad you can buy a ring that does the same thing. Skirmish damage is weak and the AC bonus isn't all that great...go 20th level for flavor. Spellthief: Stealing SR is a lot of fun...the sneak attack damage they get is a little weak, but they have spells to back them up, something the Scout is lacking. Warlock: Improves continuously from 1st to 20th level and always gets something at each level. Warmage: The fact that they have class features sets them apart from wizards and sorcerers. Works well either way. Wu Jen: If the list of metamagic feats that Spell Secret can emulate were a bit more diverse, you could do alot with this class at high levels. As it is, I'd multiclass normally. Favored Soul: 20th level DR isn't a joke like the monk, and the ability to fly indefinitely is also cool. 20th level all the way. Shugenja: Same as a wizard or sorcerer. No new features makes the class bland as is. Spirit Shaman: Class features are a bit...odd...but at least they have them, and Favored of the Spirits is awesome. Hexblade: Ah, the arcane paladin. Cool abilities, a fighter's base attack bonus, bonus feats, spells...what a paladin should have been. Samurai: An ability that flat out doesn't work on 20+ HD creatures is a poor 20th level ability. Nice if your DM likes to have 20th level characters fight unadvanced goblins and such. Swashbuckler: I usually only dip 3 levels of this, but both Weakening and Wounding Critical with a Wounding weapon can be very cool.
Kurama Youko 08-19-05, 11:46 PM	Favored Soul: 20th level DR isn't a joke like the monk, and the ability to fly indefinitely is also cool. 20th level all the way. Someone does understand! :weep: I feel relieved.