Best bard prestige class? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best bard prestige class? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
jarvis02
01-22-06, 04:12 PM What is the best bard prestige class and what book is it in?
Votan
01-22-06, 04:17 PM What is the best bard prestige class and what book is it in?

I am a huge fan of the Sublime Chord in the Complete Arcane. It makes the bard effectively a 4 skill point per level class (buying ranks to enter plus SC is a 4 sp/lvl class). But it gives 9th level spells at 19th level and makes the bard a competitive caster with the sorcerer. Bard song weakens a bit in later levels but can be used to pump up caster level so you'll always find uses for bardic music.

I am mildly in favor of mixing it with a level or two of Barbarian . ..
ChrisAsmadi
01-22-06, 04:44 PM Eldritch Knight is good if you want your Bard to be better at combat, for reduced Bard song. And I second Sublime Chord, which is a very nice PrC.
Todd
01-22-06, 05:17 PM For a song focused Bard, Seeker of the Song.

For a spell focused Bard, Sublime Chord.

For a buff focused Bard, War Weaver.

For a skill focused Bard, Exemplar.

Lots of others are fine too. All depends on what you want the Bard's focus to be. Straight Class is probably the best for the generalist.
CaoSlayer
01-22-06, 05:19 PM Eldritch Knight is good if you want your Bard to be better at combat, for reduced Bard song. And I second Sublime Chord, which is a very nice PrC.

Eldritch is crap for bard, he is not only losing just bard songs, also says good bye to two caster levels at least, 4 skill points per level...

IMO there is not better prc, since the variety of the core bard, every bardic prc focuses in one aspect of the bard weaking other, so it is depend of your objetives...

If you have a very low cha bard focused on melee, the best prc it is the warchanter.
If you wants a singer focused on support, there is the virtuoso.
if you wants a evil singer than affects the enemies, there is the diresinger
If you wants a rounded singer bard, there is the seeker of the song
and if you wants a caster bard, the sublime chord it is godlike.

There is not ultimate bardic prc, but without doubt there is a ultimate prc for a pure caster, singer or combat bard.
CzarGarrett
01-23-06, 09:52 AM Personally, I love the concept behind the Fochluran Lyrist.

But the PrC's in CAdv can be pretty good, depending on what theme/build you have going.
Gaia
02-01-06, 08:07 PM I like the Diresinger concept from "Libris Mortis". :devil:
I also like the Dragonsong Lyrist from "Draconomicon". :dragon:
Ralphius_Maximus
02-01-06, 10:23 PM I don't think you can go past the Sublime Chord. It carries on with all the strengths of the traditional Bard and increase the spellcasting by a massive amount. You still need to be careful which spells you take, but that's true of all casters.
Nephew of Istvan
02-01-06, 11:08 PM Yea, my Bard is definatly going Sublime Chord. Our group has no sorcerer/wizard, only a Monk, Cleric, Paladin, and myself, the Bard. I'm filling up the gap in magical might by going Sublime Chord. I think the first spell i'm going to learn is Evervate. I love that spell.
Jaeron Dalur
02-01-06, 11:50 PM My favorite Bard PrC is the Virtuoso from Complete Adventurer. It builds on (or offers alternatives to, depending on how you play it) the bard's bardic music skills while only loosing one level of spellcasting ability. It takes no feats to join. Though if you are a straight bard you will need to have 5 levels of bard to get the intimidate ranks.
Ralphius_Maximus
02-02-06, 08:01 AM Yea, my Bard is definatly going Sublime Chord. Our group has no sorcerer/wizard, only a Monk, Cleric, Paladin, and myself, the Bard. I'm filling up the gap in magical might by going Sublime Chord. I think the first spell i'm going to learn is Evervate. I love that spell.

Not the biggest fan, although I admit it has it's uses. I wouldn't use one of my (few) spell slots on that one. Now, Cure Serious, Dimension Door, Greater Invisibility, these are more my speed. I'd be more inclined to go for Ice Storm if I wanted direct damage, but still more likely to take something in the area of Polymorph or Scrying.

Still it's all a matter of style. Your way is going to be every bit as effective and no doubt equally enjoyable.
DwarfPcfan
02-02-06, 10:59 AM Bards rate in my mind as one of the most versatile classes ever made. with all the variety of PrC out there, I find it really hard to choose sometimes but if i had to stop somewhere, I'd got with Sublime Chord and Virtuoso. Sublime chord brings your spell list up to 9th level spells and it does not hurt your music all that much. Alone, this prestige class completly changes the role the bard could have in a party and simply put 9th level spells for a bard is F***** awesome when combined with well chosen feats.

Now if you really want to have fun with bardic music, Virtuoso is the way. It simply opens up your music to completly diffrent regions. Sure it does not hit the mark of Seeker of the Song on many issues but I simply love the feel of actualy being a virtuoso. Plus, with feats like requiem, green singer ( I know it's not the feats real name, I mean the feat that allows you to affect plants), lingering son, jarring song. It simply makes what was a tool at first into a key. I've seen party tactics complely change when the bard suddenly had access to virtuoso abilities and they wanted to fully enjoy them.

"MY name is the Count of Monte Cristo but my friends call me Edmon Dantes"
legowarrior
02-02-06, 11:33 AM Personally, when making a sublime chord, I take 3 levels of Gnome Paragon and focus on Illusions.
Nephew of Istvan
02-02-06, 12:47 PM Not the biggest fan, although I admit it has it's uses. I wouldn't use one of my (few) spell slots on that one. Now, Cure Serious, Dimension Door, Greater Invisibility, these are more my speed. I'd be more inclined to go for Ice Storm if I wanted direct damage, but still more likely to take something in the area of Polymorph or Scrying.

Still it's all a matter of style. Your way is going to be every bit as effective and no doubt equally enjoyable.

Well, since Sublime Chords can learn spells from either the Bard or Sor/Wiz spell lists, i'm able to learn Cure Critical Wounds (Serious is a 3rd level spell, already have it), Dimension Door, Greater Invisibility, Summon Monster IV, Unluck *From complete Arcane*, and Enervation.

Since on the first level of Sublime chord, i have two bard spells and two Sublime Chord spells of 4th level (and one of 5th level), i'll have Dimension Door and Summon Monster IV from my Bardic spells, and Enervation and Greater Invisibility from Sublime Chord.

The reason i picked enervation is becuase i'm a Bard. I'm never going to be able to take the hits as well as a melee class like the Barbarian, Figther, Paladin, or even Monk. So, if i cant take the hits outright, i need a way to make the hits hurt less. Thats why i'm picking Enervation (and Unlucky, but i'll get to that later). Enervation, as you should know, is 1d4 negative levels, which give a cumulative penalty of -1 to all skill and ability checks, attack rolls, and saves, -5 hit points each, and -1 effective level for class abilities that depend on level. Plus they loose one spell of their highest available slot, so it's even useful against casters. And, the rules we go by do allow ranged touch attacks to crit and do double effect, so theres a chance i'll do 2d4 negative levels instead.

Unluck is also one of those fun spells. Whenever the afflicted creature does ANYTHING that requires a dice roll, they have to reroll and take the worse roll. Attack rolls, Damage rolls, skill checks, saving throws, all of it gets worse. A weapon that crits on a 20 must roll two 20s in a row to threaten a crit, then roll two hits in a row to actually crit.
Malkonnen
02-02-06, 03:21 PM Unluck is also one of those fun spells. Whenever the afflicted creature does ANYTHING that requires a dice roll, they have to reroll and take the worse roll. Attack rolls, Damage rolls, skill checks, saving throws, all of it gets worse. A weapon that crits on a 20 must roll two 20s in a row to threaten a crit, then roll two hits in a row to actually crit.

I too, love Unluck. And I feel I should mention, as of the release of the spell compendium it has been errata'ed to be a 3rd level bard spell! :D
ninjarabbit
02-02-06, 04:40 PM With the SC you can make an effective bard-warrior, bard-divine caster, or bard-rogue.

For example;

bard8/fighter1/spellsword1/sublimechord2/eldritchknight8 for BAB 16 and 9th level spells

bard7/mindbender1/urpriest2/sublimechord2/mystictheurge8 for 9th level divine and arcane spells

rogue3/bard7/SC2/arcanetrickster8 for 9th level spells, rogue skills and sneak attack

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jarvis02 01-22-06, 04:12 PM	What is the best bard prestige class and what book is it in?
Votan 01-22-06, 04:17 PM	What is the best bard prestige class and what book is it in? I am a huge fan of the Sublime Chord in the Complete Arcane. It makes the bard effectively a 4 skill point per level class (buying ranks to enter plus SC is a 4 sp/lvl class). But it gives 9th level spells at 19th level and makes the bard a competitive caster with the sorcerer. Bard song weakens a bit in later levels but can be used to pump up caster level so you'll always find uses for bardic music. I am mildly in favor of mixing it with a level or two of Barbarian . ..
ChrisAsmadi 01-22-06, 04:44 PM	Eldritch Knight is good if you want your Bard to be better at combat, for reduced Bard song. And I second Sublime Chord, which is a very nice PrC.
Todd 01-22-06, 05:17 PM	For a song focused Bard, Seeker of the Song. For a spell focused Bard, Sublime Chord. For a buff focused Bard, War Weaver. For a skill focused Bard, Exemplar. Lots of others are fine too. All depends on what you want the Bard's focus to be. Straight Class is probably the best for the generalist.
CaoSlayer 01-22-06, 05:19 PM	Eldritch Knight is good if you want your Bard to be better at combat, for reduced Bard song. And I second Sublime Chord, which is a very nice PrC. Eldritch is crap for bard, he is not only losing just bard songs, also says good bye to two caster levels at least, 4 skill points per level... IMO there is not better prc, since the variety of the core bard, every bardic prc focuses in one aspect of the bard weaking other, so it is depend of your objetives... If you have a very low cha bard focused on melee, the best prc it is the warchanter. If you wants a singer focused on support, there is the virtuoso. if you wants a evil singer than affects the enemies, there is the diresinger If you wants a rounded singer bard, there is the seeker of the song and if you wants a caster bard, the sublime chord it is godlike. There is not ultimate bardic prc, but without doubt there is a ultimate prc for a pure caster, singer or combat bard.
CzarGarrett 01-23-06, 09:52 AM	Personally, I love the concept behind the Fochluran Lyrist. But the PrC's in CAdv can be pretty good, depending on what theme/build you have going.
Gaia 02-01-06, 08:07 PM	I like the Diresinger concept from "Libris Mortis". :devil: I also like the Dragonsong Lyrist from "Draconomicon". :dragon:
Ralphius_Maximus 02-01-06, 10:23 PM	I don't think you can go past the Sublime Chord. It carries on with all the strengths of the traditional Bard and increase the spellcasting by a massive amount. You still need to be careful which spells you take, but that's true of all casters.
Nephew of Istvan 02-01-06, 11:08 PM	Yea, my Bard is definatly going Sublime Chord. Our group has no sorcerer/wizard, only a Monk, Cleric, Paladin, and myself, the Bard. I'm filling up the gap in magical might by going Sublime Chord. I think the first spell i'm going to learn is Evervate. I love that spell.
Jaeron Dalur 02-01-06, 11:50 PM	My favorite Bard PrC is the Virtuoso from Complete Adventurer. It builds on (or offers alternatives to, depending on how you play it) the bard's bardic music skills while only loosing one level of spellcasting ability. It takes no feats to join. Though if you are a straight bard you will need to have 5 levels of bard to get the intimidate ranks.
Ralphius_Maximus 02-02-06, 08:01 AM	Yea, my Bard is definatly going Sublime Chord. Our group has no sorcerer/wizard, only a Monk, Cleric, Paladin, and myself, the Bard. I'm filling up the gap in magical might by going Sublime Chord. I think the first spell i'm going to learn is Evervate. I love that spell. Not the biggest fan, although I admit it has it's uses. I wouldn't use one of my (few) spell slots on that one. Now, Cure Serious, Dimension Door, Greater Invisibility, these are more my speed. I'd be more inclined to go for Ice Storm if I wanted direct damage, but still more likely to take something in the area of Polymorph or Scrying. Still it's all a matter of style. Your way is going to be every bit as effective and no doubt equally enjoyable.
DwarfPcfan 02-02-06, 10:59 AM	Bards rate in my mind as one of the most versatile classes ever made. with all the variety of PrC out there, I find it really hard to choose sometimes but if i had to stop somewhere, I'd got with Sublime Chord and Virtuoso. Sublime chord brings your spell list up to 9th level spells and it does not hurt your music all that much. Alone, this prestige class completly changes the role the bard could have in a party and simply put 9th level spells for a bard is F***** awesome when combined with well chosen feats. Now if you really want to have fun with bardic music, Virtuoso is the way. It simply opens up your music to completly diffrent regions. Sure it does not hit the mark of Seeker of the Song on many issues but I simply love the feel of actualy being a virtuoso. Plus, with feats like requiem, green singer ( I know it's not the feats real name, I mean the feat that allows you to affect plants), lingering son, jarring song. It simply makes what was a tool at first into a key. I've seen party tactics complely change when the bard suddenly had access to virtuoso abilities and they wanted to fully enjoy them. "MY name is the Count of Monte Cristo but my friends call me Edmon Dantes"
legowarrior 02-02-06, 11:33 AM	Personally, when making a sublime chord, I take 3 levels of Gnome Paragon and focus on Illusions.
Nephew of Istvan 02-02-06, 12:47 PM	Not the biggest fan, although I admit it has it's uses. I wouldn't use one of my (few) spell slots on that one. Now, Cure Serious, Dimension Door, Greater Invisibility, these are more my speed. I'd be more inclined to go for Ice Storm if I wanted direct damage, but still more likely to take something in the area of Polymorph or Scrying. Still it's all a matter of style. Your way is going to be every bit as effective and no doubt equally enjoyable. Well, since Sublime Chords can learn spells from either the Bard or Sor/Wiz spell lists, i'm able to learn Cure Critical Wounds (Serious is a 3rd level spell, already have it), Dimension Door, Greater Invisibility, Summon Monster IV, Unluck From complete Arcane, and Enervation. Since on the first level of Sublime chord, i have two bard spells and two Sublime Chord spells of 4th level (and one of 5th level), i'll have Dimension Door and Summon Monster IV from my Bardic spells, and Enervation and Greater Invisibility from Sublime Chord. The reason i picked enervation is becuase i'm a Bard. I'm never going to be able to take the hits as well as a melee class like the Barbarian, Figther, Paladin, or even Monk. So, if i cant take the hits outright, i need a way to make the hits hurt less. Thats why i'm picking Enervation (and Unlucky, but i'll get to that later). Enervation, as you should know, is 1d4 negative levels, which give a cumulative penalty of -1 to all skill and ability checks, attack rolls, and saves, -5 hit points each, and -1 effective level for class abilities that depend on level. Plus they loose one spell of their highest available slot, so it's even useful against casters. And, the rules we go by do allow ranged touch attacks to crit and do double effect, so theres a chance i'll do 2d4 negative levels instead. Unluck is also one of those fun spells. Whenever the afflicted creature does ANYTHING that requires a dice roll, they have to reroll and take the worse roll. Attack rolls, Damage rolls, skill checks, saving throws, all of it gets worse. A weapon that crits on a 20 must roll two 20s in a row to threaten a crit, then roll two hits in a row to actually crit.
Malkonnen 02-02-06, 03:21 PM	Unluck is also one of those fun spells. Whenever the afflicted creature does ANYTHING that requires a dice roll, they have to reroll and take the worse roll. Attack rolls, Damage rolls, skill checks, saving throws, all of it gets worse. A weapon that crits on a 20 must roll two 20s in a row to threaten a crit, then roll two hits in a row to actually crit. I too, love Unluck. And I feel I should mention, as of the release of the spell compendium it has been errata'ed to be a 3rd level bard spell! :D
ninjarabbit 02-02-06, 04:40 PM	With the SC you can make an effective bard-warrior, bard-divine caster, or bard-rogue. For example; bard8/fighter1/spellsword1/sublimechord2/eldritchknight8 for BAB 16 and 9th level spells bard7/mindbender1/urpriest2/sublimechord2/mystictheurge8 for 9th level divine and arcane spells rogue3/bard7/SC2/arcanetrickster8 for 9th level spells, rogue skills and sneak attack